@LotusElise forgot to write it. I have edited post now. Skunk is blue and ram horn is red

 

Thanks, very helpfully.

 

Hi guys. Newbie to K series here. Just want to share mods and dyno sheet here.

Motor: (Stock) K24A block from Odyssey Absolute, K20AR RBC head (stock) from CL7 Euro R
Header: 421 Super Race header stainless steel, collector 2.5 inches
Cams: stock K20A CL7 Euro R, RBC VTC
Intake: stock RBC intake, stock throttle body CL7 Euro R, open pod 3 inch air filter
Exhaust: 2.5 inches mild steel, 2x2.5 inch resonator, straight through 2.5 inch muffler
Tranny: stock CL7 Euro R ASP3 6 speed 4.764 final drive
Misc Mods: ecu custom remapped, tuned to 97 RON, exedy 4 puck clutch set, Fd2R flywheel.
Track info: nil info as of yet. a daily driver.

 

Just want to share mods and dyno sheet here.

Thanks for sharing your new engine setup and dyno result. Interesting to see the "PS" power unit (1.36/1.34 factor over hp) which is used mainly in German spoken areas. The kgm torque unit is often used in the Asia area, also here in Europe (France).

I've tuned some engines in your region (Philippines, Singapore), so I know the issues with the high IAT and high humidity affecting power. But anyway, I would be interested in the WOT log and calibration, if you don't mind to share.

 

Understood. It's quite common in your area to use more modern technology to enter the ECU. While in the USDM and EUDM K-series engine scene the Emulator technology has still the biggest portion. If you look into e.g. the brands, using a BOSCH ECU the OBD interface tuning stuff is common.

 

Finally, everything is done 😁... so stock Accord cl9 / k24a3 engine (K24a3 is identical to pre face lift K24a2 in TSX)

191hp (Blue):
is stock car

227hp (Red):
serge header + no cat + custom induction (my design) +kn drop in filter+ reflash

254hp (Black):
same as above +
j35 tb ported entry (done by me)
Skunk2 ultra street copy ported and head port matched (done by me)
70mm custom single exhaust done by me
Thermal gasket
50 vtc
K24z3 intake cam
RDX 410 injector
Catch can
Tb coolant by pass
Vtec @ 4100rpm redline 7700 ish rpm.
Custom map
Valve lash 0.2 intake / 0.25 exhaust
(Ps. air is passing thru 4 "v. stacks" before hitting valve.)

With better intake manifold, better header + R oil pump there can be had 10-15hp more. Too bad I didn't know much when I started this project otherwise result would be much more impressive.



And Acceleration data

Massive acceleration improvement over the stock car.

Ps. I asked Revo to overlap all pulls on and sent them file names and if they are nice enough we'll get to see torque curves as I don't want to add them via paint method.

 

Thanks for sharing your results @Kowalski999.

serge header + no cat + custom induction (my design) +kn drop in filter+ reflash

Was this an individual tune from another car used to flash your ECU?

Skunk2 ultra street copy ported and head port matched (done by me)

What did the porting include regarding areas which were ported?

Massive acceleration improvement over the stock car.

Yeap, 13.75 s@100-200 km/h is quite good. A friend of mine was at 14.20 s@100-200 km/h with an stock longblock (except cams) and a modified RSP IM on 70 mm TB, but on a 1270 kg EP3 chassis. The Accord is about 200 kg heavier, thence the result sounds really good to me.

 

1. It was generic flash that serge bo is selling and scaming people with. The one that when adding mods to it likes to melt pistons lol.
On that one igt is 25.5, afr was 0.95 at 5500rpm than tapers to 0.91. That is after those mods that I listed at 227hp graf.
Just to mentions he sell it and tels everyone that " reflash is perfectly safe and suitable for header + no cat+ cai aka hi flow induction" .Where in realiti it is not, its on a knife edge of engine damaging. Put bad batch of fuel and engine is done.

On current map igt is 27, afr is a bit lean at 0.90 at 5500rpm than goes to .88, but it is not responding to adding fuel. When adding 3% it went from 0.91 to 0.90. So we are suspect of clogged fuel filter as car has 172k km and it was never replaced. Ill fix that this week and see what happens.
Injectors are oem from PRL motors in US so that is fine.

2. That manifold is horrible in stock form. When I saw it I wanted to junk it. Took me 4 months to go back to it and remodel it. Everything was touched in order to make it decent and to line up with head ports.

J35 tb

3. All acceleration measuring is done in video editor from recorded video of speedo. So if I was to use gps it would be more. Prob +0.6 sec. But since I started from video in editor it is fair to my self to do everything that way as its relevant. All pulls were on same spot in similar wether conditions, 6-10c and 70 ish % humidity, and same size tyres.

