Car: 2016 Subaru BRZ
Engine: 2006 Acura TSX USDM K24A2 junkyard engine - Average compression across all 4 cylinders is 183psi, Cylinder 1 and 3 have leaking valves
Bottom End: Stock
Top End: Stock, with Type S oil pump and 50 degree VTC, timing chain and components freshened with new OEM parts
Header/Midpipe: Kpower 4-2-1 Long Tube Header and Midpipe set for an 86
Exhaust: X-Force 3" Dual Exit Catback Exhaust for an 86
Cams: Stock
Intake: Kpower 86 Cold Air Intake 3"
Throttle Body: OEM Subaru BRZ 65mm
Intake Manifold: Kpower RWD Cast Manifold
Tranny: OEM Subaru BRZ 6spd Transmission
ECU: Haltech Elite 1500

The bold lines are E85(~70%), the thin lines are 93 Octane. I believe there is a correction factor in the output here of +10% which is why it says "Est. Tq/Est. Hp". Weather was extremely hot here in Texas, USA - IATs were >115 degrees F
This car is 95% a daily driver, but plan on doing Rally-X and Drift events here and there.
I currently have a 4Piston Racing TSX head on order, so within a few months this will go back on the dyno with a new head, upgraded valve train, aftermarket cams (not sure which cams to go with), larger throttle body, but with same stock bottom end.

 

Welcome to K20a.org @funkjaw! What an interesting introduction and data set you are supplying here. That's pretty interesting!

I currently have a 4Piston Racing TSX head on order, so within a few months this will go back on the dyno with a new head, upgraded valve train, aftermarket cams (not sure which cams to go with), larger throttle body, but with same stock bottom end.

I am looking forward to read about your results!

Average compression across all 4 cylinders is 183psi, Cylinder 1 and 3 have leaking valves

Before tuning too? What kind of leak is it? I just wonder because of the Compression test result. Did you a leakdown test too or did you hear the valve sound and derived that verdict?

IATs were >115 degrees F

Wow, that is a lot. Was this condition with pump fuel too. I assume so, as the VE increase was huge with E85. An IAT of more then 115 °F is a great supporter for alcohol, which need more energy to vaporize and supplies more mass per combustion event, so a two folded advantage beside the faster combustion speed.

I had a customer in South Africa, who's race engine IAT have shown 55 °C. We tuned it in Winter at 15 °C. It enriched that badly that I thought of liner washing immediately. The Hondata FPro don't do the IAT correction correct, still a bug in their SW.

 

That's a very impressive power gain on a stock motor just by switching to e85 fuel. What were you inlet air temps like?

 

Good numbers on a hot day.
235hp/185tq
04 K24a2
DC DIC, rdx injectors, rbc IM, swap header, q300 exhaust, type s oil pump, type s tb, kpro, PNN3 6 speed lsd trans

 

Thanks for sharing your dyno day results .

DC DIC, rdx injectors, rbc IM, swap header, q300 exhaust, type s oil pump, type s tb, kpro, PNN3 6 speed lsd trans

Good performance data for your setup. What would a stock K24A2 show there? I assume fuel was pump gas?

 

I'm unfamiliar with the dyno and what a stock k24a2 would put down. 91 pump gas was used.

 

Thanks for your reply to dyno reference measurement and the fuel which was used.

 

Here we have good induction kit test with good data on iat and also big TB test.

HONDA K20 TB & INDUCTION SYSTEM SHOOT-OUT – Tegiwa Automotive Blog

www.tegiwaimports.com

 

Here we have good induction kit test with good data on iat and also larget TB test.

Thanks for sharing @Kowalski999. The fairness of the test is not really there:

• the TB was tested on a stock near induction and I didn't see if the IM was port matched
• the Group M induction kit was tested against the intakes in a un-real situation of filter position, that's really an uneven test basis
• the intake measurements with Filter up in the air are close to precision (repeatability) of the dyno and says only a liiiiitle bit about there different efficiencies when they are mounted in a correct positon. Bigger filters can there be a disadvantage because of the bigger amount of area near to heated parts and less cool air induction.

