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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Discussion Starter · #1,061 ·
There are days where I'm jealous of your local companies. For example just a few miles away from Bosch. That's wild. There is a Bosch office down by the strip district here in Pittsburgh.
Which one do you mean? The local head quarters of Daimler Truck, Cellcentric, Mercedes-Benz and both, AMG and HWA as well as BOSCH and Porsche, all in a circle of 20 miles? There are a lot more, AUDI Motorsport is here, AVL has a huge development and test center here, and many more. You can only work for one of them ;). I would prefer to work on my own company fulltime, doing the race engine stuff all day. I could be jealous of the markets in the US, e.g. like in Texas, the race industry has a much bigger volume there for small companies.

Injector test can't be more cut and dry. Clearly underperforming.
Unfortunately yes. I will see what they reply about my demand to solve it.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Discussion Starter · #1,062 ·
Yesterday an employee of our company has quit, which will challenge the company budget. I will set the DAMPFHAMMER HD project on ice as long as the we know how we win that challenge. Beside that I will concentrate on bringing the DAMPFHAMMER back to an reliable dyno to do a clean run for a comparable result to get this thread here to the finish line to find out who won the bit.
 

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Yesterday an employee of our company have quitted, which will challenge the company budget. I will set the DAMPFHAMMER HD project on ice as long as the we know how we win that challenge. Beside that I will concentrate on bringing the DAMPFHAMMER back to an reliable dyno to do a clean run for a comparable result to get this thread here to the finish line to find out who won the bit.
sorry to hear they quit.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Discussion Starter · #1,065 ·
Actually there is no real progress to show here, we work on the cooling system of the engine bench and the 1/4 mile drag Quattro. A little overview what is the status:

DAMPFHAMMER-project:
Car sleeps still in the garage. Next step is dismantle the short block and head for investigation regarding the earlier and lower peak power compared to the simulation. Up to 8200 rpm I see a good match of simulation and measurement. The flat torque post that point was not seen in the simulation, which saw peak power at 8500 rpm and peak power at 320 hp not at 310 hp. Understanding the root cause is important for the next version of it.

DAMPFHAMMER-HD-project:
I've invested a lot of time to run down a parameter matrix for header, exhaust, KAT, port-, valve, valve timing design, intake, intake manifold and so on to ease our work and part effort. There are a few topics I have to clarify like crank assembly efficiency vs. cost of parts and that kind of challenges. Cost of parts is a major topic, as the invest is in a range of 18,000-25,000 Euro depending on expansion stage and how much knowhow I buy or do my own. Maybe I need to sell parts of the DAMPFHAMMER to fill up the budget a bit.
 

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Actually there is no real progress to show here, we work on the cooling system of the engine bench and the 1/4 mile drag Quattro. A little overview what is the status:

DAMPFHAMMER-project:
Car sleeps still in the garage. Next step is dismantle the short block and head for investigation regarding the earlier and lower peak power compared to the simulation. Up to 8200 rpm I see a good match of simulation and measurement. The flat torque post that point was not seen in the simulation, which saw peak power at 8500 rpm and peak power at 320 hp not at 310 hp. Understanding the root cause is important for the next version of it.

DAMPFHAMMER-HD-project:
I've invested a lot of time to run down a parameter matrix for header, exhaust, KAT, port-, valve, valve timing design, intake, intake manifold and so on to ease our work and part effort. There are a few topics I have to clarify like crank assembly efficiency vs. cost of parts and that kind of challenges. Cost of parts is a major topic, as the invest is in a range of 18,000-25,000 Euro depending on expansion stage and how much knowhow I buy or do my own. Maybe I need to sell parts of the DAMPFHAMMER to fill up the budget a bit.
You just need to start selling your dampfhammer version 1 blueprints
 

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You just need to start selling your dampfhammer version 1 blueprints
I would hold off on that for the time being. Advertise by having customers send in engine cores & RSP heads to be transferred into dampfhammers. That way they are 100% invested into the whole package and that being the only way the dampfhammer intake manifolds, headers per chassis/spec, port work, valve work, custom crank, and a uploaded base to advanced tune can leave his shop. It would be much harder to reverse engineer, allowing him to stay out in front much longer.

