Looks like you are hard at work, such a nice looking engine room ! Did you go to school or receive training in engineering? Those are some complicated installs I would guess. Looking forward to seeing the first tests 👍
You want to win up to $50? The 86.5x86 rebuild question!
861 - 880 of 891 Posts
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Thanks KBuilt, me too.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Update on the engine dyno.
Pumps are roughly installed (piping, electric supply):
![103905]()
![103906]()
![103907]()
Updates to the flow bench:
Wired mini PC and the flat screen in as well as the 12 V and 240 V consumers. Started the mini PC, was a used one from Ebay, it was locked to guest only account. Need to solve this to be able to install the ProfiLab SW for the bench control.
Bought a PPA head of a member of K20a.org as well as an RBB head from a buddy's friend. These two stock heads and the stock RSP head will be my basis to learn why those heads are so different in flow. Especially the low to mid lift top dog PPA will be interesting to see what makes it so flowy there. So to say these are the flow bench operation learning curve enhancers. I am sure once it runs, a lot of tools will be necessary to get the details out of them.
Pumps are roughly installed (piping, electric supply):
Updates to the flow bench:
Wired mini PC and the flat screen in as well as the 12 V and 240 V consumers. Started the mini PC, was a used one from Ebay, it was locked to guest only account. Need to solve this to be able to install the ProfiLab SW for the bench control.
Bought a PPA head of a member of K20a.org as well as an RBB head from a buddy's friend. These two stock heads and the stock RSP head will be my basis to learn why those heads are so different in flow. Especially the low to mid lift top dog PPA will be interesting to see what makes it so flowy there. So to say these are the flow bench operation learning curve enhancers. I am sure once it runs, a lot of tools will be necessary to get the details out of them.
Glad to hear you were able to source the cylinder heads, did you get away without paying an arm and leg for shipping ? 😅. What do those pumps do? The one feeding the green machine on the right and the black on the left. Does the engine dyno use hydraulics Or air compression to create load /braking ? I’m not too familiar with how they function.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Not really, around 285 USD. Almost 200 % more then normally. But anyway, it was a better deal as I got from a local dealer. So the better won
.These pumps supply the cooling water for them. The load is created by eddy current fields, and all power is transferred into heat (same as subways use for braking). The heat (= power of the engine) will be carried away by the cooling water and will be re-cooled with an external heat exchanger to air.
Very cool, thanks for explaining 👍 looks like the budget for these projects is considerable 😎Not really, around 285 USD. Almost 200 % more then normally. But anyway, it was a better deal as I got from a local dealer. So the better won
These pumps supply the cooling water for them. The load is created by eddy current fields, and all power is transferred into heat (same as subways use for braking). The heat (= power of the engine) will be carried away by the cooling water and will be re-cooled with an external heat exchanger to air.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
You are welcome.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Made some progress, dyno cell is almost done. Basic stuff is on place where it should be and is installed.
![104140]()
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Also stage 1 of our engine and dyno cooler setup is done. Here the piping for the dyno coolant piping (right, the two, coming out of the wall). There is a T-fitting, where it can flow to a 2000 liter heat storage (water based) or...
![104141]()
![104142]()
Piping to the boiler setup (2000 Liter) for the shop and house heating. So not too much room to tune a 300 hp engine at WOT.
![104143]()
The four left pipes are planned to take the heat out of the heater room into a roof table cooler, where we are unlimited in tuning time, even in summer. This will be stage 2 of the cooler setup.
Piping to the boiler setup (2000 Liter) for the shop and house heating. So not too much room to tune a 300 hp engine at WOT.
The four left pipes are planned to take the heat out of the heater room into a roof table cooler, where we are unlimited in tuning time, even in summer
. This will be stage 2 of the cooler setup.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Got the PPA cylinder head from a member here from the US. Super service, super fast shipping, great package. Many thanks for that @mikercp !
![104144]()
Before cleaning it was cleanable 😉.
![104145]()
After cleaning in the washing machine it looks like new. That head have totally different ports. From what I've seen they are surface-wise almost at the level of the RSP head, much smoother finish then the PRB heads.
