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Murray,
My water/air intercooler core is 7" long, 5.3" wide, and 2.25" thick. I started with a JR manifold, put it on an angle plate in my milling machine and cut the bottom half of it completely off, everything below the lower manifold to head bolt bosses. Then I built a new manifold using the M90 and that I/C core as guidelines. Space above the core, below the core, as well as smooth flow into the ports were also optimized, especially the #1 port which is absolutely horrible on both JR and Comptech manifolds. I machined all of these parts and then welded it all together, so the core itself has zero leakage. 100% of the discharge air HAS to flow through it. I machined the end tanks so the water flows through the I/C core twice, and sealed the bottom plate to water tubes using O-rings. All of this took about 60 hours. It fits with the stock firewall in both the S1 and S2 Elise/Exige, just barely but it fits.
Christ, yea that's a nice setup. You were about | | <-- this close to just making it from scratch.

You have access to WAYYY more resources than I could ever imagine. I know you are primarily into prototype stuff, but there seems to be a decent market for an off-the-shelf higher horsepower positive displacement blower for the K series.

TVS 1320 (or even 1900), with a nice manifold and a cooler to match. Just saying ;)

In the Elise I use the stock up-front oil coolers as my heat exchangers. Derek followed my lead and did the same thing. Its not ideal because they're essentially cheap English oil coolers and rather small, but Lotus was having trouble cooling the 2ZZ motor with just water so they added the oil coolers to help with that problem rather than making a bigger radiator. At some point I'll have Ron Davis make a pair of bigger heat exchangers that are actually made for water rather than oil, but when I was using the M62 S/C K20A setup in the Elise they worked pretty well. Only 325 HP (stock motor with 9 psi), but the air into the engine never got over 106 F and that was on a LONG WFO run out in the desert at 90 F ambient.
Interesting... I still have the infrastructure for the stock oil coolers in the front and could put them in the loop but for now I think I am just going to use a heat exchanger setup developed by BOE which runs in the back. Has some ducting off the scoop and a few nice fans as well... Not ideal, but then again my little drop in IC core in the JR access panel is likely the weakest link anyways.

With your 5.98/3.25 setup you're at 84% overdrive, so just a little higher than the 81% I ran to get 16.5 psi. The E-85 helps in your situation. You just don't have the rpm potential I have because of the 'tractor motor' 99mm stroke. That's one of the biggest reasons I built my "K23". Its 90mm x 90.7mm (2,308cc) and has a 1.75:1 rod/stroke ratio. No matter what it'll always make more power than a K24 even though its 46cc smaller. The only reason Honda used a 99mm stroke in the K24 was to get the displacment over 2,350cc so they could call it a 2.4 liter motor. Pure advertising, not engineering.
I'd imagine Derek has told you how much he dislikes the K24 in his Elise because it can't rev. Eventually he'll get around to building his 'real' motor, which will be 89 x 90.7 and R1900 supercharged. Then he'll be a really happy camper!
Take care and have fun,
Joe
Yea what is interesting is that I don't expect near 16psi. I actually think it will be in the mid/high 13s based on what I saw with my last pulley (3.5"). Not sure what to make about that. I do have more displacement, but your K23 I'm sure outflows my stock K24A2 based on VE (your built head + cams I'm sure outweighs my ~50cc more displacement). I do have an aftermarket M90 which may trade off blower VE for more overall flow at high blower speeds?!

On the topic of engines. I agree the K23 setup you have is basically the ideal engine, and I also dislike the lack of RPM that I have with the K24A2. I started with a built N/A K24 and my header was designed around that. When my engine blew (had terrible luck with people building my engine), I just went with an OEM motor and the K24 made more sense since I didn't have to remake my header.... hence me running a (mostly stock) K24A2. I would trade off torque for more RPM any day of the week, but at the same time I can't complain much. I will be making somewhere in the high 300s at the wheels with a (literally) $1500 engine from a junkyard. I can't honestly say the chassis needs more. The more pressing issues for me would be a transmission that can take the abuse (along with different ratios), and more importantly brakes/aero.

P.S. I am more of an electronics expert like Derek and am not a mechanical guy so much. What exactly is done in the case of the K23? I am assuming it involves taking a K20 (or is it K24) block, overbore + sleeve, AP2 crankshaft, and custom rods/pistons? Is the block or crankshaft modified to make it work? I know the bore spacing is the same however I thought I remember hearing of different bearing sizes between the F and K.
 

