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I am researching and getting ready to do a TSX swap in my EK. I have some questions though on things that I may have to change or modify to get it to work. as far as I know this swap has not been done yet, so this thread may act as a basic guide line for anybody wanting to do the swap. At least that is the plan.

The TSX block and head are very similar to the RSX-S in the fact that they will use the same mounts, and the head is the same style.

a couple of problems that I see are...

1. The wiring harness. The TSX wiring harness connects at the firewall correct? it is different than all the other K24 or K series wiring harness from what I know.

Solution= using a full RSX wiring harness and some sort of aftermarket ECU (Hondata or hopefully AEM EMS). any problems here?

2. Throtle Body. the TSX motor is equiped with a throttle by wire, or something along these lines. From what i understand all the B series and other K series motors do not use this style throttle body correct?

Solution= using an RSX throttle body, or possibly removing the entire Intake manifold and replacing it with an RSX piece or an aftermarket ITB setup?

I also was told that the TSX head is givin some sort of EGR head porting or something? not to sure about this one or what effects it has on the swap.

These are my first general problems and I would like to start by getting these taken care of.

I am still learning about these swaps but I feel this is the best way to go and I want to figure everything out befor I start. I also want to get all the parts befor I start that way I can avoid as much down time as possible.

from what I gathered there are enough small differences between the TSX and RSX-S motors that you will not be able to run the TSX ECU with the swap, and I imagine that the TSX motor would not run very well on the stock RSX-S ECU. So this is where I am starting, hopefully some of you guys can help make this thread a good source of information for anyone wanting to do this swap.

Brian G - Go ahead and chime in when ever you can :lol:
 

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There is alot of info currently in the new issue of Hondatuning. Something to watch for is the fact that the EGR is built right into the head of all 24's except for the CR-V.
An interesting idea is to destroke it using an s2200 crank, I don't think anyone has done this yet.
 

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jon v said:
I am researching and getting ready to do a TSX swap in my EK. I have some questions though on things that I may have to change or modify to get it to work. as far as I know this swap has not been done yet, so this thread may act as a basic guide line for anybody wanting to do the swap. At least that is the plan.

The TSX block and head are very similar to the RSX-S in the fact that they will use the same mounts, and the head is the same style.

a couple of problems that I see are...

1. The wiring harness. The TSX wiring harness connects at the firewall correct? it is different than all the other K24 or K series wiring harness from what I know.

Solution= using a full RSX wiring harness and some sort of aftermarket ECU (Hondata or hopefully AEM EMS). any problems here?

2. Throtle Body. the TSX motor is equiped with a throttle by wire, or something along these lines. From what i understand all the B series and other K series motors do not use this style throttle body correct?

Solution= using an RSX throttle body, or possibly removing the entire Intake manifold and replacing it with an RSX piece or an aftermarket ITB setup?

I also was told that the TSX head is givin some sort of EGR head porting or something? not to sure about this one or what effects it has on the swap.

These are my first general problems and I would like to start by getting these taken care of.

I am still learning about these swaps but I feel this is the best way to go and I want to figure everything out befor I start. I also want to get all the parts befor I start that way I can avoid as much down time as possible.

from what I gathered there are enough small differences between the TSX and RSX-S motors that you will not be able to run the TSX ECU with the swap, and I imagine that the TSX motor would not run very well on the stock RSX-S ECU. So this is where I am starting, hopefully some of you guys can help make this thread a good source of information for anyone wanting to do this swap.

Brian G - Go ahead and chime in when ever you can :lol:
[chime]

First off the head looks externally like an Accord head, it has porting built in for EGR although it's not used. The RSX manifold can't be bolted to the head without some modifications to the head. The thermal air assist valve is located in the intake manifold instead of the upper radiator hose fitting. If you use an RSX manifold it uncovers a water port. You could weld it shut though and not use the air assist valve. Then the RSX manifold would bolt on.