![104146]()
Not my best picture. The surface is very fine and the short turn feels different to the PRB head, but also to the RSP head. From the soot layers in the intake port one can say the opening angle is quite much, there are definitely stalling sections. After cleaning you can't see them as good as before.
![104147]()
Here we are with the uncleaned port, where you clearly see were the wake spaces are of this port. It has a bit to do with the stalling of the flow and of course with the injector sprayed droplets, which have their own impulse and direction. Anyway, we will see what this head does on the bench and why it is so good below the 8 mm valve lift on intake side.
Before cleaning it was cleanable 😉.
After cleaning in the washing machine it looks like new. That head have totally different ports. From what I've seen they are surface-wise almost at the level of the RSP head, much smoother finish then the PRB heads.
Not my best picture. The surface is very fine and the short turn feels different to the PRB head, but also to the RSP head. From the soot layers in the intake port one can say the opening angle is quite much, there are definitely stalling sections. After cleaning you can't see them as good as before.
Here we are with the uncleaned port, where you clearly see were the wake spaces are of this port. It has a bit to do with the stalling of the flow and of course with the injector sprayed droplets, which have their own impulse and direction. Anyway, we will see what this head does on the bench and why it is so good below the 8 mm valve lift on intake side.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Yeah, made some progress. Also on the mobil flow bench. Computer is installed, harness is on the way to be finished. Things to do are ordering a valve lift mechanism...thinking about HPT Auto spring compressor tool, modifiying it to use a micro meter screw instead of the bolt.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Flow bench:
Ordered two spring compressor tools, which will arrive end of this month.
I've measured the head volume of the RSP head with PPA/PRA valves and a NGK BR7EIX spark plug. Gave me 50.5 ccm at 20 °C water temperature. I was surprised about it was that small as Luke from 4Pistons (member @DRAG) stated once their measurements of the K-series heads varies from 51.0-52.5 ccm. Seems the RSP meets the requirement what all piston companies are using: 50.5 ccm per head volume.
BTW, that would mean the CR of the DAMPFHAMMER is at least 12.84:1 cold and at redline in hot conditions about 13.79:1. Dynamic wise it would be with my cams, depending on VTC, from 12.3:1 to 12.5:1 cold...hot I didn't dive deep, the open and closing delay of the valves are complex to calculate as there is a strong oscillation spectra of multiple frequencies beside the simple stretching of the TC by centrifugal forces. The TFX induction pressure system will show it anyway when the engine runs on the dyno bench 😊. I am again impressed of the design of the RSP head, the 4-angled valve job looks amazing compared to VAG head stuff, beside the port is an universe ahead of any other VAG head.
I shortly did design the valve seat of our 1200 hp engine, were we ordered tools at a famos cutting tool fabricator for our seat cutter or for the CNC machine. From basic design to the final cut tool design I had 4 iterations, just by having requirements of what is there in the valve to cut, what is available as cutting machine (torque demand) and what are the requirements of the tool fabricator. It is far from my optimum, especially because of the compromises not to start with new valve seats. But anyway, the basic design could be kept in some abstract manner. Valve seat design development is a really exciting task, starting at the simulation and get altered up to the way till fabrication and finally you will know it if it was on the engine or at least on the flow bench. I assume the blending will still be a hand job, which is good, as it will have e.g. four different angles at four different locations at the throat.
Regarding the RSP seat design, I've use on the DAMPHAMMER engine, which is totally different to that highly boosted valve seat design (density is much higher, so it has to be different!), I have some new ideas to promote both, low lift and high lift, especially for the back-flow, which is an issue at retarded cam angles at higher engine speeds.
Ordered two spring compressor tools, which will arrive end of this month.
I've measured the head volume of the RSP head with PPA/PRA valves and a NGK BR7EIX spark plug. Gave me 50.5 ccm at 20 °C water temperature. I was surprised about it was that small as Luke from 4Pistons (member @DRAG) stated once their measurements of the K-series heads varies from 51.0-52.5 ccm. Seems the RSP meets the requirement what all piston companies are using: 50.5 ccm per head volume.