 

To me Grupe M is a joke. Have you seen how small that filter is? Was baffled when I saw price tag on it. I can make that type of induction for 100 bucks and it would outperform it.
As for sri iat with big filter I wouldn't sweat about it. Just runn alu flex hose from bumper to filter and you are good.

On my sri setup at 19c ambient temp iat is 22c . With hose removed iat jumps to 26c and intake is right nex to the battery.
My test proves that good sri setup can have colder air than in bumper cai.
Shorter and colder = more power.

Every compereson that I have seen of good sri vs in bumper long cai setup resoult was in favor of sri.

It is always 5-10hp gain so personally I will stick with sri.

As for TB it would be good if they stated if i.m. was port matched or not.
On my setup I will stay with stock tb ported entry (in 68/61out)

One interesting test that I did was 100-200 kmh pull on cold night, Iat was 12c and time was 17.1sec, VS on hot high humidity sumer night, iat was 28c and time was 19.2 sec.

 

The Sk2 Ultra street that was used in the 70mm TB test of Tegiwa has a 71mm opening out of the box. so yes, it was "ported".
"-71mm Throttle Body Opening"

Fits to my findings using a CNC ported and opened up (70mm) RRC intake on my former K22. In terms of MAP dropping over rpm the 70mm S90 TB showed no advantage over a 64.5mm J's racing ported OEM TB. There were a few mbar in it the most. This is on the level of noise or like 1HP.

 

The Sk2 Ultra street that was used in the 70mm TB test of Tegiwa has a 71mm opening out of the box. so yes, it was "ported".

Thanks for the hint to the IM.

I am still with you guys and agree with you, the TB was tested on a stock near system. And since 2004 we know from Hondata's measurement the bigger TB is of no use there. But also Hondata as well as other measurements have shown if power is increased and let's say 280 hp TB size matters. At 310 hp the 70 mm TB was too small, the 74 mm TB made it better, an 80 mm TB would not worth the money for this. On the 1200 hp engine a 90 mm TB still does much better then a 74 mm even if boost is at 4.5 bar, on a 380 hp NA engine a 90 mm TB does also help a lot over a 62.5 and 74 mm TB. That test was just not worth the money as the wheel is still round and keeps round to be efficient as wheel.

Regarding the test specifics of the filter height above the engine and direction, these are, sounds hard but it is like that, worthless, as it tells nothing about the system as it works in a street driven version of it. A simple example, the DAMPFHAMMER made on street up to 130 % VE at a lambda of 0.90 at 7500 rpm and was knock free till 32° BTDC. On dyno the exact same setup made only 120 % VE at a lambda of 0.90 at 7500 rpm and was only knock free till 24°. Why this? At the local dyno the intake routing, on it's aimed location in the bay, lead to sniff exhaust gases into the engine over the intake in an magnitude of 10 % VE points, which reduced necessary fuel and reduced due to flame speed effect of exhaust gas to a lower flame speed and therefore to a 8° retarded knock margin! If I would adapt the setup on dyno it would likely do the same as it does on street, make good power. Same here, non would drive with the filter 300 mm above the hood on street:

• 1st MAP would be lowered by and according vehicle speed (static pressure get reduced by kinetic pressure, created by velocity) by the above hood filters
• 2nd IAT increases, having the filter at aimed bay location, and knock margin get's retarded as well as air density get lowered which mean less power and
• 3rd comparing the M-Group filter at aimed location with pipe related CAI showing 300 mm above the hood is comparing apple with onions. The M-Group filter design was done based on the rule book of the M-Group, CAI's like the pipe related systems where not allowed. There are still regulations, where later is not allowed but the M-Group filter is allowed, like here in Germany.