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Murray,
Yeah, close to 'from scratch'.
When I first developed the intercooled JR setup, many, many moons ago, the guys at Moss Motors were all excited about putting it into production, so I did all the changes to their casting as a mockup for their pattern maker, and it all ended up being a LOT of work for nothing because the boss said NO. He was more into bringing out a new line of pickup truck products. The whole thing would've only cost them maybe $3,000! The original owner of Moss left the business to his wife because he knew his son was a moron, and it was the son who killed the deal. She got tired of it and gave control of the business to her kid. Starting from scratch with a new I/C friendly manifold casting would cost about $35,000, and that's just money to the pattern maker. I got quotes on this a long time ago and decided I couldn't afford it. Its a shame the way it all worked out...
I'd advise against using Phil's heat exchanger setup, there's nearly zero airflow in that location and a couple of little fans don't so shit as far as airflow goes. It may be easy, but its NOT the right way to do it. You need a good high pressure area like the front of the car, and since the coolers are already there its just a gimmie to use them, AND no extra weight involved. Cut off the stock 1/2" ID English fittings and weld on fittings for 3/4" hose. Firmly attach lengths of 3/4" heater hose to the stock oil cooler hoses and pull them through. It's not always easy because there are foam bulkheads inside the door sills that get bunched up as you're pulling, but on both Derek's and my car only one side got stuck to any degree. Also don't go the Mickey Mouse route with the I/C water supply. Put a header tank in the system so you'll never have any concern with air bubbles.
Yeah, you won't make 16.5 psi at 84% overdrive because your engine can't rev to 9000 like mine. If you keep things safe from a piston speed standpoint and never go above 7,600 you'll be spinning your M90 to 14,000. I spun mine to 16,300 to get 16.5 psi after the I/C. Your setup will be just about like mine with my 12 psi setup, only you'll be making more boost but not pumping as much dense air because it'll be hotter. A boost number by itself is meaningless, you have to know the temperature of the air the engine's actually breathing as well.
From the photos I've seen of the case and bolting arrangement your M90 originally came off a S/C Thunderbird that was new 20+ years ago. I can't be certain because I haven't seen one up close but yours could also have been ported to make it a little more efficient, and certainly rebuilt at the price they're charging for them. I've thought about doing this too because it's a really cheap alternative to a new R1320. I've found lots of those old T-Bird M90's on ebay for under $200. Mine was given to me by Moss Motors, free. Its in a "Scott" case, same one TRD used on their S/C pickup trucks. No integral bypass valve, which if its done wrong (like on the Eaton MP-series) generates a pumping loss at the inlet. That's been cured on all the TVS models I've seen.
Don't feel like the 'Lone Ranger' on bad engine building. At least 90% of the guys screwing K20's together don't have a clue what they're doing, and that includes a LOT of the drag race guys who don't live in the real world. 10 seconds isn't reality as far as I'm concerned. The monkeys from Monkey Wrench Racing found this out at Bonneville when they blew their 1.5L 2ZZ up trying to make sucessive 3 mile runs. The real course is 5 miles!
So keep the piston speed down and your TSX motor will last a long time.
Actually the Elise chassis will handle a LOT of HP. With a proper rollcage its stiff enough to handle 8-900 HP without a whimper.
During the gazillions of hours Derek and I spent on the dyno testing all the K-series headers I've built we found that a supercharged motor simply doesn't care very much what header is bolted onto it. Changing the primaries from 15" to 24" didn't make more than a 2 HP difference anywhere on the curve. So stop worrying about that part, OK?
On the subject of transmissions, what I've done is to build one very much like what we built for Bonneville. TSX 1st-5th with an RSX 6th and a 4.105 final drive with a Quaife LSD. This puts my Elise at 218 MPH at 9,000 in 6th, and only 3,300 at an 80 MPH cruise. With my original JDM Type R gearbox my S/C K20A was spinning 4,100 at 80 MPH. And it still got like 31 MPG. The best I EVER got from the N/A 2ZZ was 26 MPG, making a weenie 180 HP. Damn, that's sad!
The 90.7mm F22C crank needs a little work near the snout to make it drive the K-series cam chain and little work at the ass-end to pilot the input shaft. This isn't stuff you can do yourself, it needs to be done by a real crankshaft guy. Otherwise it fits into any K-series block. You also get the added benefit of wider rod journals and its beefier than any of the other K or F-series cranks. Honda went a little crazy when they made the K20 rods so skinny. I use nothing but custom made rods anyway, so all the engines I build get the wide rod journals, no matter if its a stock crank or a custom built SAE 4340 billet crank. None of this using weenie B-series rod bearings either, that's for morons who don't understand what makes a crankshaft strong.
Take care and have fun,
Joe
 

