i guess no one knows or has an opinion?

 

The le mans motors I have read up on all use them.
People say that if you use forged pistons you don't need them. I can see that logic. I would be more concerned with the quality of the piston though, not so much the material but the metal composition (hot spots, etc).
What piston/ring are you using?

 

I've read all of that as well.

I was looking at wiseco's for pistons. Unless you have another suggestion.

 

If it were me I would put them in. I've run blocks with them and without them. I had problems on the block without them. I can't directly relate my problems to the oil squirters as there were many other differences as well, but I can't help but wonder if the squirters would have helped alleviate the issues.

The way I see it the only real downside is the cost of putting them in. I don't know how hard/expensive that might be but I can't imagine it would be too bad where the possible upside is increased longevity of your engine.

Some people say that they cost you oil pressure but I have tons of oil pressure using a stock K20A2 oil pump on a TSX block. 30 psi at idle with the oil at 180.

 

The only time that you will see a lower oil pressure is if there is a failure of the oil jet's internal check spring at low rpm's. I have seen the oil jets fail and remain open at idle bleeding almost all the oil pressure from reaching the main and rod bearings.

IIRC the oil jet spring is rated at approx 24psi cutoff. If I was building a DD then I would retain them even with forged pistons, I would plug them on a race only build.

Another point is that if the oil jets do fail and bleed off idle oil pressure it will also damage the valvetrain especially if you have big cams or stronger than normal valvesprings.

 

This is what I wanted to hear.

I didn't pay much for the block, so If it doesn't work I'm not out a lot. I'm going to move forward and do more research to get these installed if possible.

 

i have wondered the same thing about these. I agree, if you are spending the time and money on the build, you may as well do the squirters. they'll only add to the engine life. let us know how it goes and what it cost. I always thought you had to go with a k24a2 block to get the squirters.

 

I would like to learn more on this.

 

I think, key term:THINK, there is a thread from Ron on one of the DEV motors on how to install oil squirters in a block without them and how to modify the squirters to increase oil pressure.

Sorry I couldnt get you a block CJ, a decent one atleast, but im glad to read you got one:up:

 

I'll have to search. I'm going to try, I will have to pull a lot of resources to do this and I don't believe it will be a simple task.

No problem colin, actually found this one down the street from work, so it worked out for me. :up:

 

Difference in blocks for those that haven't seen it:

 

I have two K24a4 blocks myself and i'm in the process of building one and I'm going to try to install the squirters. I plan to take the bare block to a machine shop and have them mill off the tops of the mounting bosses to create a good flat spot for the squirters to seal to. They use a fairly standard banjo bolt style fitting but the seal needs to be tight to avoid loosing oil pressure. The thread is an 8mm x .75mm and you can find that tap at Victor Machine on-line for about $4 although they have a $15 minimum order. I just ordered a few carbide burrs to get to that ammount. Cant have too many carbide burrs LOL

As far as the squirters lowering the oil pressure, I really don't think that will be a problem. The banjo bolts that hold them to the block have an internal chack valve that prevents oil flow to the squirters below a given pressure. I want this engine to last and I won't be reving it to hell and gone but I want to be sure that oil is getting everywhere it needs to go. There must be a good reason that Honda puts the squirters on ALL of their high performance engines.

I will also be doing the Hytech oil line modification to the #5 cam tower to ensure adequate oil supply to the valvetrain and I will be replacing the chain tensioner with the Hybrid racing one. Like I said, I want this engine to last FOREVER

 

What is the hytech oil line mod consist of?

 

My understanding is that John (the Hytech guru of all things Honda) machines a hole in the side of the #5 cam tower that feeds oil directly to the cam journals. A #3 braided AN line is then plumbed into that from the oil pressure sender. This gives an additional oil feed to the valvetrain which can be necessary when using bigger cams or stiffer valve springs. Honda Tuning had an article on it a while back. I'll try to find it on Google and post a link.