BTW, that would mean the CR of the DAMPFHAMMER is at least 12.84:1 cold and at redline in hot conditions about 13.79:1. Dynamic wise it would be with my cams, depending on VTC, from 12.3:1 to 12.5:1 cold...hot I didn't dive deep, the open and closing delay of the valves are complex to calculate as there is a strong oscillation spectra of multiple frequencies beside the simple stretching of the TC by centrifugal forces. The TFX induction pressure system will show it anyway when the engine runs on the dyno bench 😊. I am again impressed of the design of the RSP head, the 4-angled valve job looks amazing compared to VAG head stuff, beside the port is an universe ahead of any other VAG head.
I shortly did design the valve seat of our 1200 hp engine, were we ordered tools at a famos cutting tool fabricator for our seat cutter or for the CNC machine. From basic design to the final cut tool design I had 4 iterations, just by having requirements of what is there in the valve to cut, what is available as cutting machine (torque demand) and what are the requirements of the tool fabricator. It is far from my optimum, especially because of the compromises not to start with new valve seats. But anyway, the basic design could be kept in some abstract manner. Valve seat design development is a really exciting task, starting at the simulation and get altered up to the way till fabrication and finally you will know it if it was on the engine or at least on the flow bench. I assume the blending will still be a hand job, which is good, as it will have e.g. four different angles at four different locations at the throat.
Regarding the RSP seat design, I've use on the DAMPHAMMER engine, which is totally different to that highly boosted valve seat design (density is much higher, so it has to be different!), I have some new ideas to promote both, low lift and high lift, especially for the back-flow, which is an issue at retarded cam angles at higher engine speeds.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Flow bench:
We achieved a big milestone. We've done the first fully logged by ProfiLab flow bench test with an series EA113 head from VW. Looks like the EA113 port isn't that efficient then the Honda K24A1 PPA head 😄.
![104190]()
The PPA head made about 30 % more flow at 10" H2O and 13 mm valve lift. At 30" H2O and 13 mm valve lift the flow of the PPA head was not much higher then at 20" H2O, quite interesting facts. There are some improvements points to be done. We have zero flow with closed bench inlet, which means the bench is fully sealed up to max. under pressure of around 100", then backflow at the vaccumizers fans start to destroy the efficiency of that sucker. Which is not bad for an DIY flow bench system. The cylinder head to head bracket is sealed now and reduced the flow at zero valve lift from 49 to 2-3 cfm without use of any screw clamp, just with the G-force of the head weight. That's also not bad for a DIY flow bench system. It is indeed a very interesting tool for head port investigation. I am really looking forward to learn more about this little mobile sucker. As small it as the loud it is, around 120-130 dB(A) in the engine dyno room, which is fully noise damped. You have the fingers in your ear but still think "...wow still that loud, I need another set of fingers..." 😂. My ears get hot yesterday just from 5 min. of testing. For myself, MickyMouse for your ears next time!
I measured around this the valve seats of the PPA and RSP head and compared it to the EA113 seats. Same for the valves. What an enlightenment. Seeing that one knows why the stock heads of VW suck that much at lower lifts. Sucks not in a sense of sucking 😉. I will investigate seat design approaches. I am looking forward to see what our EA113 CNC head with my valve seat design is able to put down on the flow sensor.
We achieved a big milestone. We've done the first fully logged by ProfiLab flow bench test with an series EA113 head from VW. Looks like the EA113 port isn't that efficient then the Honda K24A1 PPA head 😄.
The PPA head made about 30 % more flow at 10" H2O and 13 mm valve lift. At 30" H2O and 13 mm valve lift the flow of the PPA head was not much higher then at 20" H2O, quite interesting facts. There are some improvements points to be done. We have zero flow with closed bench inlet, which means the bench is fully sealed up to max. under pressure of around 100", then backflow at the vaccumizers fans start to destroy the efficiency of that sucker. Which is not bad for an DIY flow bench system. The cylinder head to head bracket is sealed now and reduced the flow at zero valve lift from 49 to 2-3 cfm without use of any screw clamp, just with the G-force of the head weight. That's also not bad for a DIY flow bench system. It is indeed a very interesting tool for head port investigation. I am really looking forward to learn more about this little mobile sucker. As small it as the loud it is, around 120-130 dB(A) in the engine dyno room, which is fully noise damped. You have the fingers in your ear but still think "...wow still that loud, I need another set of fingers..." 😂. My ears get hot yesterday just from 5 min. of testing. For myself, MickyMouse for your ears next time!
