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Drag Cartel 3.2's

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#62 · (Edited)
Mine droped a valve 2 weeks ago. Ran 3.2's with supertech springs/retainers for about 4 mounts. But i used it for everything, daily driving, drag strip. Finally street tuned it on e85 and droped a valve a month later. Maybe I was to ruff on the stock k24a2/k20 8400 rpm everyday.lol

Surprisingly the 130,xxx mi 04 tsx stock rod bearings are fine, and didn't jump timing, cylinder 2 exhaust valve dropped. The k20 head i bought was from a supercharged rsx, May also be the reason the valves were weak?
 
#64 ·
Lol pardon my english. Getting to old to try to keep up with 2 language's. Finished taking everything apart today. Definitely weak exhoust valve. The keepers were good on exhoust side but on intake side were worn. Proubably due to bigger valves.

The cams, valvesprings/retainers and tsx crank are steel good. I got a stock k20a2 siting in garage. Good idea to run those 3.2's on k20? Or should I build a k24 again. Or just buy a stock JDM k24a. Decisions decisions.
 
#66 ·
davinadze said:
Will definitely upgrade to new exhoust valves next project. And new keepers on intake side at least if running the 3.2 cams.
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Sure it dropped a valve or did your piston come apart. It looks exactly like mine did minus the head a valve being chopped off. Mine all 4 valves were bent to hell but nothing broke off. But I pulled the head and there was no piston to be found.
 
#67 ·
Everything points to snapped valve first then destroying the piston while bending other 3 valves. As you can see in picture that the the snapped valve stem is completely straight, compared to the other 3 that have bend stems.

Seems like exhaust valves take the most abuse on cars from heat cycles etc. but the dc3.2 cams ran great with stock k24/k20 in 2000 civic sedan. Ran 12.5@112.6 mph, baby shifting the tsx gears (needed a better clutch). Was gonna hit 11's with street tuned e85, and velocity stack, but track season closed.:door:
 
#68 · (Edited)
davinadze said:
Everything points to snapped valve first then destroying the piston while bending other 3 valves. As you can see in picture that the the snapped valve stem is completely straight, compared to the other 3 that have bend stems.

Seems like exhaust valves take the most abuse on cars from heat cycles etc. but the dc3.2 cams ran great with stock k24/k20 in 2000 civic sedan. Ran 12.5@112.6 mph, baby shifting the tsx gears (needed a better clutch). Was gonna hit 11's with street tuned e85, and velocity stack, but track season closed.:door:
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What were you doing when it happened. Chance that valve sheered clean off on first impact. I've seen a fair amount of dropped valves and usually there is a piston still in the bore and also the other valves while beat up, won't be bent cause they would be closed at any point of impact from debris. I think you lost a piston. Stock cast pistons can't handle the RPM people turn these things to.
I had RS pistons in mine, and had about 500 miles on the motor total (track only car, so that's like 4 weekends and LOTS of dyno pulls). I had the piston come apart at 8100 rpm right as a tapped the limiter. I now have wiesco's but I've only put 47 miles on it.
 
#69 · (Edited)
I did a 3rd gear pull from 50mph to 8400 rpm. Then heard engine noise, trew it in neutral engine died.
Mrsideways would you share your motor build specs or is there a link somewhere on here? where you running dc3.2's? I also had knock count with those 3.2 cams and supertech springs/retainers, no mater what i did, took away timing, added timing, and settled that it mostly was false knock from loud valve train. That's one of the reasons i tuned to e85 just to be on the safe side.
 
#70 · (Edited)
davinadze said:
I did a 3rd gear pull from 50mph to 8400 rpm. Then heard engine noise, trew it in neutral engine died.
Mrsideways would you share your motor build specs or is there a link somewhere on here? where you running dc3.2's? I also had knock count with those 3.2 cams and supertech springs/retainers, no mater what i did, took away timing, added timing, and settled that it mostly was false knock from loud valve train. That's one of the reasons i tuned to e85 just to be on the safe side.
Click to expand...
Well that's almost exactly how mine came apart. I was on track and this was about lap 6 of a little over a min lap came out of a corner ran it to the top of 3rd, tapped the limiter and kablamo.

