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K20Z3 questions

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20K views 33 replies 8 participants last post by  Scourge  
#1 ·
Alrighty, I work at a Honda dealership and I possibly have a chance to get a K20Z3 motor from a 07 Si. The motor is used, approx. 1,300 miles on it. It has the oil pan, block, internals, head, rockers, cams and everything to put it back together(bolts). It may have more or less, I've only opened the crate once to peek at it. It doesn't have things such as intake mani, valve cover, etc.
As I understand, the kid took it to get an oil change at some random place(Firestone i believe), and they put a dent/hole in the oil filter, so it lost some oil. The kid brought it to the dealership and I guess the motor was knocking. But the technion told me it wasn't knocking, instead the timing chain was slapping/making noise, because I learned from him and this site, oil pressure runs the chain tensioner(correct me if I'm wrong). So the insurance company/Firestone bought a new motor, even though, according to the tech he could of just put a new timing chain on it more or less and it would of been ok. The tech could of been bullshitting me, so correct me if anything is false. But anyways, the old motor is sitting in a crate, in the corner and I'm going to see if I can get it. :)
I've been reading for hours on the site, but I didn't see too much about a K20Z3 and what is and isn't compatible with it. I.E. Harnesses, trannys, etc. I understand the 05-06 RSX and 06 SI+ have a higher freq. VSS, and the direction of the shifting(forward- backward thing, I'm sure you know what I mean.) The reason I'd like to know whats compatible with it is because it seems I'd have to find the shifter assembly, tranny, ecu and maybe a harness, basicly everything from a 06+ Si IF I was able to get that motor. To me I'd make sense that say a Type S tranny or a ITR tranny would fit on it, but again I'm a n00b to K series. Even if I'm not allowed to take the motor, I think I finally found what I want to do with my coupe. K swap it! So maybe I'll start saving and piecing stuff together and maybe in a year or so drop it in.
But anways, any info would help, remember I'm new to the K stuff but I have a basic, general idea on what needs to be done to swap it in. Thanks in advance guys!

-Matt
 
#2 ·
u cannot use the 06 si wire harness or ecu, 02-04 type s is best, but u could use ep3 and base rsx stuff, and 05-06 harness but then u need the 05-06 kpro so its better to stick with 02-04 or ep3

u are right about the VSS and the shifter mechanism, but those can be worked around. but you could also use any other k20 tranny if u wanted.

u would have to use an rsx type s TB with an rbc adaptor and the rbc (06 si) intake manifold.

there are small differences in stuff but pretty much its all compatible.
 
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#6 ·
That knocking sound I hope isn't a spun bearing. I killed my engine in my RSX-S a few days after a spun bearing. Heard this was probably due to oil starvation.

Before you pick up the engine, make sure you can physically turn the crank (maybe with a breaker bar or something). My crank is completely seized on my K20A2 from my RSX.

I've got a K20Z3 engine and tranny. Haven't tested any of it out yet. I also have the wire harness for the Si which I'm kinda ripping apart to get an understanding of a few things. But harness cannot connect to the 02-04 RSX ECU both because of the DBW and the connector physically can't.

You already know about the forward-backward motion being switched around on the 06 Si. But you're going to need to be REALLY creative if you want to get that Si shifter to work. I'll try to get you a picture but it extend really far down. A TSX shifter (and cables) is what I'm trying to use but the TSX tranny cable bracket doesn't fit on the Si tranny as far as I know. I've compared the 06 Si bracket with the TSX cable bracket but haven't tried putting the TSX bracket onto the tranny yet. I might have to modify my Si bracket to hold the TSX cables.

Anyway, if you want to avoid those headaches, you can use the RSX-S or ITR (DC5) tranny with the standard aftermarket mounts out there, on Civics/Integras anyway. I think Preludes and Accords K-series mounts will be using a TSX tranny.

