[chunky`]

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this. I realized that my 2002 EP3 VSS won't work. I could have sworn that I had checked to make sure that the gear on the VSS meshed with the gear on the diff, but when I grab the mainshaft splines and turn the mainshaft with the transmission in gear, you can see the VSS flexing and then you hear a regular "POP" as the gear jumps teeth.

I did some looking on part numbers and I noticed that the 2002-2003 EP3 uses a different part number for the VSS gear. Note that by VSS gear I mean the little gear on the end of the VSS that can be purchases separate from the VSS itself.

VSS part # 78410-S5T-901
gear part # 78415-S5T-901
speedo drive gear # 41312-PE6-310

The 2004-2005 EP3 uses

VSS part # 78410-S6M-N01
gear part # 78415-S7A-G01
speedo drive gear # 41312-PPP-000

The 2004-2005 EP3 shares the same part #s with the 2002-2004 RSX-s. I ordered the VSS gear for the RSX-s since it's only like 2$. Hopefully that will work.

I'm curious to see what kind of speedo error I'll end up with after doing this. My guess is that the speedo will read high since the cars with the bigger overall diameter wheel seem to have a different part number.

 

[kommon_sense]

If you could report back on the number of teeth on the gear, that would be great!

Are the speedo ring gears different? Just wonder if there would be any issues with gear mesh.

 

[chunky`]

If you could report back on the number of teeth on the gear, that would be great!

Are the speedo ring gears different? Just wonder if there would be any issues with gear mesh.

Yeah, the speedo drive gears are different part numbers, so I assume they are different. I suppose I'll have to do a closer inspection when I get the new VSS gear.

The observed pattern thus far is that the 5-lug models, which use a bigger wheel, have a different speedo drive/vss gear than the 4-lug models which use a smaller wheel. It would make sense to alter the speedo gear ratio in that case.

 

[drhonda]

I would also suspect them to be different because of the different final drives. So I would make the assumption that you want the vss gear to correlate with the final drive that you have.

 

[chunky`]

I would also suspect them to be different because of the different final drives. So I would make the assumption that you want the vss gear to correlate with the final drive that you have.

VSS has nothing to do with final drive. Not on the models where the speedo drive gear is on the diff. It turns at wheel speed, so changing the final drive does not alter the accuracy of the speed detected.

 

[drhonda]

VSS has nothing to do with final drive. Not on the models where the speedo drive gear is on the diff. It turns at wheel speed, so changing the final drive does not alter the accuracy of the speed detected.

If you have the same exact setup. Meaning wheels tires trans. One with a 4.4 FD and one with a 4.7. Your telling me that VSS will accurately display the speed of the car?

 

[Drivetofast]

the base and type-s gears are the same but the ep3 is not, the resion is the size of the overal diamiter of the tires. i have looked at both and there is a different number of teeth so ya they are not the same

 

[cxcivic]

SI speedo ring(on diff)has 23 teeth
its vss has 19
so 23/19 =1.21
Type-s speedo ring(on diff) has 26 teeth
its vss has 20.
so 26/20=1.3

I put the si combo in my crx, now the mph is really close with my 215/60/14 BFGs on the front. -Neal

 

[chunky`]

If you have the same exact setup. Meaning wheels tires trans. One with a 4.4 FD and one with a 4.7. Your telling me that VSS will accurately display the speed of the car?

Yep, as long as the speed pickup is on the diff, any changes in gearing will be accounted for. The 2005+ type-s has a countershaft mounted speed pickup, so changing the final drive will throw off the speedo.

the base and type-s gears are the same but the ep3 is not, the resion is the size of the overal diamiter of the tires. i have looked at both and there is a different number of teeth so ya they are not the same

That's what I've been guessing.

SI speedo ring(on diff)has 23 teeth
its vss has 19
so 23/19 =1.21
Type-s speedo ring(on diff) has 26 teeth
its vss has 20.
so 26/20=1.3

I put the si combo in my crx, now the mph is really close with my 215/60/14 BFGs on the front. -Neal

Ahh, I knew there would be someone that had done the research on this. Looks like that's my issue. So now the question is, do I want to bother taking apart the transmission I just put together just to swap out the speedo drive gear. The current speedo setup will cause increased error in my speedo and odometer, but if I up the tire size to something like 225/50/16 from my current 225/50/15, I'll be fine.

decisions decisions.

 

[drhonda]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

The VSS whether it is located on the diff or the counter shaft, reads rpm. It then sends a signal to the cluster of your speed. If your FD is 4.4 or 4.7 it will result in different rpms sending to your cluster. It may send the same speed, but your actual speed will be off.

If i'm wrong explain to me how a 4.4 and a 4.7 FD will yield accurate speeds shown on the cluster vs actual speed.

 

[chunky`]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

The VSS whether it is located on the diff or the counter shaft, reads rpm. It then sends a signal to the cluster of your speed. If your FD is 4.4 or 4.7 it will result in different rpms sending to your cluster. It may send the same speed, but your actual speed will be off.

If i'm wrong explain to me how a 4.4 and a 4.7 FD will yield accurate speeds shown on the cluster vs actual speed.

