[doug2507]

I've been away from this forum for a while but checked in a few weeks ago, your thread was one of the first i sub'd to largely due to the constant seat time and testing. I'll admit, I felt somewhat jealous as that's the position I want to be in myself. Having the car all tricked out is all well and good but it's not about that, it's the ride along the way, getting down with the car and ones own self. I'll get the fianancial stuff out of the way first which is a formality then it's big grins all the way to the finish line.

Don't get me wrong, I'm competitive, cars being built to be at the front, I'm putting reasonable pressure on myself to do the car justice but it's the shiz and giggles along the way that matter most. Life is short, get at it whilst you can, dip your toes into the unknown and deal with the next hurdle as is comes. Walk before run, patience and a cool head wins the race.

 

[MoHo]

Observatory notes here.

We dont see many NA builds of this caliber around here.

I said that in my own special way. I think dude knows and I'll say Them Witches is not telling us everything and he has trix. This is all very good in general moral around here. I for one am excited!

Very easy clutch to use and ideal for a K20,

I to am very happy with mine, so is just about everybody I speak too. I don't think your people would let that mistake happen. Comunication will be key to your success.

however it’s rather boring in the eyes of social media

Aw we love what your doing. Don't beat yourself up any honest person would be drouling over Dougs car. We are all human and that is to error. It's also good to learn from others! Better "him" than me man...lol

 

[doug2507]

Observatory notes here.

I to am very happy with mine, so is just about everybody I speak too. I don't think your people would let that mistake happen. Comunication will be key to your success.

Sorry Moho, maybe lost in translation, I'm not sure what that means...?

 

[MoHo]

I'm not sure what that means...?

As to any inherent mistakes, there's to many people in your camp to let things that important slip. (your new clutch) Thank for letting me clarify sometimes I'm misunderstood.

 

[doug2507]

Ah, OK. Still not sure what my people or people in my camp means, sorry! The only support I've got is from local racers to some extent then an engine builder and a race engineer with a shared passion for chassis / application. Tbh most decisions so far have been my own through logical thought process but every day is a school day and I'm learning as I go (both engine and chassis development have required further learning by myself to the extent that I've disregarded everything I've taken as gospel to date and put my head in the books to take things seriously! ).

This is also why I decided to make a thread relating to the build, there's always potential to pick up new ideas when you open up discussion to others. You'd be surprised how often someone else has a different idea about something and that idea proves to be valuable. I take that approach with my work, even though I know how it'll be done myself, I always offer up the thought process / solution to others to see if we can make improvement.

Everything I post here is cards laid on the table, my own choices. I'd love for someone to turn around and say I'm talking BS then open up discussion as to why. We're only human and there's many different ways to skin a cat...

 

[gotovato]

I can tell you get it. The build process. Everything along the way. It does matter! It’s what makes it real. Plus of course putting together a competitive package to the best of your abilities, funding or other!

It sounds like you’re on the right path to get everything sorted out once and for all this time. There’s going to be tuning and tweaking of course but it sounds like you’ll be racking up that seat time with no issues. It’ll be well deserved for sure.

Looking forward to the next update here. I’m way too excited now for my own build and my own 2024 season lol. Awesome

 

[LotusElise]

boring in the eyes of social media

Who is this, bunch of bored people, loving always having more of everything (film industry, automotive industry, ...)?! 10 years ago a 280 hp 2-Liter was hot, 5 years ago a 600 hp 2-Liter was hot, today 700 hp 2.4-Liter are hot and tomorrow? What's next? Most of that guys can even handle properly a 60 hp car on the track, as they don't know to drive when power is low, thence power is the excuse to cover it. The brave guys know what is good, driver skill development is done there when you challenge yourself. A 700 hp track car challenges way less, because you don't need to touch limits as long as you have 100 hp more on the straight then others.

I have quite a lot racing customers which have less power then the competition, but they win race by race. Why? They know to drive well, no matter on wet, dry, hot or windy conditions and bends are their friends, challenging their skills everytime. When this is challenged, power and everything else can be upscaled a bit.

 

[doug2507]

EP3 rear hub vs DC5R.... +16mm per side, new brake carriers required! Further additional track width on the rear will most likely come from wheel offset rather than spacers although regs allow up to 25mm spacers. The Hart CP035 wheels are about as light as you can get so I'm keen to use them on the rear providing 8J is suitable. More thought required for this at a later date...