1. Use an RSX harness or a Civic Si harness. Save the TSX harness, because you may need some of the plugs off it.

2. The easy solution is to use the Accord t-body, it's smaller but has the same bolt pattern and will fit the TSX manifold. You can also use an Accord Euro R t-body it's much larger. To use the RSX manifold you'll need to perform the modifications listed in my first paragraph.

For right now, a Hondata relashed RSX ECU or a K-Pro is the way to go. The motor differences can be worked around. As for the TSX ECU, Hondata is working on a reflash for it. That means that you may be soon be able to use it for a swap. That also means you could use the throttle-by-wire. It's actaully quite a simple device, it consists of a spring loaded potentiometer that's actuated by the throttle pedal. The ECU takes the input and interprets an output and sends it to the servomotor on the throttlebody. It may look at the traction available though so it might have to be hooked in to the ABS. Or Hondata may figure out a way to get around that.

The one thing you haven't mentioned is the transmission. As of right now, you won't be able to use the TSX (or Accord) transmission. It has different mounting points. We are working on the mounts to use it. I am going to use one in my Inight with my K20A.

[/chime]

brian g
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
anyone care to explain exactly what an EGR is?

So now I know To use one of the more common RSX or Civic SI wiring harness, as long as I get the original TSX harness with the swap.

I know to use a Euro R or Accord throttle body, (which will both work fine with the RSX ECU ?).

,and now you are saying that the transmision mounts would be different. So it sounds like an RSX or Civic Transmission must be mated up to the TSX block befor the swap? So it's just the Accord and TSX tranny's that have the different mounts? and the other (RSX, SI, etc.) are all the same and bolt right up?

So you are going to use the TSX tranny in your drag car? You are going to drop the K20a LSD tranny for the TSX tranny? Mag tranny case? so you guys are confident that this case and tranny can handle big power numbers?

Thanks for the chime

If any body has any questions or commnets feel free to add....

So other than the things listed above is there any other problems or possible switchs and swaps that will need to be done befor I can get my basic TSX swap in my car and running?

Basic TSX swap=

TSX block and head, Euro R T body, RSX-S wiring harness, Hondata Reflashed ECU (RSX), and RSX-Civic tranny of choice, I/H/E puttin down maybe 160-180whp and probly 130-140 in the torque department?
 

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the stock tsx puts down almost 180, so with a kpro, i/h/e you should put down well over 200 with a mild tune. i'm looking at this too now intead of the frankenstein motor. hey brian, what is so different about the mounts on the tsx/accord transmission?
 

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909edge said:
brian g said:
jon v said:
I am going to use one in my Inight with my K20A.
brian g
Oh shit... I can't wait to see this. Mount kits? Cuz I will buy an Insight just so I can buy a Hasport kit and put a k20 in it...
You have made me very excited..I want to see this swap when it is done. I've always liked the Insight.... :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So is that it? Other than the things listed would it be your otherwise standard K swap?

(Tranny, throttle body, and wiring harness?) thats all I really need? :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

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jon v said:
,and now you are saying that the transmision mounts would be different. So it sounds like an RSX or Civic Transmission must be mated up to the TSX block befor the swap? So it's just the Accord and TSX tranny's that have the different mounts? and the other (RSX, SI, etc.) are all the same and bolt right up?

So you are going to use the TSX tranny in your drag car? You are going to drop the K20a LSD tranny for the TSX tranny? Mag tranny case? so you guys are confident that this case and tranny can handle big power numbers?

Thanks for the chime

If any body has any questions or commnets feel free to add....

So other than the things listed above is there any other problems or possible switchs and swaps that will need to be done befor I can get my basic TSX swap in my car and running?

Basic TSX swap=

TSX block and head, Euro R T body, RSX-S wiring harness, Hondata Reflashed ECU (RSX), and RSX-Civic tranny of choice, I/H/E puttin down maybe 160-180whp and probly 130-140 in the torque department?
The Accord and TSX trannies use the same mounts and linkage. Those mounts and linkage are different from the RSX/Si trannies.

