Have a look at the Doctronic schematics. Get a complete swap kit (engine, gearbox, loom, ECU, starter, alternator, axles). I have put 3 Hondas in Lotus Elise. Twingo should work, too.

why not a Clio?

 

Maybe because the Twingo a small FWD ? The enginebay is even smaller as the Vauxhall Corsa Mk 1. Anyway, many have managed it to implant an C20XE into it with the Vauxhall Calibra 6spd-Gearbox, even with boosted engine setups based on the C20LET engine. Bore pitch/spacing is at 93 mm, so almost the one of the K-series. The F7R engine of Renault does also make it into that chassis, much smaller bore pitch. The Corsa A and the Twingo 3 are almost the same width, depends on the internal chassis layout and enginebay height. The K-series is about 100 mm taller then a C20XE engine

 

Actually the Twingo 3 is transverse rear engine RWD. It has a high steering angle. Plus I have one and I love the car except that it is not powerful enough at 70hp. In my opinion it is the perfect candidate as it is transverse and the K24 is designed as a transverse engine. I measured up the Twingo's Engine Bay. It's a light 5 door car that I personally think looks very cute and would make a great sleeper - because who would expect it? 😏 I thought about a Hayabusa but I know nothing about motorbikes and those engines are getting more and more expensive. Plus the K series is a better engine in my opinion, and VTEC is awesome. The powe potential and upgradability is great so if I get bored of 200hp I can shoot for 400hp. Also since the Twingo 3's engine is under the boot floor, I can move the boot floor or delete it if the K24 is too tall, so I have a ton of space to work with. I have actually put a lot of thought into it and not just picked the Twingo because it is a car I like. Also these things can drift well if they have the wheel sensors unplugged and a welded diff - see here

I will look at Doctronic Schematics and the swap kit. Will a Speeduino ECU work for this project?

 

You can see in these photos that the stock engine and transmission are sort of built like one unit, and that height isn't an issue because I can just put spacers to raise the cover and put the carpet on top. Once the bumper is removed it will be a lot easier to see and access, plus a lot of the space is taken up by all the plastic auxiliary garbage which can be taken out. Also a lot of the space underneath is taken up by the muffler and exhaust so when it is all taken out, there is quite a bit of space. The stock engine is pretty diddy but all the accessories around it are quite large. Since the coolant, brakes and wiper fluid reservoirs are at the front of the car it means I have some extra space to work with. I suspect the plastic intake manifold is hiding some space under it too. My only consideration is mounting and how I am going to do it, since I think the mounts on the stock engine are at the front which is quite peculiar, but I think I will be able to do some fabrication work to amend that. I measured from the one of the pulleys at the front to roughly where the bellhousing is connected to be around 53cm. If you download the photo you should be able to zoom in because I shot it on my Nikon camera. My idea is that I should be able to shift the K24 further left than the oem engine is placed because I can delete that fan and box thing and just shorten the axle if I need to. I will likely have to make custom axles anyway so that isn't a problem to me.

Also how can we move this thread, I am new to forums so I don't know how it works.

 

You can see in these photos that the stock engine

Nice, a half of a V6 . That IM is really low engine speed optimized, very nice. Regarding measurements you may check out this: K20 into S600 measurements | Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum. The Honda S600 is really small in width...

Also how can we move this thread, I am new to forums so I don't know how it works.

We from the mod team would do this. Give me a title you want and I will do it for you.

 

the K20/k24 is not a small engine. In the Lotus Elise Mk1 it JUST fits the engine bay before occupied by a 1.8l Rover K. To make it fit, you have to shave corners of the gearbox case off.
On the other side @HusseinHolland has fitted a K24 into a Fiat X1/9.

 

The twingo engine block and head is really small, only 998cc. The accessories around it take up the space.
I am prepared to shave things to make things fit

 

FYI, the K24 is 19mm taller than the K20. Otherwise they are essentially the same.

 

Assuming the twingo axles won't work with the Honda gearbox, just putting this in here so I have an option when the time comes

 

just putting this in here so I have an option when the time comes

If you know what you are doing, we shortened the driveshafts already for the Lotus, but not with that solution, I don't like it, as it doesn't respect the original intention and function.

 

Best to get custom driveshafts. For the Elise you can get hubs machines to the take the Honda OEM outer joints.

 

How much will it cost and where do I get them? I would rather make them at home to be honest. I don't know much about hubs but I assume they are fairly universal on size and teeth count? Not sure about where to find the right length ones either. Plus this is a very obscure swap

 

There are companies that can make you custom drive shafts to any spec you want. Welding hybrid drive shafts is tricky and I expect the twingo to use crappy CVs from the factory. K24 in first and 2nd gear will put HUGE torque on the shafts. I have seen Honda Elise conversion shafts sheering off because of a single poorly positioned circlip groove. UK has good suppliers.
worth thinking about custom wheel hubs as the Honda CVs are up to the job.
To get you an other idea, many Honda Elise conversions use Ford Transit van outer CVs as they are strong. Cheap Chinese replacement CVs for €30 fail within an hour of track use.

the shafts I got from Dan Webster for the Elise conversion suitable with his engine mounts are made from 300M steel.