 

[gotovato]

Who is this, bunch of bored people, loving always having more of everything (film industry, automotive industry, ...)?! 10 years ago a 280 hp 2-Liter was hot, 5 years ago a 600 hp 2-Liter was hot, today 700 hp 2.4-Liter are hot and tomorrow? What's next? Most of that guys can even handle properly a 60 hp car on the track, as they don't know to drive when power is low, thence power is the excuse to cover it. The brave guys know what is good, driver skill development is done there when you challenge yourself. A 700 hp track car challenges way less, because you don't need to touch limits as long as you have 100 hp more on the straight then others.

I have quite a lot racing customers which have less power then the competition, but they win race by race. Why? They know to drive well, no matter on wet, dry, hot or windy conditions and bends are their friends, challenging their skills everytime. When this is challenged, power and everything else can be upscaled a bit.

You know the truth. Few of us here do.

Overall however most people do not know this fact. It’s too bad. A simple NA build is a joke today. That’s OK. People can wonder why the car is quick. Leave it to that

 

[LotusElise]

People can wonder why the car is quick.

Yeah, surprise them.

 

[gotovato]

Yeah, surprise them.

Always!

 

[doug2507]

Yesterday the front end was bolted back on, albeit with some not so glamorous parts. It'll be sat in a workshop for a while and front end is being changed to took the PCI arms / DC5 front end off and bolted on an old pair of stock EP3 arms / hubs. Don't pay lip service to these, proper race car parts, the more you shake them the lighter they become...😅

Today was more of an admin day making sure my end is squared away for the chassis heading off to the fabricator this week. My tow bus (Disco) is due a service and has a wheel bearing on the way out so asked a friend to jump on towing duties mid week. He still had his DC2 on the trailer from the last hillclimb of this year so a couple of hours were spent unloading it & putting it in the garage despite wind / rain being horizontal, and of course having a chat about car stuff. 😄 It was nice just unloading it and parking it up, true bred hillclimber, sounds awesome, seq box that hates going into reverse, clutch that bites about a foot off the deck, all good stuff!

Got home, had a little brunch on the fly then started making sure everything was good to go for next week...

Seq compressor & air receiver. Still planning on mounting these in front of the fuel tank which will have an alu box made to cover them and i'll use that as a mould for making a CF cover / BHD with carbon / Nomex just like the fuel tank. Air receiver is good to mount horizontally but i'll need to get 4" fire extinguisher brackets on order for mounting. Valve block needs to sit as close as possible to the actuator unlike compressor and receiver so it doesn't compromise shift time, that'll be mounted on the bulkhead with a fabricated alloy bracket for now. Getting it scanned then 3D printed is an option but don't think the weight saving will be worthwhile, job for another day.

Dash was an Aim MXS Strada but it's now gone and i'll be using a Geatronics dash. It's a smaller, lighter, easier to read display and all i really need is gear position / shift indicator whilst driving. I can put half a dozen or so sensor readings on it if i wish, those will only really be used during warm up. I'll wait for the steering column support arrangement to be configured then measure mounting points and most likely have the dash scanned for a 3D printed mount / cowel. The screen is matt but i'd like some form of hood to stop the sun shining on it.

Next up was brakes. Made sure there were no issues with the pedal box and mounting plate. Mounting plate nuts need welded to a support structure so thin wall box between the sills and exhaust tunnel should be spot on (just like the seat rails but smaller). The bolting for the box to plate could do with some trimming, having excess thread serves no purpose apart from adding weight so i'll cut those down to sit flush with the plate. MC's are on the shelf ready to mount but don't really need them at this stage of the game, i know how long the bodies are so know the clearance needed against the bhd / foot plate. The threaded bar on these needs cut to suit so i'll do this when running the brake / clutch lines. I'll mount the pedals as far forwards on the plate as they go as the car will be double driven at some point and the other driver has longer legs. Steering wheel reach is fine for both of us in his DC2 but his pedals are slightly to far away for comfort for me. You do get sliding pedal boxes but they cost an absolute fortune and i'm sure we can find a middle ground when double driven.

