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AEM vs Hondata: the rumors, the difference, the truth

103K views 117 replies 49 participants last post by  signalpuke  
#1 ·
all info on this first post taken froma prior post labeled IPS vrs Crower in the all motor forum

http://www.k20a.org/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=46319

katman said:
I just wanted to say a few things about the AEM EMS 30-1070/1030, being that I work at AEM.

First off and obviously in defense of the EMS, the 1070 wasn't released at the same time as the KPRO. It was released about a year or so later, hence the reason why the KPRO is a way more popular ecu over the 1070 EMS.

I was running a KPRO in my 6zigen EG, until i started working here in early Feb. 05, where my vehicle became a test mule for the 'hybrid' use of the 1070. The KPRO is obviously a great ecu, but I've put it on the shelf for the time being in order to better learn (for myself) the world of the EMS.

Originally, the 1070 was based/designed off the US 02-04 RSX-S, but also works for hybrid K20/EG/EK/DC2/etc use, but there really hasn't been a startup calibration made for 'hybrid use', even tho the K20A2 cal will technically work. We leave that up to the end-user to do. Yes, there have been issues in RSX's with certain part of the gauges not working along with A/C functions not working, but thats not an issue for me, and I believe those issues have been resolved not too long ago for you RSX owners with the updated 1030 EMS (which is replacing/superceding the 1070).

When we first slapped the 1070 in my EG, it wouldn't start...and that was because the fuel pump relay pin location on my wire harness was setup for a JDM ECU (E10 JDM FPR location); added a wire to E1 (US FPR location) and spliced it into the underdash EG wire harness and the car started. So, now I have both E1 & E10 spliced into my EG's A7 FPR wire and can alternate between KRPO & 1070 if I'd like to and not worry about the FPR anymore :cool:

A couple months ago, we created a calibration for a JDM K20R engine that is based off of my car/engine for those that didn't know. "K20A.v1.11.cal" is the cal and is included with the latest version of AEM PRO.

We made a baseline run with the KPRO as a point of reference using a tuned KAL I was using from Dan Phan (Rcrew); We then began tuning the 1070 to my engine. Btw, I have I/H/E/and an Rcrew P.I.M.P.. When we were finished tuning the 1070, the end result was pretty close as the KPRO but made about 2hp more, except in a few areas we gained a little bit of low end torque with the 1070....but overall it was just about broke even between both ECU's with my engine, dynoing around 220whp.

Now, the optional advantages of an EMS over the KPRO that people are wondering about are as follows:

- option to shut off the alternator at certain thresholds
- boost control (anti-lag/2-step)
- traction control
- sequential tranny control
- staged injection
- you can setup the EMS to run any injector(s) & any sensor(s) you want for whatever reasons.
- controls VTEC and iVTEC obviously
- custom cam & crank setup
- custom ignition setup (wasted spark, coil on plug, etc)
- individual cylinder trims
- run speed density or ALPHA N (for ITB use)
- and so much more, you almost wanna pull your hair out :D ...the list goes on, but these are the main big reasons why the EMS is on a higher plane than the KPRO.

So, far I'm pleased with the use of a 1070 in my K20 EG. Though, I do have to admit that KPRO software is a bit more user friendlier than AEM PRO (we're working on this!). Getting an EMS tuned properly should be performed by a certified EMS tuner if you wanna take most advantage of a 1070 in either a hybrid vehicle or RSX-S. The EMS really is a semi-complicated ecu to work with when it comes down to tuning. I think of it as a more serious engine management system vs. the KPRO - KPRO being a chipped Honda ecu.

katman said:
After some clarification with my coworkers, the 1070 is technically our 'hybrid' ecu and is sold as just that - not specifically as an RSX ecu - because of the issues with the RSX gauge & A/C functions. Internally, the 1030 box has always been the RSX ecu which is going to be released in about a week or so and has been under development a bit longer than the 1070, hence it's late release.

Again, the 1070 IS sold as a 'hybrid' or as we call it "Swap Box" ecu, not as an RSX ecu for those of you running into problems with your RSX. The 1030 is the ecu you RSX owners want. The 1030 can be used as a hybrid swap ecu, that's why the 1030 is going to be replacing the 1070 shortly.

