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Welcome PakiRsx to the best K20 Forum
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...k20a3 motor...with Invidia Cat-backs with Dc sports race headers...skunk2 intake manifold with 70mm everything
Will you swap the A3 valvetrain for a K20A2 one or better for a A2 head? The A3 is the economic version valvetrain pendant, restricting your actual VE lift through IM and CAI almost to zero improvement.

...except for 2 senors that were originally on old intake manifold the big ugly plastic intake and i dont know where to put the 2 senors...
Do you have a picture of them?

Markus
Okay so if I change my valvetrain to the k20a2 will that help the idling go back to normal instead of staying at 2k rpms?
 
Okay so if I change my valvetrain to the k20a2 will that help the idling go back to normal instead of staying at 2k rpms?
Not really, but power-wise as you increase your full load VE :D

Those are the 2 sensors that I don't know where it needs go?
I see only one sensor and a connector in that picture. Check out the K20A2 sensor list at http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=728152 but be aware it's for K20A2 not A3

Then I had this senor that was plugged on the big EGR valve that didn't have a place for the skunk 2 intake to plug too
Does that manifold even fit for the A3 engine?

Sorry for not being more helpfully, but for mixing A2 aftermarket parts with A3 engine stuff you need to do a decision which direction you want to go...power -> upgrade to A2, fuel and emission reduction -> keep the A3 stuff. Keeping both is in terms of parts is a challenge which needs A3 - A2 conversion experts, who can recommend you the right way while knowing all consequences for your engine. I don't know that...I am not well known in the A3 engine harness and control stuff.

Markus
 
PakiRsx - which skunk2 manifold do you have?

Then I have these 3 hoses that don't have room for the new intake so I combined them all together to fit into one. They are the brake booster vaccum line, power steering vaccum line and the idle air assist I believe vaccum line
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http://www.karcepts.com/shop/product.php?id_product=70

Those are the 2 sensors that I don't know where it needs go?
the thing on the right is EVAP purge. skunk2 throttle body doesnt have it and you dont need it so just remove the hose and leave it open on the firewall (dont plug it)
 
I think concerning Skunk2 Street manifold there are some issues:
- there is no Intake Air Bypass Valve that only OEM manifolds have and that is only needed to operate on OEM injectors,
- there is no place for map sensor - you either have place for map sensor in your TB or need special TB adapter that will have one,
- there are no dedicated places for EVAP or Brake Booster - you use holes in the S2 manifold's plenum for that
- there is IACV for K20A type TBs,
- there is no water channel in it so for K20Z type engines you need special adapter that allows managing the water coming from the head.

For people that would like to use this manifold with RBC/RRC/RSP type TB (OEM K20Z TB) or with i.e. ZDX TB (with adapter) you must remember, that this manifold has different bolt pattern than manifolds mentioned above (it has K20A bolt pattern). This means that as far as I know for K20Z type head with or without DBW you need to change TB bolt pattern by welding the plenum intake side or using special adapter that I am not sure even exists.
 
Okay so if I change my valvetrain to the k20a2 will that help the idling go back to normal instead of staying at 2k rpms?
Not really, but power-wise as you increase your full load VE
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Those are the 2 sensors that I don't know where it needs go?
I see only one sensor and a connector in that picture. Check out the K20A2 sensor list at http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=728152 but be aware it's for K20A2 not A3

Then I had this senor that was plugged on the big EGR valve that didn't have a place for the skunk 2 intake to plug too
Does that manifold even fit for the A3 engine?

Sorry for not being more helpfully, but for mixing A2 aftermarket parts with A3 engine stuff you need to do a decision which direction you want to go...power -> upgrade to A2, fuel and emission reduction -> keep the A3 stuff. Keeping both is in terms of parts is a challenge which needs A3 - A2 conversion experts, who can recommend you the right way while knowing all consequences for your engine. I don't know that...I am not well known in the A3 engine harness and control stuff.

Markus
No your good man I just appreciate the time your giving me to help me out but now I totally understand what you mean and yes the intake and throttle body fit perfectly it's just that there's extra vaccum hoses and sensors that doesn't plug into the skunk 2 intake and throttle like I seen the A2 it's way cleaner compared to the A3 because it obviously meant to save gas and be a daily driver I just there was Honda guys at VA but they don't know what to do either :(
 
PakiRsx - which skunk2 manifold do you have?

Then I have these 3 hoses that don't have room for the new intake so I combined them all together to fit into one. They are the brake booster vaccum line, power steering vaccum line and the idle air assist I believe vaccum line
Image

Image

http://www.karcepts.com/shop/product.php?id_product=70

Those are the 2 sensors that I don't know where it needs go?
the thing on the right is EVAP purge. skunk2 throttle body doesnt have it and you dont need it so just remove the hose and leave it open on the firewall (dont plug it)
Ahhh I seen that a lot on eBay the idle assist delete kit and I got the skunk2 pro series intake with the 70mm throttle skunk 2
 
Guys,

I was doing Skunk2 Street manifold dyno test today. The patient is fully built K24/K20 frank 87,5x99 (CR 12,6).

THIS IS SAME DYNO, SAME CAR, SAME DAY, SAME TUNER, SAME TYRES, SAME TEMPERATURES etc.

Pics of a ported S2 manifold:

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Here are dyno graphs of RRC and Skunk2 Street manifold. RRC manifold was opened to 72mm, ported inside and welded. S2 manifold was ported inside, opened to 74mm and had 0,5l spacer.