Tilton 3 way reservoir also got a look over, 1st time i've had it out of the box. Needs 80mm x 6mm bolts for mounting. It'll probably get mounted on the bhd but that's TBD. I'm also need to give the mount some thought, steel bolts can be replaced with Ti for this or maybe just a 3D printed L-shape bracket and a Velcro strap. For now all it needs is positioned, preferably with captive nuts then i'll worry about the support bracket later.

 

[doug2507]

Last few bits and bobs... (think you can only post 10 photos per post on here so had to split it)

Upper engine mount was bolted together (Innovative mount with the custom bracket the guys at T7Design made for me). I wanted to check the Innovative arm for peace of mind and there is some play but once tightened down it appears to be 'ok'. I'll use as is for now but i'll grab another short OEM pinned stud, no need for the long one. I'll most likely replace these with bolts once the engine is in but might utilise them for engine fitting in the future. Couldn't get an 85A shore mount off the shelf, long lead time for these so spoke with Johhny@Twegiwa and ordered a 75A mount with replacement 85A inserts. DIY vise press doesn't cut it for swapping these out so that'll get done this coming week. Starting to feel like i should get my own press...

Dry sump tank has already been stripped and cleaned, just need to put the brackets on. Decided to weigh these as i'm sure there's weight to be saved, these came in at 288g each and it should be easy to get another 50g+ each off them just from machining. I'm thinking if the weight of the tank can be supported from below as part of the enclosure, then strapping the tank in doesn't require such heavy duty mounting. 3.475kg with brackets & fittings, 6" dia tank (need to double check capacity). There will be slightly more oil in the system than when it was mounted forward of the gearbox there's so maybe a possibility to reduce the tank size. (?) The whole point of moving it isn't about weight saving but to move weight within the wheel centres rather than have it sitting forward of the front axle, having said that i'll still pay attention to weight reduction such as replacing steel braided hose with lighter hose etc. Looks 'race car' but just adds unnecessary weight.

Sump tank catch tank / breather will double up as the box breather, might put a one way valve in the box line though for peace of mind against engine oil / mist reaching the box. This will also be bhd mounted pretty much in line with the sump tank. Things like this will be spec'd by the guy designing the engine, i'll just make sure it's done to spec using the lightest option available. If i can change this out for plastic, it'll happen.

Steering wheel got pulled out of it's bag for the first time in what feels like an eternity. OMP WRC dished wheel (350mm iirc) with NRG quick release. This will be replaced with a 320mm OMP carbon S wheel and Lifeline WTCC quick release weld on boss. Another 800g knocked off the scales....it all add's up and the more weight removed above the axles the better IMO. I must admit, the paddles on the wheel feel really nice, the whole paddle assembly is made to an exceptionally high standard thanks to the brilliance of Neil Wallace@Geartronics.

Lastly for now, just like the wheel, had to pull the seat down from the loft and dust it off. Originally used a Corbeau kevlar seat but bought a Tillett B1 during COVID to chop more weight off the car. Don't think they still make the B1 and it was the only saloon orientated seat they made i think, the rest of the range being for sports (Lotus) / kart etc. It does have quite a low position but the mounts i chose (TB4) are +30mm over the usual ones (TB1) and i've also got the option of changing to their FIA mounts which can have 24mm spacers fitted (up to 2 sets). The downside of that is adding more weight back in but it's at floor level so i won't loose too much sleep over that if that's what needs to happen. Need to wait and see how the seat position feels once the seat rails are welded in and take it from there. This one's like the steering column, won't know until we start playing about with it. (FYI, you can get these with proper Tillet cushions but neoprene is lighter & cheaper so that's what is stuck onto the base / back. 😉 )

 

[doug2507]

Ready for the off...

FL tyre clearly isn't holding air but it'll hold enough for putting it on the trailer!

Front left toe was also quite a bit out but the PCI arms make life really easy for adjusting, very happy with these.

Found out that the face-lift bumper uses a different mounting position up top than pre face-lift. No biggie as the front end will be tubed with mounts to suit the bumper. Decided to use a face-lift bumper as it'll be easier to work with to get the form I want for a mould for making a CF part. The lower lip also lends itself better for an airdam. Both bumpers, wings and boot will be held on with Pit King quick release pins. I'll need to have a chat with the engine designer regarding plenum volume / design for the ITB's as that will most likely impact bumper design. FYI, face-lift front bumpers are a couple of kg lighter then pre face-lift.

