[6spd_EK]

So that's basically the difference between the worst flowing OEM head and the best, right? (excuse my noobness lol) on a mild setup with stock compression , only rev'ing to 7400 when the head will flow to 9k

Fixed & yea that sums it up... I'll add it appears there could be a restriction in the intake track that rears its head around 6500 to redline according to the map sensor. Probably good for a few more ponies. It's not the actual intake either

 

[BlackNDecker]

Once again, the 20 cfm additional flow yields ~ 20 additional peak hp on both the stage 2 and stock cam motors. Thanks for sharing:up:

This latest test was with the OEM TSX header and exhaust?

 

[6spd_EK]

Sorry I wasn't clear, hytech header & hytech 2.5" exhaust with a catalytic converter

 

[BlackNDecker]

It's interesting that the stock cam'd motor made power everywhere compared with the IPS KME cam'd motor that lost hp and tq just before vtec. We're y'all ever able to tune that power dip out on the first motor?

 

[6spd_EK]

It's interesting that the stock cam'd motor made power everywhere compared with the IPS KME cam'd motor that lost hp and tq just before vtec. We're y'all ever able to tune that power dip out on the first motor?

I mentioned earlier in the thread Larry and/or Luke alluded to the fact they've seen castings vary from bad to worse. Another friend mention he thought rbb castings got worse after 06. The built motor was running an older head. Maybe just coincidence or maybe those guys are right. On the stock motor it Could also be a combination of ferrea 6000 valves? Who knows

Power dip on the KME motor? Are you refering to the low cam? I mentioned ealier we load the dyno at a higher rpm? If so that's so the car can avoid pinging (pump gas + 12.5cr). Ignition timing and vtc is also conservative to help reduce the chances.

Same intake tested on the stock car was tested on the 2.4 kme car & did this

here is a graph from Allmotor98's K24 (12.5 IPS KME RRC DTR header) No tuning - I bet we could have picked up some more power up top with tuning & adjusting vtc

FYI the a/f dipped real rich at 6750 (hence the same power)

Edit: You can also see here one pull the load point was 3250 and the other pull was 3500

 

[BlackNDecker]

Yeah, I was referring to the low cam in the third dyno graph in this thread (aka your MS paint overlay). Thanks for clarifying.

BTW, did I ever PM you about your CNC RSP v-stacks and my idea for a cnc center feed lower plenum?

 

[anthonyfa18]

i know this is a littel off topic but as i can see from reading the rsp head is the best flowing k head out there in stock form, i can see the rbb is one of the worst, now where do the prb and rbc stand for head flow in stock form ???

ps i did :google: but never found the good truth about this

 

[6spd_EK]

i know this is a littel off topic but as i can see from reading the rsp head is the best flowing k head out there in stock form, i can see the rbb is one of the worst, now where do the prb and rbc stand for head flow in stock form ???

ps i did :google: but never found the good truth about this

Luke (Drag) was kind enough to post flow charts of all 4 errr 7 lol but I haven't seen dyno comparisons. My guess is a prb would make up atleast 1/2 the difference. With the rbc just behind it, but I'm just guessing

BlacknDecker I'll PM you in the morning about the rsp & stacks

 

[BlackNDecker]

BlacknDecker I'll PM you in the morning about the rsp & stacks

Maybe we could collaborate to make this happen

 

[Koczeka]

Luke (Drag) was kind enough to post flow charts

I would love to see Luke posting velocity numbers too. Never seen a "big" name Honda head porter doing so. I have seen "unkown" guys doing real research on finding the balance between flow and velocity and achieving nice results.

 

[6spd_EK]

The big name head porters do what they do to put food on the table as a job. No name guys tend to do it for a hobby (for the most part). There is a big difference there.

Luke seems to post more dyno information than any other of the porters, which shows his heads "working"

 

[AWH]

after RSP with Ferrea 6000 (std size) valves. Gained 19whp up top!

