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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)




Hey guys, just thought I would post up an update of my friend Hung's eg that we’ve been working on at the shop for the last six months. We had the car tuned with the K2’s at Churchs before, but we recently put in a set of skunk2 stage 1’s with an exhaust cam gear retarded 5 marks . Pretty impressive, heres is the results,Top graph is skunk2 stage1 and bottom graph is ips k2. We will be doing the stage2 test soon :up:



Motor setup
k20a2
unport head only valve job ( soon to be change)
prc manifold with stock TB ( soon will be change)
ips valve springs and retainers
ips k2 cam
ips 12.5 87.5 mm pistons
pauter rods
jdm crv 5.02 fd with quaife lsd
Exedy stage 2 with lighweight flywheel
DSS level two axles
k pro
550cc injectors
bdl fuel rail
r crew header (soon to be change)
3" exhaust
 

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just got mention from someone at skunk2 that the "top" graph is actually the green.

Top/bottom was kind of ambiguious since the graphs flip flopped positions near redline. So I assumed since the yellow is on top of the green in the legend below the plot that yellow = skunk2. However the GREEN = Skunk2 and the YELLOW = IPS.
 

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Skunk2 always sets the bar high for the cam market. Its tough to compete with the performance aspect alone, then you factor in cost, availability their customer service, etc. You really cant go wrong with Skunk2 these days.

:up: to another SD native making decent power. I miss SD :(
 

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Rick Solis said:
Skunk2 always sets the bar high for the cam market. Its tough to compete with the performance aspect alone, then you factor in cost, availability their customer service, etc. You really cant go wrong with Skunk2 these days.
Very well said for a diplomat, Rick.. well done! However... that is a pretty bold statement.. "You really cant go wrong with Skunk2 these days."

They have been a handful of k20a.org users that got bad cams from skunk2. Some didn't fit, some almost broke and some detiorated. Skunk2 was nice enough to replace the defective cams and compensate for the owner's troubles and that is appreciated.. However, when they realised that they had a bad batch, instead of trying to located these cams and exchange them for new ones, they just sat back and sold more and dealt with the problems as they came...

You refer to performance ,cost, availability and customer service. What ever happened to quality?

Notice to haters.. I didn't even take the time to mention that the test presented in here is not valid since the IPSk2 cams did not receive an exhaust retard. It is well known that exhaust cam gear tuning is beneficial to the midrange. Therefore, I am not sure how we can use these data.

here's a IPS K2 dyno on the same dyno, stock block.... k20a R

on churche's 4000 dynopack. the same one used on this test



this is PRC vs RBC on stock k20a R block 11.5:1 compression...

Something seems off with this motor... With 12.5:1 he should be making more power= even with the PRC

As you see on the same dyno, a k20r is making more power than a 12.5:1 motor with one whole point more compression?

Thanks for sharing though, I just I am not sure why the IPS k2 was not retarded..

In most dynos, we do need base line runs to express opinions.. but on churches, there have been so many cars dynoed there , that we have a good idea what to expect.. Even the blueprint cams on the same dyno made more power on stock block.. Maybe you should do a compression test? Or use different cams.. get a RBC for sure.
 

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I knew something was off.. I was able to pinpoint..it...

I am not sure why you used photoshop on this dyno...

A few weeks ago, you posted about your friends red EG, that IPS k2 dyno... same curves as the one you are showing us.



As you all can see that was on churches 2000 dynapack... (not the 4000 that you claim)

Then you dynoed the skunk2 cams on the same dyno the 2000... because you cannot overlay data from the 2000 to the 4000... that is a fact...

and then you photochop the final overlay stating it is the 4000 that was used... I am not sure what you were thinking.... but it is clear that you copy and pasted the header...

You can see the detail on what was pasted here...

http://www.k20a.org/upload/photoshopped-dynapack-chart.jpg

I don;t get it.. Why would you want to misrepresent what dyno was used? We do know that the 4000 reads a little bit lower but I still am not sure why you did it.. Maybe by accident? Not sure.. But I would love if someone could get on here and explain to me how the IPS k2 done on the dynapack 2000, found its way to another dyno chart... the 4000.. that was not used on this test.. Unlike dynojet, you cannout use data from one dynapack to another series dynapack....

Wow, I cannot believe I wasted my time investigating this.... I am going to demand an answer on this one.. Why did you guys post a fake dyno?
 

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the tea-father[/IMG said:
pauter rods
Just out of curiosity, why Pauter rods? Pauter makes an excelent rod (one of the best for big HP FI), but unless its their titanium rod its going to be a lot on the heavy side. Plans to go FI later on maybe?
 

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I knew this would be coming...

We have, (and still are) in the process of contacting distributors and customers to verify which batch of cams they recieved and help them out. It can be hard to track down every cam with a distribution network like ours, so for the record, if anyone has any problem with any of their cams, feel free to contact me personally and I will be more than happy to resolve the issue myself.