300M - Tech Steel & Materials

300M is a low alloy, vacuum melted, steel of very high strength. Essentially it is a modified AISI 4340 steel with silicon, vanadium and slightly greater carbon and molybdenum content than 4340. 300M has a very good combination of strength (280 to 305 ksi), toughness, fatigue strength and good...

www.techsteel.net

They have no sharp diameter transitions anywhere to avoid stress risers. Even the spline grooves are phased in.

even grease choice is critical on the Elise as increased drive shaft angles increase friction and with it heat a lot. This causes CV boots to blow up under hard use. Don’t cheap out on drive shafts. They will cause misery to no end as they leave you stranded. On the Elise conversion this took many years to sort out a durable solution.

 

Is it possible the stock Honda axles and get away with just converting the hubs to honda ones? Or do I have to get custom axles?

 

Is it possible the stock Honda axles and get away with just converting the hubs to honda ones?

That's what we do on the Lotus swaps. Buy a Honda axle and check it out if it is possible. I don't think anyone tried the Twingo swap before.

 

The length won’t fit. If you find a specialist, you could shorten the civic axles and have them electron beam welded . That may work. But it will cost the same as custom shafts. You could use cut axles and a tube to figure out the required length.

 

How do you swap wheel hubs? It is not something I know anything about. I doubt the stock twingo hubs and transmission would hold up to the torque.

 

I doubt the stock twingo hubs and transmission would hold up to the torque.

I assume a at maximum 130 Nm engine won't be designed for more then 200 Nm too. I thought the approach is to integrate the full swap (engine plus transmission). Based on that approach the axles are may be too long. I would look into the Renault Megane RS area, to swap hub near parts into that. These parts are very good and friendly priced. Beside that, the suspension of the Twingo won't be designed for the power. A deeper look into necessary upgrades may make the decision for a custom axle more on the demand side. I assume you can't pass that easily.

Aftermarket companies invest 10k's for the adapter mount, ... kits, your route likely isn't more easy.

 

I plan to use the transmission that is designed for the K24. I want to do all the engine and transmission and stuff first to actually get the car driving, I will probably put an end stop on the throttle pedal so I don't tear the back end to shreds, until I upgrade some of the parts and can use full power

 

just had a look at a Mk3 Twingo while running today on the lovely French northern coast.
I have my doubts you‘ll be able to stick a K24 and gearbox in this car without chopping half the car off.
The width may work, but you also need some depth (front to rear). Maybe you can tilt the engine frontwards and remove the rear seats.

Torque won’t be that much of a problem as the tyres are very narrow. You cannot transmit that much torque on the road anyhow.

It is very easy for a K24 to send in excess of 2000Nm to the rear wheels.
So better plan for a limited slip diff to have any chance of controllability.
It would then also offer awesome drift capabilities.

There is also no chance you’ll ever get this street legal in la grande nation.

Can you weld or mill?
Do you have CAD knowhow, either computer or cardboard based design?
Are you familiar with car schematics/electronics?
It is not uncommon for a conversion to take 1-2 years unless you get a very complete kit, e.g. from an identical accident car, or you throw lot’s of money at it to have custom parts done.

 

just had a look at a Mk3 Twingo while running today on the lovely French northern coast.
I have my doubts you‘ll be able to stick a K24 and gearbox in this car without chopping half the car off.
The width may work, but you also need some depth (front to rear). Maybe you can tilt the engine frontwards and remove the rear seats.

Torque won’t be that much of a problem as the tyres are very narrow. You cannot transmit that much torque on the road anyhow.

It is very easy for a K24 to send in excess of 2000Nm to the rear wheels.
So better plan for a limited slip diff to have any chance of controllability.
It would then also offer awesome drift capabilities.

There is also no chance you’ll ever get this street legal in la grande nation.

Can you weld or mill?
Do you have CAD knowhow, either computer or cardboard based design?
Are you familiar with car schematics/electronics?
It is not uncommon for a conversion to take 1-2 years unless you get a very complete kit, e.g. from an identical accident car, or you throw lot’s of money at it to have custom parts done.

I can weld and use tools, and I am pretty experienced with electronics. I am competent with CAD as well. I will make it work somehow. I am not super concerned about legality as I will just get some dodgy dave to MOT it. My goal for the build is for it to be a street car that can drift at low speeds, and pull hard on the motorway. I don't care about setting laps or grip. I have enough tools in my garage and I have a friend with a metal fabrication shop that I did work experience at. I think it will fit. K24 is smaller than twingo engine, the only concern for me is transmission size. There is actually quite a bit of room from front to back but the twingo has a large muffler and cat which takes most of the space, and obviously I will remove that. The exhaust length is really short to minimal fabrication work is needed for that