Also spent some time reading through the regs again to clarify what I can do with the wings. With up to+55mm track up front on each corner without dropping wheel offset it'll need some serious arches. I know the suspension spec will fit underneath JAS Motorsport arches but they have no venting out of the arch. Think I'll have a chat with my fabricator, come up with a design to suit and do some metal work to get the form done. Doing it this way will give good moulds for parts. Important parts are the tyres need to be covered when looking down on them, covered from rear view from 50mm above the wheel centre and a 120deg minimum covering of the wheel from side on. That allows for good venting on the back of the arch and possibly some cut outs on top although I need to look into the correct way to slope the top vents.

Also weighed the doors since I had them off....

 

[LotusElise]

There is some lightweight approach going on. The little weigh may help when it's weigh plate is undersized to reduce weight too . Serious, the doors are some serious weigh reducers, 7 point something for a door is about what the Lotus door has (15 kg including glas and brackets).

 

[gotovato]

Really loving the weight reduction here. Lightest car I’ve ever driven on track….

probably a 2003 ep3 that has been gutted and stripped, sunroof deleted. Maybe 2400lbs with cage? Had its weak k20a3 engine but man did it feel great under braking and in the corners.

Can’t wait for my turn to go super light weight. One day!

 

[doug2507]

There is some lightweight approach going on. The little weigh may help when it's weigh plate is undersized to reduce weight too . Serious, the doors are some serious weigh reducers, 7 point something for a door is about what the Lotus door has (15 kg including glas and brackets).

There's more weight to come out of them, removing the aluminum window rails and bonding the window to the door would drop weight further and close the big gap they've got to stop rain coming in (win - win). Bottom and rear edges still have potential for a going over with a hole saw but ditching the OE handle mechs would be more benedical, not sure it would be possible though but worth a Google to see if something suitable can be used.

 

[doug2507]

Really loving the weight reduction here. Lightest car I’ve ever driven on track….

probably a 2003 ep3 that has been gutted and stripped, sunroof deleted. Maybe 2400lbs with cage? Had its weak k20a3 engine but man did it feel great under braking and in the corners.

Can’t wait for my turn to go super light weight. One day!

Under 900kg is totally achievable, I'll be happy with 850kg, any less and it's a bonus. Find out what the scales say next year!

 

[doug2507]

Had a think about all bulkhead connections i'll need for fluids last night, quite a few needed indeed....

4x for the oil tank & breather (Scav air out & press. out AN10 / Scav oil out & press. in AN12)
2x for fuel (send / return, size still to be spec'd)
5x for brakes / clutch (3x AN4 feed to pedal box, 1x AN3 return to clutch bearing, 1x AN3 return to front brakes)
1x for shift (Air receiver to valve block)

The majority of these will pass through a reasonably common area so a little care and thought will be needed to keep things tidy on both side. Heat also needs to be another consideration and despite thermal management on the exhaust manifold i still need to route things wisely and apply thermal protection to hoses where needed, especially fuel lines.

Oil hoses in particular need some extra thought. To keep lengths from / to tank at a minimum, ideally I need to run underneath the sump and if i can route these against the flywheel / box dust cover then that should offer some protection should the car go off the beaten track. I'll also have the splitter covering this area also so no major concerns about damaging hoses if i go this route. It'll also mean the oil filters are mounted lower down on the car and moving any weight lower is a win IMO.

The bellhousing of the gearbox needs drilled to allow the inlet & bleed hoses for the hydraulic slave cylinder to pass through. I could just drill holes with suitable diameter for the hose but that would mean having to terminate hose whilst on the car which isn't ideal. Think i'l find a suitable sized oval gromet, drill 2 holes with diameter to match the width of the grommet then cut / blend the middle section out.

After running through most of that in my head I had a look into hydraulic release bearings as this is a 1st for me. Really glad i did as bearing fulcrum / trumpet size is apparently quite important! The clutch i'm using from TTV (140mm) has a spec of 40-50mm for fulcrum, the trumpet that sits in the bearing from Beckert is 50-57mm which puts it out of spec for the clutch. I spoke with Tony@SatchellEngineering today about it and we'll look into a solution. I also still need to shim for clearance between the fulcrum and clutch fingers (seems all hydraulic release bearing videos focus on this only and don't mention fulcrum size!) but won't be able to set that until I've got the the engine built which is a good few months away due to what's going on with it.