That statement is not entirely correct. For a fixed engine RPM, the output RPM through a 4.4 or 4.7 final drive will be different. However, engine rpm doesn't determine vehicle speed, wheel rpm does. Regardless of FD, the number of turns of the WHEEL for a particular speed will be the same. Since having the speed pickup on the diff gives you the WHEEL rpm, your speed will be correct regardless of final drive.

Just take a moment to think it through and you'll get it.

 

[kommon_sense]

So, now the question is. Do you tear apart the tranny or just install a yellow-box. I've had a yellow box speedo recalibrator sitting on a table for like 8 months now... It was 16deg here this past weekend, but I plan to have it installed very soon.... I'm tired of doing the math in my head...

 

[chunky`]

Interesting observation.

The car is running now with the speed drive gear (on diff) and pickup gear (on speed sensor) for the 5-lug wheel/tire, which are about an inch larger in diameter than the 4-lug wheel/tire. However, the speedo is still 100% accurate. According to the datalogs, 3690 = 80mph which is spot on with the math.

 

[drhonda]

Do you have access to a GPS to compare speeds?

 

[chunky`]

Do you have access to a GPS to compare speeds?

Yeah. I have a garmin Nuvi 650.

I do know that before, the speedo was also spot on with the theoretical numbers at cruise. I think wheel slip only becomes a major issue at very high speeds when things become traction limited.

 

[drhonda]

I'm curious if there is a speed difference.

Possible to check and compare?

 

[chunky`]

I'm curious if there is a speed difference.

Possible to check and compare?

Yeah, I've done this myself to check. There's usually a little error, not huge as honda speedos are reasonably accurate at sane speeds. The more important thing for me to verify was not the absolute accuracy of the sensor, but to see if there was any error introduced as a result of swapping the speedo drive/pickup gear. To my surprise, even though I changed the drive ratio of the speedo gear, the speedo is still accurate on my stock gauge and in Hondata.

The only compensation I made is that I entered in the correct gear ratios into my calibration, but that still doesn't account for the fact that the tires I'm running are about an inch smaller in rolling diameter than the tires that the speedo drive/pickup gears I swapped to were designed for.

 

[BlackEgk20a]

SI speedo ring(on diff)has 23 teeth
its vss has 19
so 23/19 =1.21
Type-s speedo ring(on diff) has 26 teeth
its vss has 20.
so 26/20=1.3

I put the si combo in my crx, now the mph is really close with my 215/60/14 BFGs on the front. -Neal

sorry to say that
but did you make a mistake counting ?
just want to confirm cause for me its all the good numbers EXCEPT the type-s vss has 21 teeth.... not 20
maybe you miscalculated...

i have a si that is correct with 23 / 19
and a type-s and base rsx that is exactly the same vss with the same gear with the same part number at acura and when i count its 21 teeth on the vss... and 26 on the ring
lmk if you can count back or i dont know ... just to correct this if its wrong so it wont mislead people

and also the 19 teeth vss gear on the civic SI is only on the 02-03 models
the 04-05 models is the exact same vss gear as the rsx-s or base rsx... 21 teeth
lmk

 

[Bense]

Do I need to remove the diff bearing to install a new speedo gear?

 

[malkolm666]

You never got the CR-V with manuell transmission in US, right?

Because there is (at least) 3different sensors and 3 different ring gears.

Acura RSX 16’wheels (205/55-16’)
24.9” tire dia
(4.38 fd)
1.24 in VSS-ratio
26teeths on the ring gear. (Marked with white dot and 1line)
21teeths on the small gear on the sensor. Non-coloured plastic (usually gets lightly green-yellow from the oil)

Civic EP3r Type R 17’wheels (205/45-17’)
24.3” tire dia
(4.76 fd)
1.21 in VSS-ratio
23teeths on the ring gear. (no marks)
19teeths on the small gear on the sensor. Yellow sensor-gear.

CR-V 15”wheels (205/70-15”)
26.3” tire dia
(5.06 fd)
1.32 in VSS-ratio
29teeths on the ring gear (blue dot and 2 lines)
22teeths on the small gear on the sensor. Blue sensor-gear.



The CRV has the biggest tires and the highest VSS-ratio 1.30. It is possible to combine the RSX ring gear with the CRV-sensor, then you get 1.18 in ratio that will better suite cars with smaller tires (like a swapped car with 205/50-15”). Its will read 2.5-3% lower/slower than the yellow EDM EP3r setup and 5% lower than the RSX setup. I have tried this in my hand and also fitted in a gearbox on my workbench in the garage, when I spin the diff it rotates nice and smooth.
(I also tried the yellow ep3r-sensor with both the RSX & CRV ring gears but that did fit, jumped over tooths and forced/pushed the sensor away from the ring gear).
I have been reading that people in US that have bought JDM DC5r gearboxes and installed the RSX-sensor in it got problem with the speedo showing 10mph less. So I assume that setup works but the ratio gets pretty low. Maybe suits Mini Cooper and other small cars with 12-13” wheels. This will get the ratio down to 1.10.


-EP3r-sensor seems to only work with the EP3r ring gear. (I have tested on my bench)
-CRV-sensor seems to work with both CRV & RSX-ring gears. (I have tested this on my bench)
-RSX-sensor seems to work with both RSX & EP3-ring gears.



.