[Dekado]

Hi guys, need your advice here.

Finally get my car to dyno after almost 3 months of work..

First, here is setup parts.

K24Z3 body with K24A3 head
2.6 BrianCrower stroker kit with CP pistons, compression ratio 12.5 and a bore size 87.5
179B Kelford camshafts
ferrea +1 flat valves
skunk2 dual valve springs with tit. retainers
skunk2 intake + throtle body + K&N short ram
VTC 50"
TODA replica exhaust, custom weld with Tanabe cutback
550 DeatschWerks injectors and 265 LPH fuel pump
skunk2 fuel rail
hondata flashpro tuned.

Everything that can be ported and polished is done.

251 whp.

We have only two suspects
1. exhaust header, cause it's replica, we will check it tomorrow..
or
2. kelford cams - I've heard some completely different opinions about those here on k20a.org


what you guys think about it?

 

[signalpuke]

Re: unexpectedly low whp output from a pricy setup..

Got any sheets of other cars from that dyno?
What chassis?

 

[chameleon]

Re: unexpectedly low whp output from a pricy setup..

seems the dyno is in shootout mode, thats a correction of 1.0 instead of the usual dyno dynamics correction of 1.150 so means that its in a set mode to show the dyno has not been compromised to tweak numbers. unfortunately in this mode its almost mustang dyno numbers. so on a dynojet you will see another 20hp or so.

although... you have a k24A3 head .. just by the graph alone you arent revving high and doesnt seem the power is flowing up there either.. cams are good for 300whp and replica headers are good for 300whp as well so dont think those are your limiting factors.. even a stock RBC is good for near 300whp. exhausts can restrict if they are not 3" mandrel all the way back with a straight through muffler, so drop the entire exhaust and do open header!

also fuel and timing tuning is not sufficient, make sure VTC was tuned as well.

 

[iBUILT]

Those cams will make 300hp+ no problem, Who's tuning it?

 

[k20jonny]

Re: unexpectedly low whp output from a pricy setup..

seems the dyno is in shootout mode, thats a correction of 1.0 instead of the usual dyno dynamics correction of 1.150 so means that its in a set mode to show the dyno has not been compromised to tweak numbers. unfortunately in this mode its almost mustang dyno numbers. so on a dynojet you will see another 20hp or so.

although... you have a k24A3 head .. just by the graph alone you arent revving high and doesnt seem the power is flowing up there either.. cams are good for 300whp and replica headers are good for 300whp as well so dont think those are your limiting factors.. even a stock RBC is good for near 300whp. exhausts can restrict if they are not 3" mandrel all the way back with a straight through muffler, so drop the entire exhaust and do open header!

also fuel and timing tuning is not sufficient, make sure VTC was tuned as well.

Would a 2.5" exhaust with a botttle neck resonator and chambered muffler be considered restrictive? How much hp loss would a restrictive muffler cause?

 

[Dekado]

signalpuke
Chassis is european Honda Accord 2009+ (US Acura TSX)
right after my car we measured VW golf 6 R - Dyno showed 269.7, official specs are 270.
so dyno is measuring correctly.

chameleon
tanabe exhaust made of 50mm (2") pipes with 100mm (~4") dual tips. and we've removed catalytic converter and resonator definitely.
as for hi revs - I thought it's usual behavior for a bigger engines - 2.6L now with that stroker kit.
I'll try to contact BC to confirm that, anyway..

 

[chameleon]

Would a 2.5" exhaust with a botttle neck resonator and chambered muffler be considered restrictive? How much hp loss would a restrictive muffler cause?

anything thats not 3" straight thru is a restriction, 10+ hp

chameleon
tanabe exhaust made of 50mm (2") pipes with 100mm (~4") dual tips. and we've removed catalytic converter and resonator definitely.
as for hi revs - I thought it's usual behavior for a bigger engines - 2.6L now with that stroker kit.
I'll try to contact BC to confirm that, anyway..

thats a huge restriction, you need at least 3" with a straight 3" muffler if you want full power out of your setup, i see at least 15hp if you drop the entire exhaust system. what determines how high you rev is how good your rods are and how well your head package flows. in the world of 2.4+ kseries stock rods wont handle more than 7800. once you have rods you can safely rev to 8600. anything above that is racecar status power can be made to 9500+ just depends what you are using the car for and if it can handle the abuse.

 

[Dekado]

chameleon
Rods came from the same BC kit. It's BC6059 lightweight rods.

Can that exhaust be a reason why engine drops power after 7200 with my setup?

 

[signalpuke]

The exhaust is holding you back. The next restriction might be the header for that chassis, I don't remember how it looks, but most rep headers are too small for a motor that big.