 

. It was generic flash that serge bo is selling and scaming people with.

Do you happen to know if he has an account here?

 

And thanks for help and info that you shared 👍. Those nkg 2667 are fire! made big difference when swaped instead gunked up ones from oct booster 🙏

 

No problem, we are here for help guys in need.

 

Donk know if he is here but he was active on tsx and some other forums.

At this time I was average stupid person who didn't know what logging is.

He is Ukrainian and he likes to play war card lately but in reality he lives in Canada for past 5+ years.
I have went down the rabbit hole to find more about him so I have talked to people from Ukraine who are in feald of ecu tuning who told me what is going on.
It was funny when i confronted him on topic of his location and other things lol.

His story:

After confrontation:

Was strange to me at the time why someone from Ukraine takes payments in CAD but after I have discovered why lol.

This is when he got angry when one youtuber whcompare his flash vs flash from reflash club. They are also Ukrainian but he calls them russian scumbags ... His flash didnt "win" it that video and was exposed for its shortcomings.

In reality some guy from russia did develop reflash for cl9 in late 2013. Local serge bo dealer - Full name Serge Bogdan - was braging to me how Serge stole that flash from Russians. But other people who were closer to Serge told me that he bought it from that russian and later has bough maps from other tuners for full line of honda cars so he could sell flashes.

He goes by "little bo" "serge bo" , "raccoon" on forums and has raccoon picture on profile, dont know is he is here. He is easy to spot as when confronted he will tell you that he is certified ecu tuner by honda and bigest names in industry and that he makes best header money can buy , that he designed and developed ecu software for tuning honda ecu that is same or better than hondata ect... all that without any proof of "his" work.

Also later I have found test from Malkom666 , in his test found that k24 likes to knock at 5000ish rpm with stock rbb intake therefore needs to have less igt at.that rpm range.

On serge flas it is 25,5 igt wot from 2000-7800rpm. + .95 lambda at that specific rev range is a baaad deal.



When I thikn about it I should have politely asked for refund instead of fking with him lol.

There is also one Croatian forum where he was laughing and calling names one guy who lost engine because of bad batch of fuel on his reflash but cant find it now for the life of me as it was back in 2015. Maybe it got deleted.

Long story short ... Some one develop that flesh for stock car and that is the end of story. Serge took advantage of situation and ignorant naive stupid people like my self who want tuned car for 250 euro and expect everything to work perfectly.

 

Thanks for your reply @Kowalski999. That is a good example how the business is working. I will copy this also to the Call for better tuning quality! | Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum.

But other people who were closer to Serge told me that he bought it from that russian and later has bough maps from other tuners for full line of honda cars so he could sell flashes.

For all others, in the eastern side of Europe, Russia and China they use much more often flash technology to access the ECU. That's possible on (almost) every OBD2 interface having ECU. What you need is a read/writer hardware, the original file, a driver to read the axis write and to interpret the code into numbers we can handle. This technology was used here, works similar to e.g. FPro, just in a more general usage, mostly less user friendly but usable for xxx's of different ECU's/TCU's of xxxx engines.

Please check your tuners background, their customer feedbacks or their competence by specific questions you have. It's the last step to finalize a passionated and hard work, don't let it off by cheap tuning, search for quality tuning.

 

Found more pics of head side of intake manifold,
This manifold was sold as "tactical racing intake manifold" from Tactical Racing Honda shop in UK and I bought it from private seller used, who listed it as a S2 pro street.

Everything was finished in 80grit.

And Final vs stock print, was told that they can't put all 3 pulls 190+227+254 on same graf.

Went from 80hp/1l to 108hp/1l

 

Maybe this can be helpful to someone.
So, we ended up in final stages of tuning and lambda was indicating 0.91 at vtec cross at 5000ish rpm and adding 3% fuel didn't fix that. It was not responding to fuel changes.
Fuel pump and fuel filter/strainer were suspect so changed in tank filter/strainer for new one and that fixed the problem. Now it is indicating 0.86-87

logs:
Before filter change (15years 172 000km)

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

After filter change

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Dyno was done with clogged filter, but I don't think that would made any difference.

 

Dyno was done with clogged filter, but I don't think that would made any difference.

Was this a same day comparison? After the filter change lambda got enriched, means less air. Why a fresh filter should cause it? Did it rain at the new filter measurement?

The lambda tuning is still a bumpy road curve. I wouldn't accept it, a uncertainty of +-0.025 around the average is to big, almost 3 %.

Back to back test RRC vs M2 (copy of s2 pro street) same as mine just unported.

I didn't hear nor read about the M2, must be a really bad copy of the S2 PS IM.