That motor was 12:1 RS pistons. Carrillo Rods, Dry Sump, DC 4's cams team 4 piston head with ferrera valves and valve springs. There is nothing left of that. It's now a Table in a buddies living room. It was run on MS109 only so no knock issues. Made 272whp but it's RWD in an S2000. After I tore it apart I found slight cracking in the #3 piston at the piston pin. So it wasn't long till it came apart too.

New Motor is E85.
 
#72 ·
SickSilver_ep3 said:
mr sideways. if you are running cast pistons and a valve breaks the piston will be gone and turned into molten balls found in the oil pan lol.

forged piston will stay in the bore and take the beating.
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interesting. Well that's not what happened on mine cause all the valves were still in the head.
 
#73 · (Edited)
That sucks, especially when you have a built engine, good whp number to for a rear wheel drive car to. Are you ruining same cams in your new motor? used any parts from old motor? If its not a secret whats your new engine specks?

Im thinking to just drop the 3.2's in my k20a2 engine and experimenting how long it will last with e85.lol You think those pistons will handle 9500 rpm?
I love my k-swamped sleeper civic vs my Lexus IS-F with Bolton's, that im driving now soon to be my wife's daily driver, after i turn it all back to stock.lol
 
#74 ·
davinadze said:
That sucks, especially when you have a built engine, good whp number to for a rear wheel drive car to. Are you ruining same cams in your new motor? used any parts from old motor? If its not a secret whats your new engine specks?

Im thinking to just drop the 3.2's in my k20a2 engine and experimenting how long it will last with e85.lol You think those pistons will handle 9500 rpm?
I love my k-swamped sleeper civic vs my Lexus IS-F with Bolton's, that im driving now soon to be my wife's daily driver, after i turn it all back to stock.lol
Click to expand...
The powerband on the old motor wanted to be over 8000 as it was still climbing at 8100 for the limtier. So I tried Skunk 2 ultra 2's. Since the head got trashed I had a head porter port my RBB head to 318 cfm. I also went with Wiesco 13.7:1 pistons. It made 9 more hp but a ton more tq. 40 ft/lbs at some spots in the RPM band. I talked to the guys at Team 4 piston and decided to go back to one of their heads and try their RR3 Cams as I still feel like the car feels flat and lazy under 6k. I'm putting those parts on next weekend.
 
#78 ·
davinadze said:
...keepers were good on exhoust side but on intake side were worn...
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What kind of wear is it? Shear, friction, ...or a picture of the worn keepers?

davinadze said:
...Good idea to run those 3.2's on k20?
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I know only one test of an 86x86 engine with those cams by Advanced Tuned Performance: https://www.facebook.com/Advancetun...ancetunedperformance/photos/pcb.784596848290111/784596834956779/?type=3&theater I am a bit skeptic about if this was a DC 3.2, as the duration fit's for the 86x86 engine, but the lift is really high on both, intake and exhaust, and lead to a big cross section increase after the throat of the K20 port, which is for my experience not good for a stock setup...so I am a bit surprised about it and still skeptic if this were DC 3.2 cams. Maybe someone know the owner of that engine, which could verify the result. But hey, give it a trial, you probably are the first here reporting about 86x86 + DC 3.2 :D

Markus
 
#79 ·
an2ny888 said:
mrsideways what component do you attribute the increase in torque to? the cams, head or the pistons? 40 ft/lbs should make it feel like a different car
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Extra Compression, and Being able to lower the Vtec engagement. on the DC4's Vtec was 6500 or 6600. The New Motor has Vtec at 5500 and the tq difference between 5500 and 6500 is very large. On track there are 3 corners I come out of out of Vtec.... Or I run a lower gear and hit the shift right on the rumble strips. I've run the data and bogging away in the taller gear is faster. So I'd like to get Vtec down in the 4's and have a bunch more pull out of the slow corners.

Video of it on Sebring
http://youtu.be/DnfiAbYbSUY
 
#80 · (Edited)
I have seen mildly modded 86x86 with stock compression on DC 2.2... and the power band really sucked. It was like it dropped its balls.

So 3.2 or elite endurance would really need extremely modded K20 to work. And the duration of these cams is in my opinion too short for this motor.

Second thing - I DON NOT recommend using supertech springs in a motor that revs as high as 9500 rpm. They just die.
 
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