Thanks for posting, Greg. Love this kind of stuff. I still refer back to the original comparison in this thread often. Helped me in the decision to buy one of Luke's heads. And now another one... :up:

fyi we were able to eliminate the tq dip from 5000-5700 with a stepped intake w/velocity stack. Getting that to fit is another story LOL

Help me on this one. Was this elimination done after these graphs, before or between? And what size/lengths did you step between? :huh:

 

[6spd_EK]

Help me on this one. Was this elimination done after these graphs, before or between? And what size/lengths did you step between? :huh:

The intake testing on the stock motor was done after the graphs posted - I don't think the graph was saved.

Its the same 3->3.5" stepped intake I have always tested. I might add gain could have been from the intake sticking out of the engine bay (compared to being tucked in the fender). We've seen that happen before but on fully built k24's. Needless to say the it did not change the MAP reading up top

 

[w00t692]

I always laugh when i see people run these straight 3" intakes or even smaller on these engines and somehow think it'll work ok.

When you see a 10 whp gain with a 3.5" intake on a bone stock k20, you tend to realize that maybe that intake tract was a restriction, lol.

 

[AWH]

I always laugh when i see people run these straight 3" intakes or even smaller on these engines and somehow think it'll work ok.

When you see a 10 whp gain with a 3.5" intake on a bone stock k20, you tend to realize that maybe that intake tract was a restriction, lol.

I've done that comparison twice now on my K24's and twice got negligible differences. So the 3.5" setup sits in a box in my garage attic. I must be doing something wrong. :what:

Here was one time: http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=2029697&postcount=136

 

[Joe McCarthy]

In the flow testing I've done on stock heads I've found the PRB and PPA to be as close to identical as the casting process allows, the port volumes are the same as well. Honda Canada sent me a pre production '06 TSX head and it flowed slightly better than the PRB head (+1.5% average). It wasn't any surprise that the original TSX head flowed so little, the port throat is roughly .100" smaller than the PRP/PPA. Haven't flowed an RSP head so I can't comment on that one.
Honda makes fairly consistent castings, but there are always variations in the temperature of the molten Aluminum as its being poured and the cores aren't always going to be dead on as far as position goes, so as-cast its VERY likely one head won't be exactly the same as the next one.
That's the reason I always machine the manifold ports to match the head as closely as possible. Fabricated manifolds are the worst possible scenario in this regard, all of that welding warps the shit out of everything.
Here's a good example of what NOT to do.

 

[6spd_EK]

I did testing a while back with the transition @ or near the TB & didn't do shit. may have lost a hp or too

I am not saying this is the magic design - its paired with a 3.5" velocity stack & a large K&N filter (6" flange ID) - but has worked on a couple of k24s & cracked out H22's
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1445677&postcount=66

edit - ^ thanks for sharing Joe!

 

[AWH]

I did testing a while back with the transition @ or near the TB & didn't do shit. may have lost a hp or too

Exactly my results.

I am not saying this is the magic design - its paired with a 3.5" velocity stack & a large K&N filter (6" flange ID) - but has worked on a couple of k24s & cracked out H22's
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1445677&postcount=66

What's that, a 1" long transition? 2"?

Easy enough to try something like that out next time I am at the dyno. I tend to do stuff like that at the end of a dyno session where I've been working on something else. By then, everything is stabilized...unlike near the beginning when gearbox temps, engine temps, wheel/axle bearings, tire temps/pressure, etc are all moving around. Fans and consistent methodology can only help so much.

 

[DRAG]

Test looks good. Thanks for posting.

Air speed stuff is just sensitive information, and its also not as simple as posting up a graph. I could say xxx average air speed, but the reality is that the air speed is different in different parts of the port.

 

[w00t692]

I did testing a while back with the transition @ or near the TB & didn't do shit. may have lost a hp or too

I am not saying this is the magic design - its paired with a 3.5" velocity stack & a large K&N filter (6" flange ID) - but has worked on a couple of k24s & cracked out H22's
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1445677&postcount=66

edit - ^ thanks for sharing Joe!

ideal distance to transition from 3.5 to 3 is 8 inches from the throttle body.

We saw 10 whp gains on multiple different cars i dunno what to tell ya.

Was it true 3.5" inner diameter setup? or was it 3.5 OD = 3.3 ID.