havent tested the nozzle but had the same thing happen with a 270cc/m nozzle aswell noticed no differance

i guess we just have to have a play round once the car is back

 

well the nozzle is a 340cc/m one which is 10cc's less than what the guy recoments in that thread. the car is making about 11psi so i dont think that would be the issue, but you never know.

i would have thought you would have seen something even with a smaller than optimal nozzle. especially over a run with no spray at all.

 

Have you guys tested the amount of flow because the issue may very well be related to the pump and lines or even a clogged nozzle. I agree with you there should have been a temp difference.

 

Good luck! Let us know the results and what you end up doing!

 

cheers ive had a quick read but his setup seems to be very simular to those posted just on a b series motor.

will have to have another play after the NY and see if we can make any sence from whats happening

Cheers NtegraDryvr

 

I agree with Ntegra it sounds like the nozzle you are using is way to small. I myself am running a 14gph nozzle and it works well. I am not sure if the Bseries would like such a jump in size so maybe staring with a 7gph or 10gph would be good. If you know the IAT sensor is functioning as it should and the peak readings are as high as you say then you are definately using to small a nozzle.

 

If you go over to http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=549019 you can confirm what I'm telling you now.

I would run a 14GPH nozzle from alcohol injection systems. Also the oem IAT sensor is FAR FAR too slow reading to keep up with anything so of course it looks really hot even though it won't be after you upgrade your nozzle.

Edit: Quite a few of us are switching over to an open element GM style IAT sensor which can be found at the T1 race development website.

 

yea its a 62 also im pretty sure. hes got a 270cc nozzle and a 340cc nozzle and its got 150PSI pumping pressure behind it with a 1 gallon tank with a 50/50 mix of water and meth.

the nozzle is before the TB in the intake tube, but the IAT sensor isnt registering a change in the intake charge tempertaure like i would expect. its still heating up just as quick with the water/meth mix as it is with out it. which is not what i would expect. i would have though it would have taken longer.

 

Jase, what size nozzle are you guys running? I don't know much about the b18 JRSC is it an mp62 just like our k20 jrsc?

We have figured out that you should run a 14gph nozzle on our setups and it sounds like your going to be required to with those temps!

Be sure to run the nozzle before the throttle body and call it good.

 

Sorry this may be offtopic a little but help would be much apreciated.

looks very simular to the problems were having on my mates DC2 with B18CR and JRSC. its running 11psi at present and tuned via a S300

hes gone to a water meth injection kit in hope of cooling the intake charge down a little he has one injector per cylinder just before the fuel injectors, but the problem is the IAT sensor is before the water/meth injection so it cant pickup if there is any temp drop going on. what he then did was put the water/meth injector before the SC in hope of cooling it down a little better and having the IAT see the cooler air and not retard the tune.

we data logged with out the water/meth injection turned on and got a max IAT temp of 215degF and it started at 149degF. with the water/meth turned on and working under more than 40% throttle we still ended up with the same temp despite the water/meth being injected pre SC'er.

does anyone have any insite in to what we can look at doing to lower the intake temps down so that the ECU isnt retarding the shit out of the tune. is he running to much boost and spinning the SC to much? or is there something else going on in there?

 

i have upload the same files on another website

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZBWRESQV

 

this it a link where you can see the datalog of my JRSC k20a2 with the stock IAT sensor in the manifold..

http://rapidshare.com/files/322525589/IAT_1.kdl.html

 

i have upload the same files on another website

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZBWRESQV

Finally got around to looking at this and can't view the datalog without the .kal file.

 

i have threads the stock oem sensor with M10x1.25 mm and i next made a hole of 8mm with a threds M10x1.25

it's very good, now in a normal part throttle drive with a iat ext of 0°C i have a iat in the manifold of 45-50°c..
in a wot on 4 th gear the temperature go from 45 °c to 58 °C, and next in 5 th gear they arrive at 79°c...

 

Any updates Mike? What was your final decision and actions on this issue?

 

I am definitely going to relocate the IAT, but I haven't made any final decision on where, or on which sensor to use. I need to do some experimentation on the reaction time of the sensors because I suspect that is going to be important. I'll probably do some work on it after Christmas.

 

i want to try with the oem sensor in the jrsc manifold...i think is the best for accurate read of IAT and ecu compensation!

 

I bought a used JRSC kit and it had that IAT sensor location identical to the one pictured above.

 

I have a friend of mine that got the same Manifold to his SC kit that he bought 2years ago. But I insalled another kit on a friends car last summer and on that Manifold they haven´t drilled any of the holes to the IAT.

 

I bought a JRSC RSX-s intake manifold a couple of years ago and that had all necessery mounting holes for a D/B-series IAT-sensor in the plenum.
But they say nothing in the installation manuall about it. I think its all about money, theydidnt think that there was enough gains contra money using that. But its awsome for us Diy:guys

Here´s my Autorotor/Lysholmsbuild if you have missed it: http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25610

 

That manifold is full of things they were thinking about and didnt execute on it seems.