My Insight is a land speed car not a drag car, and I will use an Accord or TSX tranny.

I'm sure you'll get nearer to 200 or more HP.

brian g
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
jon v said:
So is that it? Other than the things listed would it be your otherwise standard K swap?

(Tranny, throttle body, and wiring harness?) thats all I really need? :p
The Euro R has the same motor as the DC5 and EP3? It comes with the K20a correct? So does that mean that any RSX throttle body would work on this swap, or just the Euro R or Accord throttel body?
 

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jon v said:
jon v said:
So is that it? Other than the things listed would it be your otherwise standard K swap?

(Tranny, throttle body, and wiring harness?) thats all I really need? :p
The Euro R has the same motor as the DC5 and EP3? It comes with the K20a correct? So does that mean that any RSX throttle body would work on this swap, or just the Euro R or Accord throttel body?
The Accord Euro R has a K20A, but it's not the same motor as the DC5 or EP. The block is very much like the K20A from the DC5, but it has a head similar to the TSX Type S. You need an Accord Euro R t-body or Accord t-body.

brian g
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
brian g said:
The Accord Euro R has a K20A, but it's not the same motor as the DC5 or EP. The block is very much like the K20A from the DC5, but it has a head similar to the TSX Type S. You need an Accord Euro R t-body or Accord t-body.

brian g
So would the Euro R be a good motor to scavange a tranny from ? Do you know anything about which kind of tranny the motor comes with 6spd, close ratio, LSD, which mount it uses? and would this be a good head, that might be a little easier to swap, to use on the TSX block?

Do you have any specs on this motor? The head must be built a little better than the type S head if it can put out like the R, right?
 

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jon v said:
So would the Euro R be a good motor to scavange a tranny from ? Do you know anything about which kind of tranny the motor comes with 6spd, close ratio, LSD, which mount it uses?
No, two things need to happen. Hondata needs to get the ECU to deal with the VSS and we need to make new mounts. The VSS pulses probably 20 times faster than the RSX one. The mounts are very different too.

jon v said:
...and would this be a good head, that might be a little easier to swap, to use on the TSX block?

Do you have any specs on this motor? The head must be built a little better than the type S head if it can put out like the R, right?
It's not built any better than the type R is and actually would be hard use. The intake manifold sticks out way too much and would interfere with the hood. The Type R manifold flows well and fits better.

brian g
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
brian g said:
No, two things need to happen. Hondata needs to get the ECU to deal with the VSS and we need to make new mounts. The VSS pulses probably 20 times faster than the RSX one. The mounts are very different too.

It's not built any better than the type R is and actually would be hard use. The intake manifold sticks out way too much and would interfere with the hood. The Type R manifold flows well and fits better.

brian g
So I would be better off going with DC5 parts? (Tranny, Head, IM)

and also could you elaberate a little on VSS?

Thnaks, Jon
 

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jon v said:
So I would be better off going with DC5 parts? (Tranny, Head, IM)

and also could you elaberate a little on VSS?
Yeah, at this time. Considering the Accord Euro R is essentially a Type R with a different head, IM and tranny it would be easier to get a Type R. It's not like you're getting a 2.4 when you do the Euro R.

The VSS on the 01-04 RSX (05s are different) and related cars is driven directly off the differential. It appears looking at exploded parts drawings on the Accord and TSX trannies that the VSS on these transmissions is similar to the crank or TDC sensor and is driven off the 3rd or 4th gear on the main shaft. These gears always spin the same rpm as the counter shaft which is at a ratio based on the final drive and tire speed. Due to the new configuration the VSS pulses many more times per MPH than the previous design. Simply put, when you're doing 50 mph, the 01-04 RSX ECU thinks you're doing more than 4 times that speed.

brian g
 
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