 

Interesting test from DynoDaze 🇬🇧.
Back to back test RRC vs M2 (copy of s2 pro street) same as mine just unported.
+13hp

I belive we will get to see solid fab big tube 421 header vs what ever he has now.

 

Was reffering to fuel filter , not air filter. That is before and after a fuel filter replacement.
It was tuned with shit fuel and caked plugs because of bad oct booster and cloged fuel filter without us knowing that we had those problems. Now everything is sorted out with fueling part and finally can be dialed in.

I think M2 comes out of same factory as "tactical racing manifold" with M2 branding on it. But internally it is identical as mine.
Private labeling type of deal, same as 90% of products sold on amazon.

M2 MOTORSPORT K20A SUPER PLENUM INLET MANIFOLD / M2-RSIM-K20-73

www.m2motorsport.co.uk

 

Was reffering to fuel filter , not air filter. That is before and after a fuel filter replacement.

Now it makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

I think M2 comes out of same factory as "tactical racing manifold" with M2 branding on it. But internally it is identical as mine.

14.5 hp difference? No way. I know the S2 PS IM has a slight disadvantage in VE compared to the RRC and RBC, but not of that magnitude. If these are internal identical, then the guys who mounted and tuned that IM made something wrong. Also the characteristic of the S2 curve at the end does not fit my experience with it. This doesn't seem to me to be a fair comparison. It's likely one of the examples showing more competence and dedication differences then part performance differences.

 

Well, I have some data it is same dyno but different cars (ep3) with comparable mods only difference was one had RRC other had Fake S2 PS.

This is car with RRC 238hp

This is ep3 with fake S2 PS 233 and top looks bad. Red line is overlay of car with rrc

I don't know if both cars had 50 vtc.

Internal of real S2 PS

Fake S2 PS

Dividers and runner entry is very different. On fake one it is almost square edge on the bottom of runner entry.

 

This is car with RRC 238hp

That curve looks like a typical RRC torque curve.

I don't know if both cars had 50 vtc.

Peak power wise it doesn't matter as the 25 VTC are mostly used on all OE near setups at the top end. It is very rare an engine can utilize more power on 30° above 90 % of redline and higher.

Dividers and runner entry is very different. On fake one it is almost square edge on the bottom of runner entry.

Juup, looks really different from casting model side. That could explain the difference in performance, but would need further differences. What is clear, out of circular shape has always higher resistances then circular shaped runners, just because as the flow efficiency in a rectangular is much lower as in a circular pipe.

 

@LotusElise
When we tuned vtc on dyno, it was some junk dyno, calibration was way of but we went on with it only to use it for curve response...got it rented for 30eur/1h so can't complain. We tested from 21 to 32vtc at the top and 32 made the most hp. So that was a bit unusual.
It would be interesting to know why some setups make max power at 10 and some ar 30 vtc.

 

It would be interesting to know why some setups make max power at 10 and some ar 30 vtc.

The cam phasing angle (= VTC angle in Honda language) tells how much scavenging overlap is available. If the exhaust pressure at overlap is higher then intake pressure, the engine don't like that angle advance. A retard of the VTC helps to get out of the pressure at exhaust as pressure are crank angle related, come and goes as pressure waves. A few degree later the underpressure is available where the engine sees more scavenging efficiency and thence better torque.

The top end power at low VTC, e.g. 10°, is only valid for stock setups, huge pressure resistance caused by stock exhaust system = bad for torque everywhere
The top end power at higher VTC, e.g. 40° is only valid for a few NA engines on bigger cams. But not because of the scavenging efficiency, because of the disadvantage of having a backflow at the intake valve. Cams are too big. If not retarding of the cam brings more power, and the cam is also in max. advance position, the camshaft is too big.

The orange torque line corresponds to 32° VTC? The yellow one to 21° VTC?

The pink one looks like it has a too low scavenging efficiency and a too late valve closing...bad compromise on both sides, we don't like .

 

yes they are, yellow 28-21 (21past 7500rpm), red 42-32 (32past 7500rpm)
This is also interesting video on vtc tuning.

 

yes they are, yellow 28-21 (21past 7500rpm), red 42-32 (32past 7500rpm)

Thanks for the reply, this helps me to reflect my assumptions with real world data.

This is also interesting video on vtc tuning.

Yeap, that is what see when talk about engine setups. I've simulated so much engine setups on different cam phase angles, that these setups give me a picture in mind how the different cam angles torque curve likely stand to each other. This helps me much on remote tuning by assuming the VTC optimum. But I never tuned it finally without tuning all VTC, you never will miss a lecture if you do it fully .