Unless you're going with the AEM or Motec stuff, I'd stick with the 02-04 RSX-S wiring and go K-Pro. If you use a stock ECU, you'll have tons of immobilzer related headaches.
 
#8 ·
thanks for your input man. yea like i said the tech said the motor is fine..whether or not he's just bullshitting me or not, i guess ill find out if im allowed to take the motor. even if i can't, im going to save up and do one anyways. i really want to do a k swap.
say if i wanted a 06+ Si tranny, would the mounts by say hybrid racing or hasport work? i thought i read somewhere the k trannys mount differently? this swap would be going into a 96 civic coupe.
thanks again man.
talonxracer said:
Oil pressure does not run the timing chain tensioner, it only provides a damping affect to the TCT's piston.
Click to expand...
ok thanks for clearing that up :up:
 
#7 ·
Oil pressure does not run the timing chain tensioner, it only provides a damping affect to the TCT's piston.
 
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#11 ·
Because people are willing to pay that much. :) And yeah, the Hasport mounts work for sure on the K20Z3 tranny (but not the K24A2 tranny).

If you can find a K20A2 or K20A tranny (maybe even a K20A3 one), go for those as they'll give you the least amount of headaches. I only went for the K20Z3 because the Karcepts kit doesn't fit the Del Sol tunnel perfectly (needs to be grinded and some sheet metal has to be added) and the price of the transmission was not bad ($1000 for a tranny with LSD).
 
#13 ·
yea, id prefer a lsd tranny. what problems will the other ones give you?

k20addict said:
It is a full engine management system that controls almost every parameter for the engine. Also, lots of R&D went into making the k-pro
Click to expand...
yea i understand that. when i saw the price for the first time i was like :wow:
but now i understand why so i don't have a problem with it...


i really appreciate all the responses from everyone, thanks again. this is all really helping me understand everything. :up:
 
#22 ·
Buy it from the insurance company if they claim it. But yeah, I don't get why they're waiting so long. It's like they don't want it. I'd keep trying to work out a deal. Find out who's been talking to the insurance company.

Or, have the guys there "accidentally dispose" of it. ;) Like in your garage. I've heard of dealerships using that bs line when they stole my buddy's "broken" coilover.
 
#24 ·
Maybe the insurance company forgot about it. :) You should offer to test the engine out for the insurance company first though. ;)
 
C
#26 ·
Well I've been searching a lot on here about the K20Z3 swap. I've been reading Scourge's thread on his build up :up::up: to you man, TTLY awesome.

I was beginning to be discouraged because it wasn't a K20A2 yadda, yadda, VSS probs, wire harnesses etc etc. The only thing that concerns me with the Z3 swap is the oil pan to ground clearence. I'm not a LOWrider person, I like a mild drop just enough to reduce the wheel well gap, but defly not a 4X4 person either.

I have the complete '07 K20Z3 swap w/tranny, engine wire harness, charge harness, shifter box and cables, motor mounts, etc. I would like to do the swap in an EG Hatch or Coupe. I have both cars and I'm undecided as to which one to swap in. I've been reading a lot of threads as well. I don't wanna "clog" the threads with questions that were already answered. I guess you can say I don't wanna make make wave with the seasoned K20orgers

This is what I've read so far, please, feel free correct me if I'm wrong, I'm a noob at the K-swaps.

1 - K20Z3 swap is good to go with, though there are some issues with oil pan to ground clearence :eek: but anyway if you don't lowride you should be :up:

a) one option would be to swap RSX-S A2 oil parts ---> into the Z3, then go with K24 oil pan, is tha right?

2 - I need a throttle body, throttle cable, engine wire harness and a PRB computer all from an RSX-S.

3 - Go K-pro of course and a good tuning shop.

4 - Fuel lines and clutch line. Either use stock or inline fuel filter.

5 - Wire jumper harness.

6 - The Z3 intake manifold flows better for high revs, the Si's love to wind up and go. Yhats good to keep, right?