Also, if you like road racing / HPDE or even aggressive autoX you really need to have a baffled oil pan. I have experienced the "red light of death" a few times at VIR and even some times while taking sharp right hand freeway on ramps. I think that is what lead to the untimely demise of my last K20

 

I have the mod done to my IPS cammed A2/Z3 hybrid. There is also a modification to the rocker shafts that needs to be done and machining of the #5 cam cap and base as well as the exterior fitting added to the #5 cam cap. There is also plugs installed on the #2 cam base where the old oil supply originated from, this last step isnt specifically required from what John told me during one of our conversations and I believe John no longer blocks the old oil feed in the #2 cam base.

 

Havent found the original article but here is a thread from way back that talks about the cam tower mod. I e-mailed John a few months ago and he's still doing them.

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10000&highlight=ERL&page=6

 

Here it is. Doncha just love Google :heart::heart::heart::heart:

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/htup_0806_honda_oil_pump_upgrades/index.html

 

awesome article. Thank you.

 

you dont need them with forged pistons. Ive never used them on built k motor. i plug them on every build.

 

From what i've been reading and looking at both motors. I feel it will be more beneficial to have them than not have them. Why wouldn't you want to cool things off and have more lubrication? Even with forged pistons, they will help increase the life of the motor.

 

Do they have a site where you can send your stuff to get modified?

 

Not that I am aware of no.

 

Damn, I would want to do that to my oil pump once I get some new valvetrain in my motor

 

dammit dude, i was all set and ready to not worry about doing the squirters in my k24a1 build but now you have me 2nd guessing. ill be watching this thread closely.

 

after reading all this about oil squirter can some one tell me when you do a k20 k24a2 with oil squirter build do you have to modify anything else on the head to make it work or does the squirters work of the oil pump and pressure by it self with no other mods needed. if this is so then a frank swap should be fairly stragiht forward with the head swaps right . correct me if i'm wrong..

oh and like some one says in here that you'll lose oil pressure if you don't block off the oil squirters, well i remember reading in the 8th gen civic forum and some guy was doing a k20/k24a2 swap and he specifically say to bolck off the the squirters or you will regret..hummm i personally belive that oil squriters will help the motor to last over the years to come( motor longevity).please help.

 

The k24a2 there is no mods needed for a k20 head.

Did he take the squirters out and forget about it?

 

so fora built motor, u mean longevity as in lastin years (more then 5) or like less time?

 

i was told by some very trustworthy builders that the squirters weren't really a big deal not to have.

 

as long as it can last with as much abuse as it will take. if a motor can last 5 to 10 years that means that the motor has been well taken care of..

 

Before, I was kind of ambivalent on squirters. Didn't think they were necessary for motors with forged internals since forged internals can take more heat without issue.

However, with all the evolutions that my build has been through, I think there is some benefit to having squirters even with forged pistons. If the peak piston temps stay cooler, you can run tighter clearances, which usually means longer life. I'm sure squirters, along with using cast material, are a key reason why piston to wall clearances can be so tight on stock motors. My next build will have squirters installed with the Mahle 4032 alloy pistons to allow me to keep the piston to wall clearances as tight as possible. The goal is to achieve OEM like life span with a built motor.

 

how would you be able to determine exactly how tight? i mean how can you determine difference in temp /w squierters vs. temp w/o??

Just gonna guesstimate? but you probably wouldn't be too far off even if you did. But how significant would the negated clearance be?

 

Update:

I've got a buddy who is going to do the machine work for me to get them in. I will update when I have more updates, but I'm definitely going to put them in with forged internals.

 

If you keep building the same motor with difference clearances and kept everything else the same, you would probaly end up with enough data to support your #1 choice for clearances for max power or max life etc. These 2 are different.

 

Is having the rods EDM-drilled a viable alternative, both in function and cost?

 

what are the mods to put oil squirters on a K24a1 block?