Customers of Tegiwa don't buy parts because of wining the dyno queen award, but because of having parts which produce more VE on street conditions. Therefore the whole test is worthless in that manner, but still interesting how the MAHA reacts to the changes .

 

I will have good data when I get bolted up with everything. Just waiting on parts and having time to install them is ...
At my local dyno there were 5 stock cl9 accords and all were in same range of power. 187hp (187hp car had 300 000km on it)-191hp. Bapro is really precise if I was to judge it by this and they are stating what is DIN correction on the sheet. So no funny stuff there.

 

Someone needs to do the testing with K like Garage 4age is doing 😀.
Here you can see what setup they have chosen. I recon they tested different stuff and this made the most power.

Also there is alot of data at SRD Motorsports TV where they tested setups and found out that longer intake made more power. That was on high comp D and B series. So prob intake length is specific to an engine.
On my car Im loosing power when I extend it behind the bumper.

SRD has some good stuff in works so It is worth subscribing

Yesterday friend did IAT test on ep3 with short ram and injen cai. Short ram was +18c, injen was +6c of ambient temperature.
I told him how to channel air to the sri with flex alu pipe so we can see how cold we can get it, bud I don't think that he wants to bother testing that it so it will stay a mystery.


@LotusElise How can I calculate VE on my car as it doesnt have MAF sensor, I can only look at IAT, ign, MAP and lambda values?

 

@LotusElise How can I calculate VE on my car as it doesnt have MAF sensor, I can only look at IAT, ign, MAP and lambda values?

If you have injector mass flow and lambda it is a straight forward process. Do you have Excel capacities to implement a little formula and to read out the log data of: MAP, IAT, engine speed injector duration, injector delay, lambda, fuel temperature/pressure?

Yesterday friend did IAT test on ep3 with short ram and injen cai. Short ram was +18c, injen was +6c of ambient temperature.

A mystery which can be solved by analysis of sensor position, heat transfer coefficient assumptions, intake position in the bay and maybe further needed aspects. The first 3 would be a first indicator of what we talk about when we condense it down to the root cause.

 

Looks like I would need some better diagnostic for that, cant do any fuel /injecoter related readout with this cheep obd and phone app that I'm using now.
Some other time than. Thanks 👍

 

Fine, if you did an upgrade, just PM me.

 

I'm helping a bud of mine with his TSX that moved to Australia.

Mods k20 gear set 5.1 FD
RRC oil pump
50 degree vtc gear
4 2 1 Header
76 to 63mm dual exit exhaust
skunk 2 intake
J35 TB
90mm SRI home made
RDX injectors
Hondata FP

This is on pump.

Please bear in mind I have had numerous conversations with him revving the car to 8500 as the cars power died out long before that.
He only does it in 4th as he does not want to select another gear over 400 meters.

 

Hondata FP

Thanks for sharing your dyno results with that engine. What did cause the dip at 3000 rpm shortly before VTEC switch point? BTW, does the FPro IAT compenstion works for you?

 

I found 1.5% to be reasonably close every 10°C during my Rotrex C30-94 on a Rover K18 times. This led to little AFR changes while IATs were climbing with the CC circuit heating up.
This is about half what the simple gas law suggests, i.e. 2.8%. The reason could well be fuel evaporation.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282077211_The_impact_of_intake_air_temperature_on_performance_and_exhaust_emissions_of_a_diesel_methanol_dual_fuel_engine

These chaps found about 1.8% drop in air mass every 10°C higher IAT.

"Substitution ratio" in this paper is about % of methanol coinjected with Diesel fuel. This is only of secondary importance for this discussion and more interesting for the e85 folks. Ethanol boils at around 87°C. This is therefore more relevant for non-cooled forced induction engines indicating significant evaporation before intake valve closing.
interestingly air mass drops once IATs der near or above the boiling point of methanol, 64,7°C. The methanol vapour displaces air and hence intake air mass drops as methanol % increases.