7 - Now here's where it gets tricky, use a TSX Shift box with TSX shift cables, is that correct? I'm still researching this topic

8 - The Z3 tranny, with that VSS that's in there, I'd have to buy a converter module from
a) www.dscustoms.com
or
b) www.dakotadigital.com
or . . . I'm still researching this issue as well . . .

9 - Axles, I ve read about swapping RSX-S something with something inners outers :eek:. I need clarification on this one. OR, just buy an axle kit from one of this sites sponsors :).

Now I'm sure there is much more to it than what I have listed. Please lemme know if I'm on the right track with all of this. I'm not even sure what sites to visit other than the above listed along with www.Karcepts.com, www.Hybrid-Racing.com, www.rywire.com and of course www.Hasport.com

Any help/advise/pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks ahead of time
 
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#27 ·
1. I don't have an answer to that. I'll be mainaining stock height. My suspension will be lowered but my tires will be bigger. :) There was a oil pan clearance thread somewhere. Oil Pan Clearance thread.

2. If you've got the K20Z3, you'll likely have an RBC intake manifold or similar. You'll need an TB adapter like from Karcepts to attach an RSX-S or EP3 throttle body. Note, the K20A3 on the RSX does not have the same TB as the EP3 despite both being K20A3's. The EP3 has an RSX-S throttle body. Also, a Euro Accord R (CL7) has a stock throttle body that will attach to an RBC IM without an adapter but they're hard to come across in North America.

Also, yes about the engine harness. I'm not sure about the throttle cable as I bought mine from Hybrid Racing. As for the PRB ECU, make sure it's from a 02-04 RSX-S and not an 05-06.

3, 4. Yep

5. Not sure what a wire jumper harness is.

6. Keep the Z3 intake manifold. The one on the Si is sought after. Plus, in your setup, it doesn't need to be modified at the head's intake port.

7. There's no product out for this setup yet. Although Hasport is looking into making a bracket to mount TSX cables onto an 06+ Si tranny. There is no shifter kit though so you'll need someone to fab it up. I'll try to get pics of a TSX shifter on the Karcepts kit to see if it's even possible.

8. Yes, you'll need a converter. Or if you have an S2000 cluster, you can feed the VSS directly into the S2000 cluster's VSS IN and connect the S2K cluster's VSS OUT to the ECU and any other system requiring the older style VSS. It just gave me an excuse to buy the S2K cluster. :)

9. The inner swap is reported to work on Hasport mounts. Pretty much all you need to do is use the passenger side axle on the drivers side and vice versa. But the only way that would work is to swap the inners which connect to the tranny or half shaft.

You're doing fine.
 
M
#28 ·
A few questions of my own:

If I am transferring everything to a k02a2 tranny housing (from my Z3 tranny) will i still have to worry about an adapter?

Can i reuse my 07 Si Axles with my hasport mounts?

Do i need to have the 02+ RSX-S wiring harness? Or can I reuse the 07 Si one + my Hybrid Racing harness adapter...

I bought a Karcepts shifter box assembly, can i reuse the cables from my 07 Si? Im assmuing i need a throttle cable as well?

I want to use my 96ish Type R cluster, how can i achieve this using the new tranny housing?
 
#30 ·
I'm not sure what adapter you're talking about in regards to the transmission. The throttle body adapter if that's what you're asking about has to do with the intake manifold you have. And the type of intake manifold you can use depends on the head. But an RBC IM can be adapted to fit a K20A2 style head as well but cutting the IM's built in water port off.

Measure the axles. I'm sure there are tons of people who would love to know if 06+ Si axles work. Compare them to the RSX axle measurements in this thread: http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5701 If the measurements are close to the RSX-S, then it's likely it'll work. I'm going to assume the Si has 36mm axle splines? Maybe you can find out.