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Joe McCarthy said:
I'd advise against using Phil's heat exchanger setup, there's nearly zero airflow in that location and a couple of little fans don't so shit as far as airflow goes. It may be easy, but its NOT the right way to do it. You need a good high pressure area like the front of the car, and since the coolers are already there its just a gimmie to use them, AND no extra weight involved. Cut off the stock 1/2" ID English fittings and weld on fittings for 3/4" hose. Firmly attach lengths of 3/4" heater hose to the stock oil cooler hoses and pull them through. It's not always easy because there are foam bulkheads inside the door sills that get bunched up as you're pulling, but on both Derek's and my car only one side got stuck to any degree. Also don't go the Mickey Mouse route with the I/C water supply. Put a header tank in the system so you'll never have any concern with air bubbles.
Yea ultimately I'm not sure how it will work, but they do seem to be somewhat effective and in general Phil does a good job with his products so we will have to see I guess.

Interestingly I actually already have -10AN line going to the coolers up front and refitted the coolers with -10AN fittings instead of whatever BSP was used from the factory. The only reason I really wasn't planning on using them was because I would need to flush them of the oil/contaminents that are in them now, and in the future I am thinking of simply removing them or having something more suitable for water/air exchangers take their place. Any idea on how to properly flush them? It wouldn't take much to put them into the heat exchanger loop. Ultimately though I still have a similar IC core to what Derek has now (albiet a *little* bigger and better since it is Merc Racings next gen core) and I suspect that is where the real issue is.

Header tank is already planned.

Joe McCarthy said:
Yeah, you won't make 16.5 psi at 84% overdrive because your engine can't rev to 9000 like mine. If you keep things safe from a piston speed standpoint and never go above 7,600 you'll be spinning your M90 to 14,000. I spun mine to 16,300 to get 16.5 psi after the I/C. Your setup will be just about like mine with my 12 psi setup, only you'll be making more boost but not pumping as much dense air because it'll be hotter. A boost number by itself is meaningless, you have to know the temperature of the air the engine's actually breathing as well.
Agreed boost in a PD setup is basically a function of engine restriction to flow. Which is why I am surprised still. Sure I didn't spin to 9k, but as you know once the blower is spinning reasonably quickly the boost is pretty flat overall. I know while my boost does increase from say 5000 to 7600 its not by a lot. It increases in part due to engine VE falling and also in part to blower VE increasing slightly.

Again not really worried about what the boost number is as you alluded to its all about air mass, just an interesting thing I noticed between your setup and mine.

And yes my limiter is at 7600.

Joe McCarthy said:
From the photos I've seen of the case and bolting arrangement your M90 originally came off a S/C Thunderbird that was new 20+ years ago. I can't be certain because I haven't seen one up close but yours could also have been ported to make it a little more efficient, and certainly rebuilt at the price they're charging for them. I've thought about doing this too because it's a really cheap alternative to a new R1320. I've found lots of those old T-Bird M90's on ebay for under $200. Mine was given to me by Moss Motors, free. Its in a "Scott" case, same one TRD used on their S/C pickup trucks. No integral bypass valve, which if its done wrong (like on the Eaton MP-series) generates a pumping loss at the inlet. That's been cured on all the TVS models I've seen.
Pretty much. The supercharger originally (i.e. the lobes) came from the early gen 1 or gen 2 M90s. However the case is actually pretty new and efficiency-wise is up there with the newer gen stuff. It's not ported per say but rather an entire new casting. The stuff I know he changed is that it does away with any noise suppression stuff and opens up the inlet a lot to help flow/IATs at high blower speeds. Granted it is a different engine but lightening guys have seen over 500whp (550ish rings a bell) with it, so although it is still a "old" roots blower the ability to move large amounts of air is still there.

