[911/RSX-s]

Nobody runs Titanium rods with Chromoly cranks do they? No, they either have inserts, or they are coated with something. Same concept here.

Jeff

Stock NSX?

 

[Import Builders]

BUy a stock NSX rod, look at it, and see that no Titanium is touching the crank whatsoever. Its guarded.

Jeff

 

[JDM96SpecCTR]

where are these treated steel retainers available? and what is the cost as opposed to the TI?

 

[MaxiMental]

I had a set of Ti retainers from a very reputable company in my built B18C motor a few years ago (along with aftermarket valve springs and cams and high compression pistons) and after about 10k miles one of the retainers wore so thin (from the harder steel valve spring "eating" away at the Ti retainer's seat, just as laakuma has described) that it failed, leading to a dropped valve and an impressive show of piston chunks out the tailpipe. Fun times. Upon closer inspection ALL the Ti retainer seats had worn very thin from the mileage, and I assure you the clearances were checked very carefully during installation (the engine was built by a reputable professional).

As far as I know there have been no significant advances in metallurgy that would lead me to conclude that Ti retainers are less likely to wear out on a K-series motor. This being the case, I won't be using Ti retainers on any street motors I build, but I do have Ti retainers on my EG road race car's K20 because the mileage this engine will see is low enough that it won't be a problem before I make changes that'll give me the opportunity to inspect and replace the retainers if/when necessary.

 

[Import Builders]

where are these treated steel retainers available? and what is the cost as opposed to the TI?

I will take some pics of my Steel Retainers for you to see. I will have a couple thousand this week, some are being coated. Some are not. When people get their hands on these, Ti is a thing of the past. These weigh the same as alot of Ti retainers, and lighter in some cases. They also raise up the installed height on B series applications by 58k. K series close.

Jeff

 

[ATS*FRED]

this is very good info to keep :up:

when i get into the internals in my motor i'll be sure to keep Jeff's steel retainers on the list :up:

 

[talonxracer]

I have Ti retainers and Eibach springs installed. What should I look for to see if they are wearing. Any signs to look for of iminent failure?

Doug

 

[Import Builders]

I have Ti retainers and Eibach springs installed. What should I look for to see if they are wearing. Any signs to look for of iminent failure?

Doug

I dont think anyone needs to panic. I just think you should check it every 10k miles. At least a couple.

You just take one off, inspect the bottom, all around it, and see if its wearing.

Back in 2001 when Ti become ultra popular, most people between now and then are using them on cars they dont drive alot so they would not have a problem. However, as time goes on, those people that have 10's of thousands of miles on them are seeing problems. Not all people, some people. But it is a problem, no question about it. Ti should not be touching that spring without a coating on it. No doubt.

Jeff

 

[talonxracer]

I usually drive alot and have 10K on the Ti retainers right now, I would hate to loose a motor.

 

[JDM96SpecCTR]

cost/pricing vs. titanium?

 

[mrdmferrett]

Jeff can you help me.
I have supertech double valve springs and Ti retainers the inner spring has what I believe to be an interference fit because it pushes and holds the inner spring firmly, do you think these springs and retainers are good enough for my 10k forced induction build.

Can I ask another question relating to spring rates
I have a specification of the following

Dual valve spring 29/21.80mm-21-15.50mm
80.8lbs@40.40-215 @215lbs @12mm kift
CB 18.60mm/17mm max net lift 21.80mm


Are these spring rates good enough for a 10k high lift (13.2) cam and will they manage those cam speeds without wear. They feel really difficult to compress by hand?

I was also considering your locking keepers are they released for sale.

Any help on this would be truly great.

Thanks

Dan:up:

 

[Import Builders]

Jeff can you help me.
I have supertech double valve springs and Ti retainers the inner spring has what I believe to be an interference fit because it pushes and holds the inner spring firmly, do you think these springs and retainers are good enough for my 10k forced induction build.

Can I ask another question relating to spring rates
I have a specification of the following

Dual valve spring 29/21.80mm-21-15.50mm
80.8lbs@40.40-215 @215lbs @12mm kift
CB 18.60mm/17mm max net lift 21.80mm


Are these spring rates good enough for a 10k high lift (13.2) cam and will they manage those cam speeds without wear. They feel really difficult to compress by hand?

I was also considering your locking keepers are they released for sale.

Any help on this would be truly great.

Thanks

Dan:up:

I answered through PM.

 

[NtegraDryvr]

I am curious if there are any alternatives to the TI retainers offered with the IPS K2 cams or if anyone knows anything on the matter?

 

[Import Builders]

I am curious if there are any alternatives to the TI retainers offered with the IPS K2 cams or if anyone knows anything on the matter?

Go ahead and use the Ti, just inspect it every 10k miles.

There is no other alternative right now.

Jeff

 

[mike323]

Jeff can you help me.
I have supertech double valve springs and Ti retainers the inner spring has what I believe to be an interference fit because it pushes and holds the inner spring firmly, do you think these springs and retainers are good enough for my 10k forced induction build.

Can I ask another question relating to spring rates
I have a specification of the following

Dual valve spring 29/21.80mm-21-15.50mm
80.8lbs@40.40-215 @215lbs @12mm kift
CB 18.60mm/17mm max net lift 21.80mm


Are these spring rates good enough for a 10k high lift (13.2) cam and will they manage those cam speeds without wear. They feel really difficult to compress by hand?

I was also considering your locking keepers are they released for sale.

Any help on this would be truly great.

Thanks

Dan:up:

Dan, the springs and retainer kit you got can easily support cam lifts of 16mm without any issues and should give you great life. The titanium retainers are made in interference fit with both springs in order to reduce/eliminate play during up/down movements. These retainers will have to be replaced in 25k miles.

Several spring manufacturers will be coming out with 7075 T651 Aluminium retainers/valve locks which will give you 75k miles.

As some of you know several OEM vehicles come with aluminium retainers like the Mitsubishi EVO 8.

 

[NtegraDryvr]

Go ahead and use the Ti, just inspect it every 10k miles.

There is no other alternative right now.

Jeff

Is there a reason we can't use the steel retainers or otherwise?

 

[mike323]

Is there a reason we can't use the steel retainers or otherwise?

You can use the stock one with the supertech kit. I'm sure you can use stock retainers with all spring kits.


Titanium retainers need to be installed in interference with both springs, but steel retainers don't. The reason for titanium retainers need to be very snug is because if there's some play, then it will wear it very quickly, and Ti has a Rockwell hardness of C 36-40, whereas some alloy steel or stainless steel have hardness of C 54-60.

 

[talonxracer]

I just saw my first damaged Ti retainer monday, not on my car. I was at my machinist's shop and he had a head with a damaged Ti retainer. What we found was that the springs used had a flat wound inner spring and that had a rather sharp edge that tore into the Ti retainer causeing the failure. I suppose a quick file job on the edges of the ends of the springs couldnt hurt.

 

[mike323]

I just saw my first damaged Ti retainer monday, not on my car. I was at my machinist's shop and he had a head with a damaged Ti retainer. What we found was that the springs used had a flat wound inner spring and that had a rather sharp edge that tore into the Ti retainer causeing the failure. I suppose a quick file job on the edges of the ends of the springs couldnt hurt.

Any sharp edge from the spring making contact with Ti retainers will cause it to fail prematurly.

 

[rsxmachine]

Is there a reason we can't use the steel retainers or otherwise?

IPS has spec'd their retainers at particular installed heights, there are a couple versions of the Type-S/R/S2K OEM steel retainers so it would be interesting to know if any of them would be compatible. I'm running K2's with Toda valve springs and the flat OEM retainers