Ive read very great things about each on of these intake manifolds, some even making better power than 52mm ITBS. My compression Ratio is about 11:7:1 and im tuning on E85. I currently only have a RBC intake manifold, 70mm throttle body and 3" intake.

I wanted to upgrade to one of these manifolds and uprgrade to a Q45 or Mustang 80mm or 90mm throttle body and add 3.5" Intake with a velocity stack.

According to my research, by adding these 3 upgrades i could be looking at anywere from 15WHP to 25WHP gains. I just need to be pointed in the right direction.

So which one is best ? IPS ? Excessive ? or RRC?

well you can take the RRC out of that eqaution right off the bat. No oem manifold is going to compete with the likes of those two manifolds for power. For most builds though a ported RRC would offer enough flow to compliment the build. If you are'nt trying to make alot more than 300+ whp then you don't need anything more than an RRC.

 

The reason i added the RRC was because i know it out performes the Skunk2 Manifold. So i figured it may also have given these other aftermarket mani's compettion.

Im trying to reach atleast 280 to 300 WHP, without aftermarket cams. Im currently on TSX type S cams. Making 230WHP.

What about the GATO? For now im just attempting to pick up another 20 to 30 WHP.

Do you think by upgrading this, it would be possible?

 

you will be in that whp range with all of these 3 intake manifold.

280whp with rrc user here

 

i made 294 whp on a ported rbc

 

and many people have broke the 300 barrier,so OP it would be in your interest to stick with oem.

 

RRC+70 or 74mm TB + 3.5 inch intake.

Unless you plan on ported head ,bigger cams, higher compression stick with what I said. If you do these mods then look into the bigger manifolds.

 

The IPS and the Xcessive (depending on how you set the Excessive up) should easily make more power on a built motor over any stock manifold. And yes they should make more than 52mm itbs. 52mm is too small even for a stock K20. I have never seen any manifold perform better than properly sized ITBs. I have 3 customers using modified Xcessive manifolds and making really good power on pretty basic 2.4L motors....315-325hp stock stroke and 87.5 bore for all 3. It works well if its sized right for the motor and these guys figured that out.

 

What about a RRC or RBC ported with a Q45 throttle?
I have only seen pics of the Q45 mated to a RBC, but never seen actual numbers.

I plan on doing this mode Q45 + ported RBC with the RBC flange opend as much as the intake manifold permits to run in a stock K20

 

We dyno tested an engine similar to yours when I was developing my K-series intake manifolds. 87.5mm x 99mm, 12.5:1, Cartel Stg. 4 cams. It made 318 HP with a Honda Manifold and 360 HP at 8,300 rpm with my 8.5 model. I kept the intake pipe long to hold the HP peak down to 8,300.
The 9.0 model is approaching full production status right now, and the 8.5 model should be ready in about 6-7 months. Both will be available with side or central mounted T/B, but the easy-fit side entrance plenum hurts the HP some because of the uneven air distribution. About 8 HP from the testing we did. 80mm is all you need T/B-wise. We didn't see any HP gain going to 90mm at just 2.4 liters.
We also saw a 16.5 HP increase over 2.5" Kinsler ITB's on a 2,188cc engine we tested using my 9.0 manifold, and a 45 HP increase over an RBC manifold on that same engine. A bone stock K20A went from 238 HP to 283 HP with the 8.5 manifold. That's 45 HP. On the first pull without ANY tuning it went to 265 HP.
On two of the larger (around 2.6L) engines we tested that were already using the Hayward designed IPS manifold mine made 20 more HP at a lower rpm, and that spells more torque.

 

Are you sharing whp numbers in this post? The reason I ask is I have never heard of a stock K20A making 283 whp with any intake manifold... Unless of course the IM had a direct port nitrous setup on it. LOL

 

^buitrex:got pics of that? i find it hard to believe you can fit a 90mm TB on a rbc, unless you chop off the tb flange and box it out larger with sheet metal(custom plenum).

 

Interesting thread, how about the AFI & Hayward manifolds in comparison to the IPS and Xcessive ?

People have switched from AFI and Xcessive manifolds to IPS manifolds and picked up MPH. People have tested them, but I don't know if you will see any plots...one thing to consider though: AFI, Xcessive, and Hayward manifolds sit in the classifieds for weeks at a time without selling. IPS manifolds sell within a day most cases, and still go for retail pricing.

 

I am hoping that post wasn't a whp numbers game.

 

lol. I'm just saying it seems like all the cars tuned there have some ridiculous numbers...I think it has been talked about on here and some other forums.

From what I've seen, the AFI doesn't flow so great in all motor application, Excessive is still a little small for some motors and the Hayward Drag manifold with 90mm is the closest you're going to get to ITB's (60mm or larger).

 

heres a pic of a rbc with a Q45 throttle body

 

Interesting thread, how about the AFI & Hayward manifolds in comparison to the IPS and Xcessive ?