Not to say I wouldn't LOVE a TVS :up:

Joe McCarthy said:
Don't feel like the 'Lone Ranger' on bad engine building. At least 90% of the guys screwing K20's together don't have a clue what they're doing, and that includes a LOT of the drag race guys who don't live in the real world. 10 seconds isn't reality as far as I'm concerned. The monkeys from Monkey Wrench Racing found this out at Bonneville when they blew their 1.5L 2ZZ up trying to make sucessive 3 mile runs. The real course is 5 miles!
So keep the piston speed down and your TSX motor will last a long time.
Actually the Elise chassis will handle a LOT of HP. With a proper rollcage its stiff enough to handle 8-900 HP without a whimper.
Makes me feel a little better, just wish I would have went OEM from the get go. Oh well I guess you live and learn.

As for the chassis. I guess to me between the GOBS of extra torque over the 2zz setup, and the existing shortwheel base and no aero, the car seems to want to dance a lot more than before. To really utilize the power well I can tell it would benefit from body aero, and (not that I could do it) a longer wheelbase.

Joe McCarthy said:
During the gazillions of hours Derek and I spent on the dyno testing all the K-series headers I've built we found that a supercharged motor simply doesn't care very much what header is bolted onto it. Changing the primaries from 15" to 24" didn't make more than a 2 HP difference anywhere on the curve. So stop worrying about that part, OK?
That is interesting, I wouldn't have guessed. In terms of the header I was just worried I would run into physical fitment issues with the K20, since the deck height, or lack there of, would basically put my existing header on the rear subframe... maybe I am missing something?

Joe McCarthy said:
On the subject of transmissions, what I've done is to build one very much like what we built for Bonneville. TSX 1st-5th with an RSX 6th and a 4.105 final drive with a Quaife LSD. This puts my Elise at 218 MPH at 9,000 in 6th, and only 3,300 at an 80 MPH cruise. With my original JDM Type R gearbox my S/C K20A was spinning 4,100 at 80 MPH. And it still got like 31 MPG. The best I EVER got from the N/A 2ZZ was 26 MPG, making a weenie 180 HP. Damn, that's sad!
Yea the TSX rations actually look really good even with the 4.3 FD... although I wouldn't mind an even smaller FD.

I guess my bigger worry is about tracking the car with all the torque. I know these transmissions don't like to keep 4th together being tracked with even moderate amounts of torque let alone what an M90 K24 is capable of. Any ideas? I honestly don't plan on ever increasing torque much over what it is now (if anything more RPM as we have been talking about). So the things that interest me the most are the syncronized, helical sets. Namely the WPC coated set from gear-x.

Joe McCarthy said:
The 90.7mm F22C crank needs a little work near the snout to make it drive the K-series cam chain and little work at the ass-end to pilot the input shaft. This isn't stuff you can do yourself, it needs to be done by a real crankshaft guy. Otherwise it fits into any K-series block. You also get the added benefit of wider rod journals and its beefier than any of the other K or F-series cranks. Honda went a little crazy when they made the K20 rods so skinny. I use nothing but custom made rods anyway, so all the engines I build get the wide rod journals, no matter if its a stock crank or a custom built SAE 4340 billet crank. None of this using weenie B-series rod bearings either, that's for morons who don't understand what makes a crankshaft strong.
Take care and have fun,
Joe
Huh, that is pretty darn cool. Yea the K23 sounds like a fantastic engine overall, love the bore/stroke and rod/stroke ratios. And given it is done with an OEM crank and block makes it that much more appealing.

Speaking of that engine. It's in your Elise right? Do you compete at all with that car, or is it just a fun car for you? Just thinking of that car makes me remember the YouTube vid of it on.... forgot the name of the Japanese show... being tracked. That was part of my inspiration in building mine!
 