In regards to the K2's not receiving fair treatment by not having the exhaust cam retarded; well, they wont make any more power with an exhaust gear. Nikos, do you know what the exhaust centerline is on a set of K2s when installed? If you dont, go degree a set, or even better, go install an exhaust gear and dyno it.

To be clear, im not trying to bash or anything, just want to make sure you're aware of why the k2's wont make any more power with an exhaust cam gear retarded. The centerline is already at 104.

And yes, this motor defintiely needs an RBC manifold and bigger throttle body.

...and now back to your regular programming.
 

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nikos said:
I knew something was off.. I was able to pinpoint..it...

I am not sure why you used photoshop on this dyno...

A few weeks ago, you posted about your friends red EG, that IPS k2 dyno... same curves as the one you are showing us.



As you all can see that was on churches 2000 dynapack... (not the 4000 that you claim)

Then you dynoed the skunk2 cams on the same dyno the 2000... because you cannot overlay data from the 2000 to the 4000... that is a fact...

and then you photochop the final overlay stating it is the 4000 that was used... I am not sure what you were thinking.... but it is clear that you copy and pasted the header...

You can see the detail on what was pasted here...

http://www.k20a.org/upload/photoshopped-dynapack-chart.jpg

I don;t get it.. Why would you want to misrepresent what dyno was used? We do know that the 4000 reads a little bit lower but I still am not sure why you did it.. Maybe by accident? Not sure.. But I would love if someone could get on here and explain to me how the IPS k2 done on the dynapack 2000, found its way to another dyno chart... the 4000.. that was not used on this test.. Unlike dynojet, you cannout use data from one dynapack to another series dynapack....

Wow, I cannot believe I wasted my time investigating this.... I am going to demand an answer on this one.. Why did you guys post a fake dyno?
To my knowledge, there was not photchopping done here. I understand what you are saying, but I can mail you the dyno sheet if you wish. It was printed by Churchs that way. The only thing added or modified were the footnotes.
 

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lol owned i wanna know aswell why post a fake dyno?
 

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Skunk2TS said:
To be clear, im not trying to bash or anything, just want to make sure you're aware of why the k2's wont make any more power with an exhaust cam gear retarded. The centerline is already at 104.
Tony, I am aware of the centerline of the K2. Instead of forcing customers to buy the exhaust gear, IPS integrated the retard in the grind. I know that.. I am not sure why Skunk2 didn't do that. I mean I know why... it is a rhetorical question... to sell more parts

The K2 could make more power with an adjustable gear with the right header. I am sure you know this. A incorrect header can't take advantage of a retarded K2.
So then if you want to fine tune for that setup PRC/rcrew header you'll have to explore .5 to 1 degree at a time all the while maintaining lobe separation relative to the intake cam angles so if you advance 1 degree on the cam exhaust then add 1 degree to all the cam angles on the intake and bracket from there tuning it correctly is very tedious and then once you've gone through all of that you can bracket the intake vtc after finding out where the exhaust cam really wants to be for a given setup.

The simple fact that they/you didn't do so for this combination
If you really want to go head's up then go head's up keep all the variables controlled. We can set it up again. IPSk2 8620 K2 with skunk2 stage 1. If you really think the the stage 1 cams is capable of making more power than the K2.. oh well... good luck.. I think SKunk2 needs a new line with better midrange against the IPS.. my opinion

From the bottom of my heart, I do appreciate you being respectful. I am 100% certain we can co exist on this website.
 

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Has the tea-father guy been banned yet for posting a Skunk graph that made a better run than the IPS? Weel, he should, it's not allowed.
 

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nobody is out to get IPS, they just set the benchmark so others compare there product to what was/is the benchmark.

Everything doesn't have a hidden agenda
 

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nikos said:
I knew something was off.. I was able to pinpoint..it...

I am not sure why you used photoshop on this dyno...

A few weeks ago, you posted about your friends red EG, that IPS k2 dyno... same curves as the one you are showing us.



As you all can see that was on churches 2000 dynapack... (not the 4000 that you claim)

Then you dynoed the skunk2 cams on the same dyno the 2000... because you cannot overlay data from the 2000 to the 4000... that is a fact...

and then you photochop the final overlay stating it is the 4000 that was used... I am not sure what you were thinking.... but it is clear that you copy and pasted the header...

You can see the detail on what was pasted here...

http://www.k20a.org/upload/photoshopped-dynapack-chart.jpg

I don;t get it.. Why would you want to misrepresent what dyno was used? We do know that the 4000 reads a little bit lower but I still am not sure why you did it.. Maybe by accident? Not sure.. But I would love if someone could get on here and explain to me how the IPS k2 done on the dynapack 2000, found its way to another dyno chart... the 4000.. that was not used on this test.. Unlike dynojet, you cannout use data from one dynapack to another series dynapack....

Wow, I cannot believe I wasted my time investigating this.... I am going to demand an answer on this one.. Why did you guys post a fake dyno?
jeez take it easy baby cups..
did your eyes water up while writing this?
we all are IPS fans because what has been done, but your like that crazy groupie that will burn someones house down..
 
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