The Karcepts shifter box is meant for an RSX-S shifter. The ends of the Si shifter cables will not attach to the RSX shifter. Keep in mind that if you did use RSX shifter cables and shifter with an 06+ Si tranny, your odd numbered gears would be on the bottom and even on top. How do I plan on overcoming this? I'm going to find a welder to make me something to mount my TSX shifter (with TSX cables). BTW, we'd have to wait for a bracket to hold the TSX cables to the Si tranny. Or you could use an RSX-S "shift arm" in the place of the Si's.

The 06+ Si engine harness will not work. It's drive-by-wire and will not even connect to an RSX ECU. Some of the connectors might be nice to have though but keep it uncut in case there's some future use for it or you need one of the connectors. Also, the 06+ Si charge harness will not work. The connector is different. However, you can make an RSX-S charge harness out of it if you have the RSX-S charge harness to engine harness connector. You'll have some extra stuff left over though. I have no idea what the mystery stuff does.

I bought a throttle cable just to have a new throttle cable. I don't know if it's necessary. Doesn't say on Froth's swap list either. I bought mine from Hybrid Racing. I say buy it. It's cheap.

If you have an EK, your cluster should just be plug and play. Plug in the cluster in the stock fashion. Your conversion harness will send everything from your ECU and engine to where it should in your stock dash harness.

If not an EK, start here: Cluster pin-outs for DC2, EG, EK and Del Sol.

Also, check these links in general before I take them off my signature:
Charge harness breakdown: http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=37856
06+ Civic Si vs TSX shifter, cables and tranny: http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38033
 
M
#31 ·
In regards to the tranny setup, I planned on swapping my Z3 tranny's guts into an RSX-S tranny housing. Doing so would bypass any VSS problems seeing as how I would be running a Type-S ECU.

I also purchased the Karcepts DC5 Short Shifter Box, so Im assuming to finish this swap I would need (1) Type S shifter cables and (2) an 02' RSX-S wiring harness. Is the charge harness included in a complete harness, btw? Or is that something I need to purchase seperately?
 
#32 ·
Yeah, you can swap the internals over into the RSX-S tranny. Just be sure you're swapping to a K20A, K20A2 or K20A3 tranny. There's threads about how to do that here. You may also need parts from the A/A2/A3 tranny too since the gear for the old style VSS is missing I believe.

Do not use a K20Z1 tranny though as you'll still have the VSS issues with that. It would only fix the shift arm problem.

And yes, if you transfer everything to an 02-04 RSX tranny, you can use the Karcepts kit, shifter cables and so on. The charge harness may or may not be inlcluded. Just be sure to ask for it. That's the part that hooks up to the fuse box, alternator and battery (and the engine harness of course).
 
D
#33 ·
Looking at doing a 06+ swap (using a donor) into EM2 and need some verification.

Does the k20z3 with z3 transmission bolt up directly using the ESK3 mounts from Hasport? ( I read somewhere that the tranny mount doesn't bolt up.)

If I want to use the 06+ ecu I would have to change out the cluster, cluster wire harness, immobilizer system and gas pedal?

Does the EM2 shifter work in place of the 06+ si? ( i know it works on other k swaps (still have to change shift cable) but I an not sure about the z3.)
 
#34 ·
It's much easier to use an RSX/RSX-S tranny from 02-04. The EM2 is that closely related to the RSX. The 06 Si tranny can work with your shifter if you're fine with your even gears on top and odd gears on bottom. Fixable by swapping Si shift arm with RSX-S (for reverse lockout) shift arm. But then you've got something similar to an 05-06 RSX-S tranny. You can use a VSS converter in this case. Or swap tranny housings. Which would be easier and less time consuming than trying to use the Si throttle body and ECU.

So, the EM2 shifter is almost identical to the RSX. It's got a cable driven throttle body like the RSX. It's wiring is really compatible with the 02-04 RSX, just needs repinning (look up xproductionz). The 05-06 RSX and 06+ Si VSS would need converting or an 05-06 Kpro with repinned harness.
 
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