 

Interesting I will check this with a guys car in JHB I'm busy tuning. Thanks for this info.
I'm based in CPT and we have designed PVC cai that we currently use on all our builds. I find it tends to run cooler and does not retain heat as with aluminum ones.
Hitting the dyno tonight with 4 cars will hopefully post the results and mods later this week for comparison.

 

 

Many thanks for sharing your engine specs and dyno sheet (has a really high smoothing factor). The CAT may eat a lot of the available but hidden power here, 400 cpsi are Euro 4 capable, maybe even Euro 5 which is have on CO and NOx of Euro 4. Very nice it still powered with those huuuuuge duration cams that nicely!

I would have some questions to your setup:

• Does the engine have any VTC limiter to ensure the intake valves are not touching the piston in a PID-failure moment?
• Why does your engine got a 5W50 oil? Are the main bearing clearances above 60 µm?
• Do you run a oil pressure and temperature sensor?
• Why do you run BKR8EIX spark plugs on that NA engine? I've tuned many street and race application, NA and FI setups and the heat value of 7 on the NGK's is fine till racing application with good NA setups. With an heat value of 8 you give away some low speed combustion efficiency, which may increase the fuel consumption on street.
• Which Supertech valve springs did you install into your engine head?
• No engine question, but did put my headlight into blinking mode. Why do you run wider tires at the rear on a FWD car?

A oil cooler is a very good thing if you go on tracks too. BTW good, I really like the Rays rims, 7.9 kg is still heavy, but for an 18" wheel it is very light. I run 16" and 17" on my Lotus with 5.4 kg at front and 6.4 kg rim weight at the rear (RWD). I know 15" rims looks not so cute on the UFO, but for drag races it would push much harder forward, especially in low gears. The tires are light for their size...

 

Many thanks for sharing your engine specs and dyno sheet (has a really high smoothing factor). The CAT may eat a lot of the available but hidden power here, 400 cpsi are Euro 4 capable, maybe even Euro 5 which is have on CO and NOx of Euro 4. Very nice it still powered with those huuuuuge duration cams that nicely!

Thanks for the graph comment,I was thinking it was really smooth too. It was done on a 3month old dyno that has just recently been calibrated so I believe it was very strict.

I would have some questions to your setup:
Does the engine have any VTC limiter to ensure the intake valves are not touching the piston in a PID-failure moment?

The VTC was clay tested and was fine until 45 degrees. No limiter was installed. Do you reccomend installing one? It was just locked on software to go up to 40.

Why does your engine got a 5W50 oil? Are the main bearing clearances above 60 µm?

Well, I bought the car semi-complete and decided to run with what was used before. All though, I was getting some read ons, and advices from people to go to 10W40. What is your reccomendation? I do not know about main bearing clearances I am afraid, I am not that technical with mechanics.

Do you run a oil pressure and temperature sensor?

I have an AEM oil temp sensor but it is bugging. It is working intermediate. I have just been reading on sensor ground and main ground issues, have to get more into depths with that.

Why do you run BKR8EIX spark plugs on that NA engine? I've tuned many street and race application, NA and FI setups and the heat value of 7 on the NGK's is fine till racing application with good NA setups. With an heat value of 8 you give away some low speed combustion efficiency, which may increase the fuel consumption on street.

Interesting comment. The Heat was reccomended by the mechanic that firstly made the build. I have been noticing that street driving it is not very efficent. Example.Did a run of 195km yesterday. Out of that it was 45km of heavy city traffic driving with lots of stops and 150km of Highway 130-160kmh speed driving. Car was full prior to this trip and I tanked it after I came back home, and I was able to put 21,97 Liters in to the tank. That would say about 11Liters/ 100km of fuel consumption. Since it wasnt driven that hard I would say that is not a very good result. Would the heat value of 7 spark plugs help with that?

Which Supertech valve springs did you install into your engine head?

Supertech Dual Valve Spring Kit 95lbs at 40.4mm Honda K20
SPRK-H1021D

No engine question, but did put my headlight into blinking mode. Why do you run wider tires at the rear on a FWD car?