 

Long time lurker,short time member lol
Wanted to share my Dyno tune results since I' learned a lot from this thread and it initially swayed me to do the rsp swap after reading about it in another forum.

The engine is a factory sealed/untouched k24z3 auto in a us spec cw2 wagon.

Mods
modded stock intake box with upgraded panel filter and 4in tube from the bottom of the intake box leading into the wheel well and layed out to an open tsx v6 vented fog grille with a 6in velocity stack.

Plm down pipe (2.5in)

Full Tsudo 2.75in exhaust

Stock tsx throttle body (64.5mm manifold side)

Plm water bypass

1in throttlebody spacer meant for r40 manifold

Rsp intake manifold, Tb port, port matched to tsx throttle body, water port cut and shaved. Thermal valve deleted tapped and plugged as the k24z doesn't need it. Untouched runners and stacks.

Thermal intake manifold and tb gaskets

UR light weight pulley (oem size)

Tuned via flashpro on 91 pump gas temp was about 55 if I remember right.

I have no Dyno time with the r40 manifold but here are the results with the rsp and tune.
The wagons are rather heavy (3586 lbs) but I'm happy with the results even with the auto transmission.

 

@Wagon_tail, I copied the post above from the RBC vs RSP(euro type R) intake manifold | Page 42 | Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum to here for discussion, as here more members are likely finding that interesting measurement.

Plm down pipe (2.5in)

I am interested in what you call a downpipe and from where to where it does connect. Anyway, 210 whp sounds like a huge step forward regarding performance compared to a stock maybe 170 whp.

Tuned via flashpro on 91 pump gas temp was about 55 if I remember right.

What altitude it was measured?

Is that a stock intake piping, especially that 45° piece?

 

Plm Downpipe/header for the single port r40 k24z3 head
Elevation is 2001 ft above sea level
The 45 is from a parts bin at work. I needed to extend the tubing since the rsp sits differently compared to the R40 plastic intake manifold and the stock arm came up short.

 

Plm Downpipe/header for the single port r40 k24z3 head

Oh, I forgot the Z3 head casting is also a single tuber.

Elevation is 2001 ft above sea level

Ok, now I understand the correction factor, would be around 930 mbar, 12 °C and a typical sea near mountain humidity at 12 °C of 45 %, giving us a CF of 1.048 according SAE J1349.

The 45 is from a parts bin at work. I needed to extend the tubing since the rsp sits differently

Mmmhhh...understand, emission compliance is a key.

 

Found one S2000 f20 with boltons measured on Bapro 254hp. Interesting to see how it stacks up against my cl9 as they make same top end power.

 

Found one S2000 f20 with boltons measured on Bapro 254hp. Interesting to see how it stacks up against my cl9 as they make same top end power.

Was the F20C1 measurement rated at flywheel? Around 230 Nm from 7000-8000 rpm would be quite good.

 

Yes it was flywheel same as mine.

 

Thanks for your feedback. Did it have bigger duration cams?

 

He say it is stock, only had invidia header, full big bore exhaust, spoon induction. Stock they make 220-225hp and 200ish nm.

 

I've wanted to know how much power I'm making but haven't had the time or money to figure that out. Here's my setup:
Chassis: 2005 civic si (EP3)
Motor: JDM K24A2 swap from 05 TSX
Tsx intake manifold
RSX Type-S Headers
RSX Type-S clutch
2.5" catted midpipe
Injen Cold Air Intake
Hondata KPro
Stock suspension (needs work pretty bad, car is getting old)
Would like to work on intake manifold setup and get a tune but for now i want to see what kind of numbers im making.

 

@k24_ep3si around 215-220 at the crank

 

Κ24/Κ20 12.7CR
4 2 1 ex header
Ported Rrc in.Manifold.
70mm throttle body s90
76mm exhaust
Prb k20a2 head porting valves ..
Toda Racing spec E camshafts.
100Ron gas
Very happy with cams !!
Chassis ep3 type R

Bonus 100-200km

 

Κ24/Κ20 12.7CR
4 2 1 ex header
Ported Rrc in.Manifold.
70mm throttle body s90
76mm exhaust
Prb k20a2 head porting valves ..
Toda Racing spec E camshafts.
100Ron gas
Very happy with cams !!
Chassis ep3 type R
View attachment 110963

Bonus 100-200km

View attachment 110964

I sell toda cams because i replace my project turbo.

Toda cams & valve springs

Has only 200km. In perfect condition Are brand new. tested only dyno and little road Makes 322 horsepower and 300nm torque on k24 12.5CR Very friendly to valvetrane...on

www.k20a.org

What was your max ignition approx. in wot with 100 ron?
is vtec close to 5000rpm with those cams?