So, for those who bought the 1070 for RSX use and are having gauge & A/C problems, you might want sell your 1070 to a K20 hybrider and pick up a 1030.

Flashing the 1070 EMS won't do anything to fix the gauge & A/C function issues the 1070 has in the RSX - you'll need to upgrade to a 1030 box. The 1030 has an updated PCB board that differs from the 1070 PCB board and is also used in conjunction with your factory RSX ecu via wire harness.

For the ones wondering about the AEM Honda EMS part numbering system:

1000/1001 - OBD1 EMS (1001 is obsolete now)
1002 - NSX EMS (OBD1)
1010 - OBD2b EMS
1012 - S2000 EMS
1020 - OBD2a EMS
1030 - RSX ecu (taking longer than expected to complete as stated above)
1040 - Updated smaller OBD1 EMS (supercedes the 1000 box)
1050 - updated smaller OBD2b EMS (supercedes 1010 box)
1052 - Updated smaller S2000 EMS (supercedes 1012 box)
1060 - Updated smaller OBD2a EMS (supercedes 1020 box)
1070 - K20 hybriders 'Swap Box'
1080 - OBD-0 EMS (soon to be released)
1081 - OBD-0 EMS for 88-91 prelude (soon to be released)

Q:
1BadRSX-S said:
Knowing this, this brings me to another question. When I bought the 1070 I was told it was for the RSX. The ECU is still in the box and has never been removed. The box is still in perfect condition that it was sent to me. My question is can I send everything back to AEM for the 1030. A trade? Again everthing is the way it was shipped in perfect condition and nothing has been removed from the box.

A:
katman said:
You'll have to take that up with the shop you purchased your EMS from.
 
#2 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

nikos if this thread is a problem, move it, erase it or do waht you need to do. but just to let you kow i am not trying to be a nuesence, just a helper :D

p.s. feel free to post any related info on the topic
 
#4 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

hey katman. do you have any dyno charts of the cal on your motor? And are you running a UEGO or a stock wideband?
 
#5 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

98specR said:
hey katman. do you have any dyno charts of the cal on your motor? And are you running a UEGO or a stock wideband?
I'm running a UEGO sensor and I don't have any dyno sheets of my run(s) at the moment.
 
#7 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

finally got the car running tonight, but was wondering how hard it is to uplaod a base map onto my EMS?

P.S. got it running on the stock ecu
 
#10 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

DWCHKYPMP20 said:
finally got the car running tonight, but was wondering how hard it is to uplaod a base map onto my EMS?

P.S. got it running on the stock ecu
uploading a base map is really easy... if you have used Kpro, its the same exact way too... you go to files and open up the files, there will be like a few calibrations to choose from, just click and it will upload. Really easy. if you have it in a swapped car, you might run into some wiring issues if you have a hasport pnp harness.... theres nothign wrong with the hasport harness, its just that since the EMS does not have to go through relays to get the car started you might have to end up jumping a relay. Im talking to Brian G right now to find out what we can do about it.....As of righ tnow, i have to jump a wire on the 02 relay and i still have to leave in the primary 02 sensor so that it can complete teh circuit even though its actually reading off of the UEGO sensor... Katman, if you have any tips for the wiring part, please let us know....
 
#11 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

nikos said:
I am planning to run a k24a2/k20a2 with ITBS.. Are they any advantages to one of the other?

Any K series powered drag racers into the 10s with AEM?

The big advantage here is that they have the speed density and Alpha N feature where you can tune the throttle bodies through the tps and not through the map sensor. With hondata, if you want to make it work accurately, you would have to tap into each cylinder and get vaccum lines to run into a vaccum blcok and have the MAP sensor hooked up to that. Through out the whole powerband, we made an extra 3-10 hp difference with the EMS compared with the kpro biut with the kpro ending up with the most WHP.
 
#12 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

2fastxeg said:
Really easy. if you have it in a swapped car, you might run into some wiring issues if you have a hasport pnp harness.... theres nothign wrong with the hasport harness, its just that since the EMS does not have to go through relays to get the car started you might have to end up jumping a relay. Im talking to Brian G right now to find out what we can do about it.....As of righ tnow, i have to jump a wire on the 02 relay and i still have to leave in the primary 02 sensor so that it can complete teh circuit even though its actually reading off of the UEGO sensor... Katman, if you have any tips for the wiring part, please let us know....