I couldn't use bigger spacer with S2 manifold as I was limited by FN2 chasis. Also what might be important, RRC was used with Hondata Heatshield Gasket - I couldn't use this gasket with S2, as I would not be able to fit the manifold into the engine bay, so S2 was tested using standard OEM manifold gasket.

RRC dynos were more/less tuned with AFR and VTC. VTEC was 4400rpm on both runs and I didn't change it as I wanted to check overall performance difference of those two manifolds in 5000+ rpm range

When tuning S2 manifold, I tuned AFR precisely and I checked 30-40* VTC settings within the 0-7000 rpm range and 15-40* VTC settings within 7000-8500 rpm range.

Here are the graphs. They are shifted about 400 rpm left as I had my rpm redline set 8200-8400rpm.


Skunk2 (both lines) - best 312HP at 8400 rpm and 303Nm at 6300 rpm:

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Skunk2 (bold line) vs. RRC (thin line):


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There are so minor dimples on S2 graph that I think could be eliminated with some more AFR tuning. But they do not blure the image of the both manifolds.

My conslusions are that these manifolds are a bit different. RRC manifold seems to be a bit better manifold for a DD than Skunk2 Street. It shows tiny few Nm more in the mid range, but the differences are very small and was not felt in the car. Important part is however that when we tried to spin the engine higher, the power curve of S2 manifold was still climbing after 8000 rpm. In that range (after 7500rpm) RRC manifold was starting to give up.

I would say that ported S2 manifold would be a definately better option than ported RBC, which gave worse numbers than ported RRC on that car.

I think that if you have like 8500-9000 rpm red line motor (K24 or K20), then S2 manifold may give you significant amount of additional ponies than RRC will not. It will additionally provide a lot of mid range, that i.e. S2 Ultra Race will not.

Maybe with bigger spacer this manifold would give even better results, but it was not possible for me to check it.
 
I was doing Skunk2 Street manifold dyno test today. The patient is fully built K24/K20 frank 87,5x99 (CR 12,6).
Yesss sir, you did it :D! Thanks deibral for sharing your results, which cause huge effort! I really appreciate it!
  • I would like to ask some question if you don't mind to answer:
  • So both IM, the RRC and the S2 UStreet where polished and measured at the flow bench?
  • Did you measure the runner length of both IM?
  • Does the RRC flange and the S2 UStreet flange have the same runner size, shape and localication?
I am surprised, the VE production of the S2 UStreet manifold tells a different story than the spec'd data it does. According the torque comparison it would tell us the S2 IM has shorter and wider runners and would need more displacement or or and more engine speed like you already did mention. Are those runners even shorter than the RRC runners?

Anyway, awesome work man! I really appreciate it!

Markus
 
Yesss sir, you did it :D! Thanks deibral for sharing your results, which cause huge effort! I really appreciate it!
  • I would like to ask some question if you don't mind to answer:
  • So both IM, the RRC and the S2 UStreet where polished and measured at the flow bench?
  • Did you measure the runner length of both IM?
  • Does the RRC flange and the S2 UStreet flange have the same runner size, shape and localication?
I am surprised, the VE production of the S2 UStreet manifold tells a different story than the spec'd data it does. According the torque comparison it would tell us the S2 IM has shorter and wider runners and would need more displacement or or and more engine speed like you already did mention. Are those runners even shorter than the RRC runners?

Anyway, awesome work man! I really appreciate it!

Markus
I will check runners length till saturday, as the car was left at the workshop. But measuring the runners is a bit tricky as S2 ITBs are ending in the plenum, so to be precise you should, I think, add some lenght to the outside runners length. That does not happen with RRC.

As to your other questions:
1. Both manifolds were ported by the same company.

2. RRC was cut open, ported, then welded together.

3. S2 plenum and ITB were ported as you can see on the picture. The surface of S2 may seem not smooth but I asure you it is 100% smooth as an ass of a baby ;)

4. RRC was only flowbenched with my head to check if it was a restriction and with 320-330cfm (at 28") of the head it was not. But I was not given the separate flowbench numbers of RRC.

5. S2 was flowbenched and you have the numbers I think. If you dont please contact me via e-mail.

What do you mean by "flange"? You mean by intake throat or by head gasket?

Looking at it by eye, I would say that runners are wider and shorter than in RRC. But it has to be measured, because I am not sure.
 
I will check runners length till saturday
Great, thanks :D

5. S2 was flowbenched and you have the numbers I think. If you dont please contact me via e-mail.
Yes, have now both and the measurement conditions. Thanks :)

What do you mean by "flange"? You mean by intake throat or by head gasket?
At the head gasket. Just thought of non aligning runners to the head ports if those of the S2 where e.g. bigger compared to the OEM ones.

Looking at it by eye, I would say that runners are wider and shorter than in RRC.
We will see latest on Saturday :D...looking forward to it!

Markus
 
Great, thanks :D
At the head gasket. Just thought of non aligning runners to the head ports if those of the S2 where e.g. bigger compared to the OEM ones.
Hondata Heatshield Gasket (HHG) was precisely cut for RRC and used with this manifold before. It is a bit thicker like 3-4mm than OEM one.

S2 was set up on an OEM gasket, that I will have to check how it was fitting runners. But knowing ECU-P specialists they would never put a gasket that would cover the intake runners hole. OEM intake gasket is like 1mm thin.

I would not bother temp differences betwean with HHG and without it as I checked IAT every time when making WOT. But as I understand you are thinking about additional lenghtening of the runners with the gasket thickness.
 
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