Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
EDITS Feb 05 2009

Steel Questions:
A. Are you using steel retainers with aftermarket springs?
B. If so, which retainers and which springs?
C. And how many miles have you put on this combo?

I have Eibach EVS springs, IPS 9k Ti retainers, and IPS K2 cams.

I'm looking to replace the Ti retainers since the springs can wear them down over time. I would prefer to keep the EVS springs.

The installed heights and weights of the options that I see so far:
1. Stock Flat retainer: 1.590" ~13 grams
2. Stock Dished retainer: 1.625" 13.7 grams
3. Brian Crower Steel retainer: 1.590" 12 grams
4. SuperTech Steel retainer: 1.590" 11.7 grams

For comparison, the SuperTech Ti retainers weigh 7.8 grams.

The three installed heights IPS tested with the EVS springs and provided Ti retainers for:

Code:
install heights & rpm limits: 
@ 1.575" outer spring installed height - 9500+ 
(race only) 
@ 1.590" outer spring installed height - 9300 
(aggressive street/track) - good life 
@ 1.610" outer spring installed height - 9000 
longevity comparable to OEM combo, with higher rpm potential
The aftermarket steel retainers are a bit lighter than stock, which would gain back some of the rpm potential lost in the switch from Ti to steel.

Ti Questions:
D. If you have Ti retainers, how many miles have you put on them and what brand are they?
E. Have you looked for wear?


I have 20,000 miles on my IPS retainers. I am about to look for wear, but given the nature of the project, I am liable to simply swap them out for steel as it is not exactly convienent to pull your head apart every 20k miles to check for wear.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Weight of Available Steel Retainers?

Does anyone know how much the stock retainers weigh?

EDIT
Dished retainer - 14765-PRB-A01
Flat Retainer - 14765-PRB-A00 - 13 grams (my measurement) 13.7 grams (from several other sources)

The steel Brian Crower Steel retainers weigh 12 grams.

EDIT
SuperTech Steel retainers weigh 11.7 grams.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,531 Posts
Re: Weight of Stock Steel Retainers?

I have used the Ti retainers with the EVS, I had just over 10K miles when the retainers HAD TO BE REPLACED. I went with the dished steel retainers and used them with both the EVS as well as with the OEM combo and have not had issue one with them for just over 100K miles now. The dished steel retainers reduced ghost knock significantly with both spring sets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
where can one order the supertech steel retainers?
i don't know if the oem ones can handle the extra pressure from aftermarket springs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,531 Posts
Just make sure to measure the installed height of the springs after you install the new retainers, this can change the rev limit as well as longeviety.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
where can one order the supertech steel retainers?
i don't know if the oem ones can handle the extra pressure from aftermarket springs?
Where to buy SuperTech?
You can get them directly from SuperTech. Cost looks to be about twice the BC price. Manufacturers who sell direct usually do so at MSRP in order not to undercut their retailers, so one might get a better price from a SuperTech retailer than from SuperTech themselves :confused:
This part is not listed on SuperTech's web site, so e-mail them if you want to buy it direct.
EDIT: ClubRSX will have them listed on their site soon.

Stock Strength?
Has not been an issue, as far as I know. Though perhaps it would be with some crazy stiff springs. The EVS are not crazy stiff.

Installed Height
The SuperTech and BC (and everyone else?) have stayed with the stock installed height of 1.590". This is the stock height when using the stock dual-spring (flat) retainer. The stock dished retainer was originally intended for use with single-springs and results in a 1.625" installed height.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
320 Posts
My supertech titanium retainers looked brand new after 40k miles of use. This is with over 100 lbs of seat pressure. the thing you have to remember is that steel will gall Titanium. So....you need to take a little extra time prepping the springs when installing with Ti retainers...or check/replace as needed.


90% of the time it's user error and not a bad part.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
764 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Inspected and Replaced

Okay, I swapped out my IPS 9k Ti retainers for the SuperTech Steel retainers. Below are some photos.

Used IPS retainers (20,000 miles with K2 cams)







Some wear and galling is evident. However, it is not nearly as deep as the examples we have seen from others. In fact, I would have left these in place for now ... except it is too much work to check them every X-miles.

I have no idea why mine look this good after 20k when some others were deeply grooved by this point. I assume mine would have been good for 20k or 40k more miles ... though the rate of wear may accelerate as the surface roughness increases :dontknow:

Comparison: Stock (Flat) - IPS Ti - SuperTech Steel













Timing Chain Tensioner



Looks good. No obvious wear after 20k with IPS cams and 45k stock.

The Process



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
911/RSX-s thank you for taking the time & sharing.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,000 Posts
back from the dead :)I've always liked the Eibach EVS springs so I did a little more research & came up with a few more options - for retainers that fit well

I notice Crower (not Brian Crower) K-series valve spring specs were very similar to Eibach's. Spring dimensions, seat pressure, open pressure, & coil bind.

I will be sure to update if I get around to checking install heights

Below are a few pics of Port Flow (tight snap fit) vs Ferrea E11003LW (tight snap fit) vs Crower Ti (tight fit) & Crower Steel (tight fit)







crower steel on the eibach
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,072 Posts
Always heard this but never thought it was that serious a situation.

This has me wanting to change my supertech titanium retainers out for some steel retainers. It will be a daily driven motor so I'm tryna take every pre-caution necessary.
 

·
Been There Done That
Joined
·
1,619 Posts
It's not such a big deal. Just open the valve cover and check them every so often.
most of the wear is on the underside where it contacts the spring. not as simple as just removing the valve cover and checking.

i'm running supertech steel retainers for about 10k now because it's daily driven and i wanted the piece of mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
301 Posts
old thread but defintaley good! not to mention I havent seen talon on here in quite a while. he is a Honda guru!
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top