As far as making headers work for different chassis, that would come down to ordering a header for example - a DC5 and postioning it on a jig table with the mock-up engine, firewall, sway bar etc mocked up. Then either returning the header or selling it after the jig is made. That would be much easier than buying frontclips to make headers that fit or finding the chassis themselves.

Just buy or make a long metal table that can have the jigs tack welded to the table for easy reproduction. I should fly out to Germany to help Markus to build the jig table for around 6-8 different applications. Having frontclips would be ideal but expensive. I could make it work with out them, I just need engine mounts, bare head,block, valvecover, etc to work with. and that can be used over and over again. Companies like Hasport buy frontclips, use personal cars, or buy rolling chassis to build mount for. Same process, but using a metal table would be easier and cheaper IMO and would take up less room.

Sounds like fun to me.
 

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I would hold off on that for the time being. Advertise by having customers send in engine cores & RSP heads to be transferred into dampfhammers. That way they are 100% invested into the whole package and that being the only way the dampfhammer intake manifolds, headers per chassis/spec, port work, valve work, custom crank, and a uploaded base to advanced tune can leave his shop. It would be much harder to reverse engineer, allowing him to stay out in front much longer.

As far as making headers work for different chassis, that would come down to ordering a header for example - a DC5 and postioning it on a jig table with the mock-up engine, firewall, sway bar etc mocked up. Then either returning the header or selling it after the jig is made. That would be much easier than buying frontclips to make headers that fit or finding the chassis themselves.

Just buy or make a long metal table that can have the jigs tack welded to the table for easy reproduction. I should fly out to Germany to help Markus to build the jig table for around 6-8 different applications. Having frontclips would be ideal but expensive. I could make it work with out them, I just need engine mounts, bare head,block, valvecover, etc to work with. and that can be used over and over again. Companies like Hasport buy frontclips, use personal cars, or buy rolling chassis to build mount for. Same process, but using a metal table would be easier and cheaper IMO and would take up less room.

Sounds like fun to me.
Your right of course but that doesnt help me in nz. Being at the bottom of the world makes shipping very cost prohibitive.

I'm just kidding around anyway, i don't have the time or money to build a race motor from scratch.
 

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Your right of course but that doesnt help me in nz. Being at the bottom of the world makes shipping very cost prohibitive.

I'm just kidding around anyway, i don't have the time or money to build a race motor from scratch.
I am not anymore right than you. My insight came from Markus's own words basically. Him not wanting people to back engineer his design until he can get far enough ahead of the world, so when they copy him which they will, he is already on to the next three designs before the 1st is sold in mass blueprint. Some people will buy a engine just to reverse engineer it.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Discussion Starter · #1,070 ·
You just need to start selling your dampfhammer version 1 blueprints
You mean my coaster drawings?

I would hold off on that for the time being. Advertise by having customers send in engine cores & RSP heads to be transferred into dampfhammers. That way they are 100% invested into the whole package and that being the only way the dampfhammer intake manifolds, headers per chassis/spec, port work, valve work, custom crank, and a uploaded base to advanced tune can leave his shop. It would be much harder to reverse engineer, allowing him to stay out in front much longer.
Interesting approach.

Being at the bottom of the world makes shipping very cost prohibitive.
A good old Kiwi told me about the landscape he lives in, it felt like my homeland. Being at such a place is the top of the world, I know it, I live at one of those :love:.

Cloud Sky Plant Mountain Plant community


Some people will buy a engine just to reverse engineer it.
Juup, I need to have steps ahead as well as prize challenges as well as stepped packages.
 

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Juup, I need to have steps ahead as well as prize challenges as well as stepped packages.
Yeap... This is the type of brainstorming needed to do something like this correctly. I like the stepped packages idea.

Also requiring customers to pay up front to help with design and production costs. Selling the basemap tunes or finalized tunes comes last after everything else has been purchased.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Discussion Starter · #1,072 ·
Selling the basemap tunes or finalized tunes comes last after everything else has been purchased.
Yeap that is also a point we mentioned. Tuning of it is an important stuff, as this thing was so untypical to tune. I've spent over 20 h for idle tuning to get all correction tables on spot, now it idles very smooth.
 

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but this is mostly because of the ECU you are using requiring to set-up everything from scratch.
For a typical NA or SC build, a Honda OEM ECU based ECU such as Hondata or Doctronic will yield OEM alike idle within minutes.
 