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Murray,
I agree with you about Phil doing a good job, he tends to think outside the lines rather than following what everyone else is doing. Except in the case of the heat exchanger. Ask him what he'd do if it being a bolt-on wasn't a consideration and see what he says. That makes a big difference when you're designing something as a user installed kit. Even Lotus went to front-mounted water/air heat exchangers on their GT3 cars once they realized they'd made a mistake mounting an air to air setup in the hot-ass engine bay.
The best way to cool the oil is with a Laminova. They don't work very well as an intercooler, but they're the best thing going for cooling oil.
Flushing the oil out of the coolers is really pretty easy, start by gravity draining as much as will come out, then use odorless mineral spirits (paint thinner) twice, then full strength Simple Green, and then water. Blow it out with compressed air at each step. If you wanted to get really slick you could pump each solvent through them using the Bosch intercooler pump, but be careful because that thing REALLY pumps.
Making the heat exchangers efficient is all about the volume of water you can flow through them, so no part of the entire system should be smaller than the I.D. of the pump's discharge port, and ideally a little bigger since the lines are so damn long. Its just unpressurized warm water in this case, so there's no need to use AN hose. AN hose is heavy too! Measure the I.D. of a -10 AN fitting, its a LOT smaller than you'd expect considering each 'dash number' is supposed to represent 1/16". On long-run systems I always use at least -12 AN if the system in question calls for it.
The boost curve is NOT flat, that's a pretty common misconception. It rises gradually all the way to the redline. On my 16.5 psi chart its at 10 psi at 3,250 rpm, 12 psi at 4,500 rpm, 14 psi at 6,200 rpm, and 16 psi at 8,400 rpm.
1st gen. Eaton blowers had straight extruded rotors, so its gotta be later than that. If I remember correctly the S/C T-bird used a 2nd or 3rd gen. rotor group. Your case is identical to the T-bird M90, so I think the only new casting you got is the throttle body adapter. Look at the quality of the castings, they were obviously made by different people.
The car dancing around is a function of the increased torque input, but its also due to the rubber suspension bushings and the absolutely horrible bump-steer Lotus puts into the front end geometry. That's the reason your steering wheel is dancing around like it does! I've already fixed both of those things in my car. Derek's car has the bump-steer fix, but is still using stock A-arm bushings.
With my K-series conversion kit there's the option of either K20 or K24 as far as the engine mounts and exhaust system goes, but one guy in Minnesota told me he was going to use a K20 and then after the header had already been built changed his mind to a K24. Fortunately I designed the header to sit low enough in the space that raising it up didn't cause any problem, and I use V-bands rather than bolted flanges so the 3" muffler still lived where it belonged. That one was done through a shop called RS Motors so I never spoke directly with the car's owner. Actually the entire kit was built before he changed his mind, so I had to build another engine-side mount as well. With your header I can't say what's going to happen...
Your concern about trans longevity is certainly valid, and I share it as well. That's the main reason I'll be sticking with just 12 psi most of the time. The gears have shown increased life with cryo-treating, but the bottom line is this: if you're going to be spending a lot of time at the track then you have to view the trans as a replacement item occasionally. 4th gear will die first because its narrower than the others. I don't have any first hand experience with the GearX setup, but at least the ratios are better than Honda's.
Yep, my Elise is a street car, pure street car. I'm not a talented enough road-race driver to make competition worth my time. Once I got back from Viet Nam most of the competitive fervor I felt as a kid had been completely satisfied, being hunted and killing people will do that for some of us, others never learn.
That American Touge (Derek and I call it Too Gay) thing I did was done on a whim because I know one of the producers. What's really funny is I didn't change anything before I drove it out to the track. That's the same setup I use for driving to the grocery store. Tsuchiya-san wasn't even driving the car all that hard, I don't think he ever took it above 7,000 rpm. Glad you enjoyed it!
Take care and have fun,
Joe
 

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Joe McCarthy said:
Murray,
I agree with you about Phil doing a good job, he tends to think outside the lines rather than following what everyone else is doing. Except in the case of the heat exchanger. Ask him what he'd do if it being a bolt-on wasn't a consideration and see what he says. That makes a big difference when you're designing something as a user installed kit. Even Lotus went to front-mounted water/air heat exchangers on their GT3 cars once they realized they'd made a mistake mounting an air to air setup in the hot-ass engine bay.
Yea up front is ideal, and FWIW for his personal 400whp 2zz car he has the same exchanger I do in back and also another centrally located exchanger up front as well. So... I know he knows it's no perfect back there.