 

From what I understand the IPS and Hayward IM's perform pretty much the same because they were designed by the same person (Lance Hayward)

I have also seen several people using the Excessive and AFI manifolds with excellent results.

 

Mike,
All of the testing (6 different engines) was done on the same Dynapack, the one at Shawn Church's shop that Hondata owns. None of us had ever seen a bone stock K20A make that much HP before either, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger. That particular K20A (JDM Type R) had never been all that strong a motor. I've seen others like it make 245 HP on the same dyno, which indicates that a really sweet 245 HP engine would end up with pretty close to 290 HP with one of these intake manifolds. There are a LOT of things that are different in my design compared to other manifolds, but the biggest one is the fact that I've tuned the runner length to take full advantage of the 2nd order wave harmonic. That keeps the torque curve from falling off above 6,000 rpm the way it "normally" does with Honda manifolds. I put normally in quotes because there's nothing really normal about this at all, its simply a function of how Honda designs their intake manifolds, and in this case they screwed up by optimizing it for the rather weenie 3rd order harmonic. Ferrari does the same thing so its not just Honda we're talking about here. Its mostly a packaging and ease of casting consideration on their part. This certainly isn't new science. I've used it on other intakes I've built for over 20 years.

 

Damn, 283 hp on church's is about 263 whp. That is motherfucking insane.

 

Joe, how much does your manifold weigh?

Would be nice to get the weights of all of these manifolds, and size comparisons. I will see if I can get the IPS and Hayward manifolds weighed in the next couple days.

Some pics for size comparison:

RBC - LHP - PRB

RBC - IPS

 

Signalpuke,
14 lbs. cast in Aluminum. 8 1/2 lbs. cast in Magnesium
I'm glad you posted that picture of the RBC next to the Hayward/IPS manifold. That makes it easy to see how pushing the design toward a bigger plenum shortens even more the already too short runners. I reminds me of the B-series turbo manifolds everyone used to make, other than the central inlet T/B position which is always the best place for it.
My runners are MUCH longer than the RBC, hence the extra weight.

 

My manifolds are not light by any means,
typically .200"+ wall thickness.
More durable then say a sheet metal manifold in a boosted situation.

I can make a longer runner manifold if there is a need/want,
but engine compartment packaging does become an issue.

Anyone still wanting IPS manifolds??

LHP

 

My manifolds are not light by any means,
typically .200"+ wall thickness.
More durable then say a sheet metal manifold in a boosted situation.

I can make a longer runner manifold if there is a need/want,
but engine compartment packaging does become an issue.

Anyone still wanting IPS manifolds??

LHP
www.haywardperformance.com

Considering how quickly they sell in the classifieds, I would say that the answer is yes.

How much do the IPS manifolds weigh?

 

funny i was wondering the same thing i have a rbc with 70mm tb and i have xcessive with q45 center feed . 12.5:1 cr k24 stock k20a2 head with skunk2 stage 3 cams im hoping i didnt waste money and the xcessive out performs the rbc as it should . later on ill build a big motor

 

I would surely expect the Xcessive w/ Q45 TB to outperform the RBC w/ 70mm TB. What power do you make now? Just curious...

Made 300+ on a stock non port matched rbc with 70mm tb. Pump gas

Very nice. :up: What was the rest of the setup?

 

Made 300+ on a stock non port matched rbc with 70mm tb. Pump gas

 

opcorn:

 

This is a good thread and all, but I'm wondering where the OP got TSX Type-S cams. Pretty rare since there's no such thing. Maybe he meant RSX? Just has me wondering

 

Im quite positive a "proper" ported RBC/RRC will be superior to the Xcessive up to 8000rpms....

Obviously im not talking about a k26/k27 drag build, but your average k24 with boltons and cams..

 

I wouldnt be so sure about that. I cant speak for the excessive but here is a 12.5:1 2464cc (89x99) motor heavily ported Endyn RBC with a plate in the plenum vs IPS manifold

With a bigger cam like a DC4 that gap might even widen...

 

Is the second dyno sheet a ported RBC vs the side or center thottle Xcessive Mozz??

 

Side mate.

 

It seems that the ported RBC has a more healthier mid range and some torque though.

 

 

I want to keep this thread going instead of starting another one. I currently have a stock port RRC manifold that will be port matched to a 74mm HR TB.

This will be a daily street driven motor. I want to know if I should have the RRC ported? Reason I ask is because I'll have a 4 piston PRO 156 head, stock size valves. Rest of the set-up is drag cartel 2.2 cams and 11.1cr 87.25m K24 block.

Any thoughts? Cant find to seem info on a ported RRC manifold.

 

i gained 9whp after i ported my rrc my set up is a k20r,ips k2,74mm hr tb,3.5 intake with v-stack and ssr/dtr header.