That is also an interesting question. Well this generation of the Civic Type R has the plastic front wheel arches and inner arch covers. This means the front is very tricky to get good fitment. I have tried with the 245/40/18 on all 4 wheels.What happend was, I was driving on a highway doing 180kmh,and there was some hole on the road,not very visible one, and I happened to hit it. Unaware of the tight fitment at that time, the broader front tyres kicked both of my wheelarches out and luckly they didnt fly off the car. But both arches and the tyres were badly scraped. I went for 245/40/18 because I was trying not to go for that stretched look I would get from 225/40/18 on a 8.5" wheel. After that incident I bought new wheel arches and changed the wheel size to 225/40/18. Since I didnt have any problems on the back wheels, I decided not to change the recently bought new tyres. Also helps a bit since rear end is very stiff due to torsion beam on this model.

A oil cooler is a very good thing if you go on tracks too. BTW good, I really like the Rays rims, 7.9 kg is still heavy, but for an 18" wheel it is very light. I run 16" and 17" on my Lotus with 5.4 kg at front and 6.4 kg rim weight at the rear (RWD). I know 15" rims looks not so cute on the UFO, but for drag races it would push much harder forward, especially in low gears. The tires are light for their size...

Yeah I am in the process of getting my lines made for the oil cooler. Had some cheaper option of the lines, and they were leaking at the connector on the sandwich plate,so I decided to have them made by somebody that does hydraulic lines as a job. Its already scary enough from how many gaskets K Series can leak oil, so wanted to eliminated that factor too. I do not think I will be doing much racing on this car, maybe once or twice per year, but I wanna be on safe side as temperature in Croatia go up to 42-43C in summer.
If all and any, I would not be doing drags at all, track racing like Grobnik track, that would be an option.

As per wheels, that is one of the lightest wheels in that size. I was thinking of getting same wheels but in 17" x 7.5" or 8" combination, those would be around 6.3-6.5kg. But it is very hard to source a wheel that was made from 2000 to 2004. I barely got a hold of mine,they are from 2001. I could not go lower than 17" as per the Big brake kit, the Ksports 8pot with 330mm discs does not allow for less that 17".

 

@micekkc
That looks like tuning was done by Bruno on his dyno. If so that dyno reads fine, stock accord cl7 did 153chp (155chp from factory) there and this is my friends cl7 (k24swap) on that dyno.

Stock k24a3
k24z3 intake cam
50 vtc
63mm dual exhaust no cat
DC sport header
RSP intake manifold
Cl7 55mm ported inlet tb
Injen cai with simota filter and V.stack
Car was street mapped years ago and in next month or two will have j35 and ported rsp intake and proper dyno tune so we will see what the difference will be.

 

Hello Kowalski999,


Yeah it was done at Bruno. He did the map and all.

The car you are mentioning is from Antonio, I knew him too. He got some good results too!




Poslano sa mog HD1913 koristeći Tapatalk

 

Just got my first build I put together myself dyno tuned at Bakerbuiltgarage in Jacksonville, FL.

Motor: k24a4 block, k20z3 head, Scat forged rods with nippon 11:1 pistons
Header: PLM k24-swap header (wrapped)
Cams: Drag Cartel drop-in
Intake: Hybrid Racing 3.5 cold air intake
Exhaust: custom 3inch with one Magnaflow muffler
Tranny: Stock 09 Civic Si 6-speed LSD
Misc Mods: Ktuned 72mm throttle, portmatched RBC intake manifold, k20z3 oil cooler, hondata intake manifold gasket, Action Stage 3 clutch, 7.5lbs flywheel, ATI SuperDamper, EM1 master and slave cyl

255whp at 7977rpm (Rev-limiter set to 8000)
187 FtLb at 6522rpm

 

Just got my first build I put together myself dyno tuned at Bakerbuiltgarage in Jacksonville, FL.