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but this is mostly because of the ECU you are using requiring to set-up everything from scratch.
For a typical NA or SC build, a Honda OEM ECU based ECU such as Hondata or Doctronic will yield OEM alike idle within minutes.
My old tuner spent 4 days straight tuning my old SCK24a2 so it would have multiple fuel maps and tuned each gear. It was his first SCK24, though he spent countless hours tuning his SCK20 with SC cams before he did mine. Must be nice to own a Dynapack 3000...
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Discussion Starter · #1,075 · (Edited)
but this is mostly because of the ECU you are using requiring to set-up everything from scratch.
For a typical NA or SC build, a Honda OEM ECU based ECU such as Hondata or Doctronic will yield OEM alike idle within minutes.
Yeap, that way is easier to dial in. But mine was also running from 1st start on. I use also the OE actuators (IACV, injectors, spark) to control engine speed via the same method of controlling it, a cascaded PID circuit around ignition timing and air mass. I've started with the same fuel mass setup I've translated from Honda ECU into the AEM Infinity 508. It run around 950 rpm from the first start on.

Differently to the OE setup, I had to tune the PID parameter of both and improve the correction tables for fuel. I also did testing around mixing of 1st and 2nd fuel stage. Finally it runs within 20 [email protected] rpm from -10 to 20 °C and atmospheric pressures from 0.91 to 1.12 bar m of altitude, which is not bad for a 310 hp-2-Liter-NA engine. I've revised a 290 hp tune of a 4Piston K330 engine, which run fine at 1000 rpm, much more rough and not tested for different altitudes and ambient temperatures. To get there is not easy, but it get easier using the ready to go OE ECU and OE IACV.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Discussion Starter · #1,076 ·
My old tuner spent 4 days straight tuning my old SCK24a2 so it would have multiple fuel maps and tuned each gear. It was his first SCK24, though he spent countless hours tuning his SCK20 with SC cams before he did mine.
Yeap, tuning for racing is challenging if you go into the details of how the individual racer like the engine to behave so that he can feel the car as part of his own body control. Sometimes having the right hardware setup need iterations to accommodate the drivers capability and style, which need even more time beside shaping the sculpture from scratch till a shiny status.
 

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465wbhp/397wflbs torque if designed properly? For my guess? On the Dyno finishing day... Around 420wbhp/400wflbs of torque. For the square bore build!! It will be a saucy and responsive beast.
 

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465wbhp/397wflbs torque if designed properly? For my guess? On the Dyno finishing day... Around 420wbhp/400wflbs of torque. For the square bore build!! It will be a saucy and responsive beast.
@maniaczach.zm Welcome to the best forum ever created... How can we be helpful?


I am attempting to declare the reference you are referring to? Are you talking about a personal build, a turbo build, a supercharger build? Please go into detail?
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Discussion Starter · #1,079 ·
Welcome @maniaczach.zm to K20a.org.

465wbhp/397wflbs torque if designed properly? For my guess? On the Dyno finishing day... Around 420wbhp/400wflbs of torque. For the square bore build!! It will be a saucy and responsive beast.
Thanks for your guess 😊. I guess you made a guess for my guessing game? That would be 232.5 whp/Liter from a NA engine. Maybe possible if the concept goes into a V8 2-Liter-NA-concept. But 200 wftlb/Liter aren't possible in allmotor style with conventional fuel, maybe with highly oxygenated and very fast reacting fuel, sort of rocket fuel. My guessing game was related to 93 octane fuel.

What is your K-series project all about? Do you need support?
 

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But 200 wftlb/Liter aren't possible in allmotor style with conventional fuel, maybe with highly oxygenated and very fast reacting fuel, sort of rocket fuel.
VP makes a wonderful 103 octane unleaded oxygenated race fuel & the average cost per gallon was $8.00 in 2008. My old tuner purchased it by 55 gallon drums, which was almost the exact same cost paying by the gallon sold at $8.00 per gallon. So when his customers wanted to run race fuel for Friday night grudge matches or needing to fill containers for going to the track, the service was available. The same guy stopped tuning fo the public and only for motorsports. You must have proof of being involved in SCAA/ NASA schooling, hold a race permit etc. or he will not tune. That fuel is like gaining 10whp or better.
 
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