I actually have no experience with the Hasport harness. I'm personally running an Rcrew harness, but I'm assuming they're very similiar in design. As I've mentioned before, the whole fuel pump relay (FPR) may be a slight issue for some.
 
#13 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

ok when we got it running last night, the fuel pump wouldnt prime, it just stayed pumping. not sure if that is normal. also i have the AEM wide band. my basic question, since i have no experience with k-pro or any hondata/AEM style ecus, can i just bring the aem module and upload the calibrations from my PC or do i need a lap top?

and also katman, was just wondering if you would lend me the map from your car, as i am sure it has some time into it :rolleyes: the car the motor is in is jay's old RHD blue dc-2....
 
#14 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

DWCHKYPMP20 said:
ok when we got it running last night, the fuel pump wouldnt prime, it just stayed pumping. not sure if that is normal. also i have the AEM wide band. my basic question, since i have no experience with k-pro or any hondata/AEM style ecus, can i just bring the aem module and upload the calibrations from my PC or do i need a lap top?

and also katman, was just wondering if you would lend me the map from your car, as i am sure it has some time into it :rolleyes: the car the motor is in is jay's old RHD blue dc-2....

LAPTOP for sure because you need a way of powering the ECU up (through your wire harness).

Oh cool, you dropped a K into Jay's ex RHD DC2 eh? nice!
my cal is located here:
http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/download.php?id=3867
 
#16 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

RC000E said:
Does the AEM have the same datalogging and nitrous control features of the Kpro?
hell yeah it does =)

You can download the latest version of AEM Pro, tinker with it on your PC to get a feel for the software and see what features it has ;)

[edit]
EMS has an internal and external data logging feature.
 
#18 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

RC000E said:
Oh really....good shit. I am gonna have to go check that out. Does Hondata offer that as well?
I believe Hondata does have data logging, not sure about nitrous control tho.
 
#19 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

katman, i have an aem swap box but without a uego. will i still be able to run your cal?
 
#20 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

98specR said:
katman, i have an aem swap box but without a uego. will i still be able to run your cal?
you sure can use it. You might need to disable 02 feedback control though.
 
#21 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

Yeah, the Hondata has nitrous control and single wire output feature, I meant something else.

Has anyone used the AEM's automapping on a K series yet to verify it's ability? Was there any dyno comparison done versus a manual tune?
 
#22 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

katman said:
you sure can use it. You might need to disable 02 feedback control though.
thanks :up: . does that mean i can't just use my stock wideband o2?
by the way was your cal more geared towards the road course or straight line; meaning was is tune for good mid to high end response or top end hp?
 
#23 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

98specR said:
thanks :up: . does that mean i can't just use my stock wideband o2?
by the way was your cal more geared towards the road course or straight line; meaning was is tune for good mid to high end response or top end hp?
It was tuned for all-round good power through out the power band. VTEC is set at 3400rpm and has some fatty midrange, top end is great too.

Using a factory honda 02 sensor isn't suggested to be used with the EMS; because the stock 02 has inconsistent AFR readings at higher temperature levels (can't handle higher RPM heat ranges and keep consistent readings) because of a lame internal 02 heater, but the factory 02 seems to be ok at cruising levels, which makes sense. The AEM Uego 02 sensor is highly suggested to be used instead.

For the time being, if you're going to run my CAL, I would just disabled the 02 until you get a UEGO 02 sensor. Actually the 02 is disabled by default in our K20 cals.
 
#24 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

cool thanks katman. i really appreciate you taking the time to explain that to me.
k20a cal here i run!!!
 
#26 ·
Re: cont. AEM vrs hondata. the rumors, the difference, the truth

katman said:
LAPTOP for sure because you need a way of powering the ECU up (through your wire harness).

Oh cool, you dropped a K into Jay's ex RHD DC2 eh? nice!
my cal is located here:
http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/download.php?id=3867
its actually my buddy buck's but the time i have been putting into it i could almost call it mine. ok i need to find a lap top then, thanks for the cal. and thanks for all the info katman!!

i already asked this in another thread, but i want to hear it from katman..... the only o2 i need is the AEM wideband right?