I measured around this the valve seats of the PPA and RSP head and compared it to the EA113 seats. Same for the valves. What an enlightenment. Seeing that one knows why the stock heads of VW suck that much at lower lifts. Sucks not in a sense of sucking 😉. I will investigate seat design approaches. I am looking forward to see what our EA113 CNC head with my valve seat design is able to put down on the flow sensor.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Actually we have plenty of higher prioritised topics to get the engine dyno'd, but yeah, that would be cool stuff 😎. We will always use two drivers not to sacrifice any accuracy in valve lift.
The VW EA113 valve lift control system is finalized and based on a OEM valve spring compression tool. The tool for the K-series head is actually an improvised valve spring compressor from an aftermarket supplier. Low quality, it doesn't align the valve shaft center line and is off by roughly 15°. It was cheap and does it's job, but it began with steal-alu-sliding contact in the thread and the compressor cage top. You need to grease it or you cut it. So there is an improvement possible. Also I need lower spring rates, as the micro screw approach need a lot of hand torque to screw it down to 13 mm and back. So I will order used inner springs from the K20A2 or any other lighter spring for that purpose.
Yesterday I made a Excel based simulation of the valve seat-system, where the valve is moving down and up. It helps to figure out effects in flow dynamic and comparing it with actual conditions from the 1D-engine-simulation. There you can see the pressure-velocity-impulse conditions of the air at certain valve lifts and understand better what is needed and what is not. For that purpose I will mold exhaust and intake port of these heads (PPA, RSP, and the RBB head, which came today). I've ordered 2 kg mold silicon in shore hardness A35 for that purpose to get an exact comparison of those ports to understand why the RSP flows better above around 8 mm then the PPA. While they are almost similar down low is clear, they share a similar valve seat valve head design. Very exciting times, investigating these head ports.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Flow bench:
Yesterday the port mold foam arrived. That means I will prepare the port molding for this Saturday.
BTW, for you guys an example what engineers do if they get bored:
If you look it in repeat mode you can see the desktop jumping, hit hard by the valve 😅.
Yesterday the port mold foam arrived. That means I will prepare the port molding for this Saturday.
BTW, for you guys an example what engineers do if they get bored:
If you look it in repeat mode you can see the desktop jumping, hit hard by the valve 😅.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Flow bench:
We made some port molds. Among that was PPA, EA113 and a BMW bicycle cylinder head port.
![104234]()
A well known body of CRV drivers.
![104235]()
VW 5 valve head intake and BMW race bicicle head, also intake.
![104236]()
I like that design most. Flat valve included angle, huge squish pads, steep port angle and a well shaped port and valve seat.
![104237]()
From an almost 300 hp capable 2000 ccm engine with an huuuuuge valve-throat-ratio. Race specification from DTM/STW racing series from Lehmann. I have to measure the port shape, I am curious about it.
We made some port molds. Among that was PPA, EA113 and a BMW bicycle cylinder head port.
A well known body of CRV drivers
.
VW 5 valve head intake and BMW race bicicle head, also intake.
I like that design most. Flat valve included angle, huge squish pads, steep port angle and a well shaped port and valve seat.
From an almost 300 hp capable 2000 ccm engine with an huuuuuge valve-throat-ratio. Race specification from DTM/STW racing series from Lehmann. I have to measure the port shape, I am curious about it.
Joined
·
7,807 Posts
Thanks mrluke.
These were our first molds with the 2 component silicon. I recognized some improvements regarding filling to prevent air bubbles, release agent use and pulling the mold out of the form, not to hurt it's surface. I will do a chamber mold with the modified chamber to adapt the piston correctly. Maybe until that point I have the scanner method implemented too. Anyway, easy to buy, easy to mold. I believe the scanner technique would be more helpfully on the customizing side like you did it with the shortened bell mouths.
861 - 880 of 891 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!