 

[Vaikis_]

send me 3rd gear FlashPro datalog from 2000 rpm till -redline rpm and I will give you some comparison in Virtual dyno.

Tuned by Mura in Russia ?

 

[Dekado]

Ok, we'll check exchaust.
as we already going to check header, we'll try to dyno it with a header installed only.

Vaikis_ flashpro tuned by Mura, engine and all other things built by Gosha. (GTT)
I will collect those logs tomorrow. please pm me your mail.

 

[Vaikis_]

Ok, we'll check exchaust.
as we already going to check header, we'll try to dyno it with a header installed only.

Vaikis_ flashpro tuned by Mura, engine and all other things built by Gosha. (GTT)
I will collect those logs tomorrow. please pm me your mail.

your exhaust will be a restriction with such setup
shared my email with you

 

[onefstek]

What did you adjust your valve lash to?

Stefan

 

[6spd_EK]

Your exhaust is holding you back as is the cylinder head. I believe k24a2/3 heads are a bottle neck. My friend picked up 25whp by switching from RBB head to RSP. Search for RBB vs RSP thread

Who ported the head?

Who modified the k24z3 block? What oil pump? What headgasket? Do the oil passages line up at the a3 head? Pretty sure they dont. Was the oil filter relocated? Stock is located at the bottom of the block on the k24z3/7.

Is vtec actually working? From the graph it doesn't look it.

Pretty sure the newer blocks are like the older and need a oil feed (used to feed balance shafts) plugged, if you run a non balance shaft oil pump assembly.

K24z3/7 blocks are a pain in the ass to make into a frankenstein motor. I know only of a few professionals who have been successful doing this. John @ HyTech and HPD

 

[Vaikis_]

Your exhaust is holding you back as is the cylinder head. I believe k24a2/3 heads are a bottle neck. My friend picked up 25whp by switching from RBB head to RSP. Search for RBB vs RSP thread

Who ported the head?

Who modified the k24z3 block? What oil pump? What headgasket? Do the oil passages line up at the a3 head? Pretty sure they dont. Was the oil filter relocated? Stock is located at the bottom of the block on the k24z3/7.

Is vtec actually working? From the graph it doesn't look it.

Pretty sure the newer blocks are like the older and need a oil feed (used to feed balance shafts) plugged, if you run a non balance shaft oil pump assembly.

K24z3/7 blocks are a pain in the ass to make into a frankenstein motor. I know only of a few professionals who have been successful doing this. John @ HyTech and HPD

no need for oil filter relocation his engine is in Accord CU2 chassis aka Acura TSX 09+
Guy who did his engine has done a lot of setups with K24z3 blocks and K20 + K24 ported heads. I doubt that they could do something wrong with engine assembly. Of cource I don't know how his head porting is good or bad.
From logs I can see that VTEC works, but AFR is too lean 15 - 18 in VTEC when should be ~ 12.8 - 13.2


Dekado your tune is not nice believe me.....

 

[Nyborg Garage]

So the valve is not replaced for a +1mm valve?

It is just that the stock valve is +1mm from the normal heads?

If so, do you know if it actually is ported?

Honda used the same 35mm valveseats on the 36mm valve heads.

btw, if it is as low reading as a newer Mustang dyno everything over 100whp pr liter (so 240whp) is pretty ok, but I doubt it is.

It if is a 2" exhaust it is defiantly the restriction at the moment.

Sounds like a nice car!

 

[Dekado]

Nyborg Garage
valve were replaced to ferrea +1 valves.

6spd_EK
I'll pass your questions to engine builder )

Vaikis_
we've setup AFR according dyno measurements, and on a last run it was pretty good - 12.5 - 13. have no idea why its different now on a flashpro..

I've got some old pictures of head before installation. I was told, that it's one of the best works on this class of heads )

 

[Nyborg Garage]

Looks good

 

[Vaikis_]

Looks good

pictures looks nice, but who knows how it flows as in Russia I don't know who has PortFlow to test. Question what angles has valve seat as it's critical part in head porting.

Anyway low power is due bad tune also.... any proper tuner will confirm this.

 

[6spd_EK]

pictures looks nice, but who knows how it flows as in Russia I don't know who has PortFlow to test. Question what angles has valve seat as it's critical part in head porting.

Anyway low power is due bad tune also.... any proper tuner will confirm this.

I will say this again... from looking at the graph it does not appear vtec is working / staying engaged.

Vaikis any links to other working k24z3 hybrids built by this shop? what oil pumps did they use? FYI k24z1 blocks have older style oil passages IIRC