I've already got a spreadsheet of jobs to do, parts / labour involved, 3rd party input etc but think i'll start hyper-linking articles / PDF's / YT videos etc so when the time comes i don't have to go do the research again. Pretty sure it'll all come in handy for reference even after the cars back up and running!

Measurements taken and sent off for evaluation...

Trumpet OD:

Bearing ID: (from what i can gather, a 40mm bearing is pretty standard)

Fulcrum outside turn radius: (bye eyeball)

Fulcrum inside turn radius giving a 3.5mm wide shoulder: (bye eyeball)

Clutch finger inside Dia. so minimum spec fulcrum (40mm) runs pretty close to the edge of the fingers:

And max spec of 50mm in relation to the clutch fingers:

Every day seems to throw up something new and despite there being a few apparent hurdles, i'm quite enjoying taking them one step at a time and soaking in all the info i can get.

 

[Bjorn]

Had a think about all bulkhead connections i'll need for fluids last night, quite a few needed indeed....

4x for the oil tank & breather (Scav air out & press. out AN10 / Scav oil out & press. in AN12)
2x for fuel (send / return, size still to be spec'd)
5x for brakes / clutch (3x AN4 feed to pedal box, 1x AN3 return to clutch bearing, 1x AN3 return to front brakes)
1x for shift (Air receiver to valve block)

The majority of these will pass through a reasonably common area so a little care and thought will be needed to keep things tidy on both side. Heat also needs to be another consideration and despite thermal management on the exhaust manifold i still need to route things wisely and apply thermal protection to hoses where needed, especially fuel lines.

Oil hoses in particular need some extra thought. To keep lengths from / to tank at a minimum, ideally I need to run underneath the sump and if i can route these against the flywheel / box dust cover then that should offer some protection should the car go off the beaten track. I'll also have the splitter covering this area also so no major concerns about damaging hoses if i go this route. It'll also mean the oil filters are mounted lower down on the car and moving any weight lower is a win IMO.

The bellhousing of the gearbox needs drilled to allow the inlet & bleed hoses for the hydraulic slave cylinder to pass through. I could just drill holes with suitable diameter for the hose but that would mean having to terminate hose whilst on the car which isn't ideal. Think i'l find a suitable sized oval gromet, drill 2 holes with diameter to match the width of the grommet then cut / blend the middle section out.

After running through most of that in my head I had a look into hydraulic release bearings as this is a 1st for me. Really glad i did as bearing fulcrum / trumpet size is apparently quite important! The clutch i'm using from TTV (140mm) has a spec of 40-50mm for fulcrum, the trumpet that sits in the bearing from Beckert is 50-57mm which puts it out of spec for the clutch. I spoke with Tony@SatchellEngineering today about it and we'll look into a solution. I also still need to shim for clearance between the fulcrum and clutch fingers (seems all hydraulic release bearing videos focus on this only and don't mention fulcrum size!) but won't be able to set that until I've got the the engine built which is a good few months away due to what's going on with it.

I've already got a spreadsheet of jobs to do, parts / labour involved, 3rd party input etc but think i'll start hyper-linking articles / PDF's / YT videos etc so when the time comes i don't have to go do the research again. Pretty sure it'll all come in handy for reference even after the cars back up and running!

Measurements taken and sent off for evaluation...

Trumpet OD:

View attachment 114811

Bearing ID: (from what i can gather, a 40mm bearing is pretty standard)

View attachment 114812

Fulcrum outside turn radius: (bye eyeball)

View attachment 114813

Fulcrum inside turn radius giving a 3.5mm wide shoulder: (bye eyeball)

View attachment 114814

Clutch finger inside Dia. so minimum spec fulcrum (40mm) runs pretty close to the edge of the fingers:

View attachment 114815

And max spec of 50mm in relation to the clutch fingers:

View attachment 114816

Every day seems to throw up something new and despite there being a few apparent hurdles, i'm quite enjoying taking them one step at a time and soaking in all the info i can get.

This is an aspect of clutch engagement leverage that i had never considered before. Thanks for the insight.