Similar to that engine setup I've tuned in CAL (short tune on the dyno, to short to be finished): Official: Dyno Chart Comparison & Calibration Registry | Page 63 | Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum, just different cams.

Here a direct comparison with power scale axis.

 

looks nice without any power drop to the limiter.
it the VTEC switchover that late on purpose?

 

looks nice without any power drop to the limiter.
it the VTEC switchover that late on purpose?

What do you mean?

 

A DIC cam should have a lower VTEC crossover rpm on a k24 than 5k.
As is you get a huge jump in torque and power at 5k. A lower point would add torque and power at lower rpm. Maybe it is optimal as is, but I doubt it.
Or you ask for this jump. Some like it.

 

The crossover is actually at 4500. The motor WAS tuned properly. I watched him overlay the graphs and compare them. Drag Cartel drop-in cams are in a league of their own.

 

Freinds car from post above back on the dyno after j35 tb and touch up tune.
Full mod list:
K24a3 engine
K24z3 intake cam
50 vtc
63mm twin exaust (exit are 57mm)
In bumper 3inch cai w simota air filter
Rsp manifold TB port matched and a bit of trumpet porting
Oz ultra 7.5kg wheels
Shorter final drive from fn2
DC 421 header (modified collector to 63mm , stock was 55mm)
J35 tb w Ported entry
6kg flywheel

221chp graph is 55mm cl7 tb
229chp is 64mm j35 tb
It was spinning at 8000rpm on seccond graph but dyno had a bad rpm readout there for not showing correct rpm.

 

221chp graph is 55mm cl7 tb
229chp is 64mm j35 tb

Thanks for sharing your friends result. The torque difference is what I like, shows the RSP can cover a bigger TB. Would be interesting if an 70 mm TB and RSP plenum port match would hold up with it too.

 

i didnt get a photo of my last pull, but i just got tuned, will be going back after some changes.

setup is

JDM K24a stock bottom end
Drag cartel 3.2’s with supertech 1021 springs/retainers
4piston ported oil pump
Stock RBC IM
72mm blox TB
3” custom intake
PLM EP3 raceheader
HKS high power exhaust (60mm)
DPi 1200cc injectors, 6an feed/return with an aeromotive 340lph pump in tank

new mods on the way, going to a 3” exhaust(76mm) and RSP intake manifold and 3.5” intake

dyno graph will show baseline, but final number was 254whp and 184tq, tuned by Jamie Marsh in 60° weather

 

Drag cartel 3.2’s with supertech 1021 springs/retainers

Thanks for sharing your results, which are very interesting. Was the VTC limited to 40° like DC does recommend it on stock pistons? At which engine speed was redline or do you have an graph with an engine speed x-axis available to share?

 

Hello after a long time..
K24/k20 Fully built
-12.5 CR forged
-In.manifold,cai,throttle body
-Ex. Header exhaust
-Prb ported head ..
-Cams ..
315Hp@300NM(Crank)

100RON gas = ~ 93MON i think .

 

I gotta correct this as person who did this dyno test told me wrong on header model... Car was parted out so I got a chance to look at what he had on there. At the moment he told me that he had PLM 421...

213hp was with serge bo 421 header

209hp was with EhxaustWorx 421 header

Paint overlay
Looks like serge has better merge sections and eq length runners helps at making more power.

 

Looks like serge has better merge sections and eq length runners helps at making more power.

Thanks for sharing your results. Quite interesting. Do you have the calibration and logs for both? I would be interested in the differences.

 

Just wanted to upload a video from my above mentioned dyno session

 

Just wanted to upload a video from my above mentioned dyno session

Thanks for sharing the video too. Is that lambda reading of the dyno sheet from the dyno cell bounded wideband or of the wideband reading of your car.

 

Nick tuner conducted some data of ram horn type of header vs skunk2 421.
Red line is Ram horn header
Blue is skunk2

Link to the full video.

 

Nick tuner conducted some data of ram horn type of header vs skunk2 421.

Which is which color?