 

Here on my site you can see where I have tapped my IAT sensor at .

http://www.willbelayforfood.com/rsx/rsxmainsite/IATSensor.htm

Here is the link to T1 were the sensor can be found. Its super fast acting and read 10X faster than any GM or honda sensor that I have tested. The other thing is that it is small being 1/8 npt size threads. I now get 2-3 readings per second in kmanager. The calibration is the same as the GM sensor as well. Below is the correction table.

http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/en...om/en/products/details/251/52/sensors/temp-sensors/t1-motorsport-at-sensor.html

Table was created by Simon not me. Thanks Simon

F Volt
304 0.000
260.6 0.016
226.4 0.312
199.4 0.468
179.6 0.624
163.4 0.780
152.6 0.936
143.6 1.092
136.4 1.248
129.2 1.404
123.8 1.560
118.4 1.716
113 1.872
109.4 2.028
102.2 2.184
96.8 2.340
91.4 2.496
84.2 2.652
77 2.808
71.6 2.964
64.4 3.120
59 3.276
53.6 3.432
48.2 3.588
42.8 3.744
37.4 3.900
32 4.056
24.8 4.212
17.6 4.368
5 4.524
-9.4 4.680
-29.2 4.836
-58 5.000


and this table (in degree's C)

GM Actual
88 90
86 88
84 86
80 84
78 82
76 80
74 78
72 76
70 74
68 72
66 70
64 68
62 66
58 64
56 62
54 60
52 58
50 56
48 54
46 52
44 50
42 48
40 46
38 44
36 42
34 40
32 38
30 36
28 34
26 32
24 30
22 28
18 26
16 24
14 22
12 20
10 18
8 16
6 14
4 12
2 10
0 8

ie, if you use this sender on a Kpro ECU, the number it gives you is wrong, look it up in the first column, then the corresponding number is the actual temp. once you are over 90C it';s dam near the same.

Below is conversion to F

GM/ C GM F Actual F
88 90 190.4 194
86 88 186.8 190.4
84 86 183.2 186.8
80 84 176 183.2
78 82 172.4 179.6
76 80 168.8 176
74 78 165.2 172.4
72 76 161.6 168.8
70 74 158 165.2
68 72 154.4 161.6
66 70 150.8 158
64 68 147.2 154.4
62 66 143.6 150.8
58 64 136.4 147.2
56 62 132.8 143.6
54 60 129.2 140
52 58 125.6 136.4
50 56 122 132.8
48 54 118.4 129.2
46 52 114.8 125.6
44 50 111.2 122
42 48 107.6 118.4
40 46 104 114.8
38 44 100.4 111.2
36 42 96.8 107.6
34 40 93.2 104
32 38 89.6 100.4
30 36 86 96.8
28 34 82.4 93.2
26 32 78.8 89.6
24 30 75.2 86
22 28 71.6 82.4
18 26 64.4 78.8
16 24 60.8 75.2
14 22 57.2 71.6
12 20 53.6 68
10 18 50 64.4
8 16 46.4 60.8
6 14 42.8 57.2
4 12 39.2 53.6
2 10 35.6 50
0 8 32 46.4


Hope this helps

 

Someone made the point that a roots supercharger, by design, causes roughly a constant temperature increase - since it's boost is roughly fixed. I can see that, though as it's asked to compress more air faster as rpm rises, seems like it'll certainly get hotter.

Anyhow, say that's true, but that leaves turbo and Rotrex setups vulnerable. I'd say it's best to use a fast-reacting sensor (I'm an EE). Since we don't know what Honda does with the temperature reading - just how important a up-to-date reading is, it's best to err on the side of caution. The approaches above will "probably" be fine, but why push your luck, stick with the stock sensor.

 

I didn't think a B20 IAT sensor would read quickly enough. I'm using a 98 Integra LS IAT open element sensor and it is slow as hell!

 

good info here:up:

Mike, i have the best option for you i promise if you wanna utilize the OEM sensor....i'll pm you

 

Here ya go

Factory Honda B20 IAT

Tapped and drilled hole

And The SEX!!! lol

 

I drilled and tapped the bottom plate of mine and used a oem Honda B20 iat. Its threaded and works perfectly with Kpro. When i get back from dinner ill post up pics.:up:

 

As I understand what I have read though the OEM sensor is too slow reacting to give meaningful input. That seems to be the consensus anyway.

 

The OEM sensor reacts quickly enough. It would be rather easy to test the response time of the OEM sensor by putting it in warm water followed by putting it in ice water. See how long it takes the temperature to stabilize.

All sensors have a certain lag, it's not that big of an issue because you can't have instantaneous change in temperature in a mass of air anyhow.

 

Heres the GM one in a CT manifold...

 

Some work has been done on the issue of the sensor.

Scuffers posted some information up HERE. That pretty much covers the issue of the reading from the sensor I am considering using.

 

The big thing is, we don't know what other circuitry Honda has on the IAT input to the ECU. I'm assuming that Honda is using a simple thermistor or thermocouple type sensor, so you'd need to make sure the new sensor has the correct ohm range & has the correct temperature coefficient (negative temp coeff. or positive temp coeff.). The shape of the slope also needs to be similar.

Basically, it's important to mirror exactly the OEM sensor's function because the temperature sensor is used throughout the ECU and we don't have full control over all the operations involving temperature.

The best thing to do would be to make a hole for the OEM temp sensor, have a gasket & a retaining clip to make sure that the OEM sensor doesn't pop out under boost. It wouldn't be too difficult to do. That way you sidestep any issues and guesswork associated with using a different temperature sensor type.

It seems foolish to replace one type of guesstimation (real temp from ambient temp) with another type of guesstimation (new sensor reading vs. old sensor reading). You don't solve your problem that way, you just replace one problem with another. Stick with the OEM sensor. We don't have nearly enough control over the temp sensor to be able to compensate for different types like we can with the O2 and MAP sensors.