Joe McCarthy said:
Making the heat exchangers efficient is all about the volume of water you can flow through them, so no part of the entire system should be smaller than the I.D. of the pump's discharge port, and ideally a little bigger since the lines are so damn long. Its just unpressurized warm water in this case, so there's no need to use AN hose. AN hose is heavy too! Measure the I.D. of a -10 AN fitting, its a LOT smaller than you'd expect considering each 'dash number' is supposed to represent 1/16". On long-run systems I always use at least -12 AN if the system in question calls for it.
Thanks for the heads up on cleaning them I may be able to do that without too much issue. Unfortunately changing to -12 (or 3/4" standard hose) may be just more trouble than it is worth for me. It was a pain getting the -10AN (pushloc btw) through there, as well as having the -10AN fittings welded on. I honestly think it will be either run them the way they are now with the -10AN pushloc stuff or just skip them all together and save it for an upgrade down the road. Ultimately it wouldn't be much more difficult to add them down the road as it would be to add them now. That way I could always get some data on everything now and see how much it actually helps with better exchangers up front. Hey might be good data for the community in the end.

Joe McCarthy said:
The boost curve is NOT flat, that's a pretty common misconception. It rises gradually all the way to the redline. On my 16.5 psi chart its at 10 psi at 3,250 rpm, 12 psi at 4,500 rpm, 14 psi at 6,200 rpm, and 16 psi at 8,400 rpm.
Yea I didn't mean to say it was totally flat, I'm aware it is not. Just an observation of the difference in boost you saw versus what I saw with a similar blower/engine drive ratio. I can pull up an old log of mine and overlay them, it would be more clear.

Joe McCarthy said:
1st gen. Eaton blowers had straight extruded rotors, so its gotta be later than that. If I remember correctly the S/C T-bird used a 2nd or 3rd gen. rotor group. Your case is identical to the T-bird M90, so I think the only new casting you got is the throttle body adapter. Look at the quality of the castings, they were obviously made by different people.
I agree the casting differences in the blower casing and throttle adapter castings are noticeable. HOWEVER I am like 90% sure it really is an aftermarket supercharger casting:
1) It has a "Magnum Powers" logo in raised embossed lettering (certainly not proof positive, but a hint)
2) There aren't visual machining marks making it seem like a modified stock case.
3) This is right off the website:
http://www.magnumpowers.com/tbrd_MPx.php
magnumpowers.com said:
The MPx 90 cubic inch Supercharger case pictured is cast from 356-T6 aluminum that is stronger then the factory Eaton material. It has longer intake and exit port duration then the Eaton M90 allowing the supercharger to be spun much faster without loosing volumetric efficiency, which results in the generation of excessive heat.

In addition to the stronger 356-T6 material the MPx case has thicker wall thicknesses and a stiffening boss running the full length creating a very stiff case that will not flex while under load.

Since the case is a new casting there is no reason to send your M90 to Magnum Powers to have it ported. Simply order the case, which comes with a MP Intake Plenum, install your rotors, fill it with supercharger fluid and have fun.
Joe McCarthy said:
The car dancing around is a function of the increased torque input, but its also due to the rubber suspension bushings and the absolutely horrible bump-steer Lotus puts into the front end geometry. That's the reason your steering wheel is dancing around like it does! I've already fixed both of those things in my car. Derek's car has the bump-steer fix, but is still using stock A-arm bushings.
With my K-series conversion kit there's the option of either K20 or K24 as far as the engine mounts and exhaust system goes, but one guy in Minnesota told me he was going to use a K20 and then after the header had already been built changed his mind to a K24. Fortunately I designed the header to sit low enough in the space that raising it up didn't cause any problem, and I use V-bands rather than bolted flanges so the 3" muffler still lived where it belonged. That one was done through a shop called RS Motors so I never spoke directly with the car's owner. Actually the entire kit was built before he changed his mind, so I had to build another engine-side mount as well. With your header I can't say what's going to happen...
Ahh yea I had a buddy of mine do a custom header for me. Collector, v-band all that is there just that the fitment is so-so. I just didn't want to risk the ~19mm of clearance. Maybe in the future?!

Yea the guy who had the RS Motors swap has posted on Lotus Talk a few times. He seems to be pretty happy with the built NA K24.

Joe McCarthy said:
Your concern about trans longevity is certainly valid, and I share it as well. That's the main reason I'll be sticking with just 12 psi most of the time. The gears have shown increased life with cryo-treating, but the bottom line is this: if you're going to be spending a lot of time at the track then you have to view the trans as a replacement item occasionally. 4th gear will die first because its narrower than the others. I don't have any first hand experience with the GearX setup, but at least the ratios are better than Honda's.
Yea that's kind of what I figured. I'm thinking if, make that when, it does blow I will give a helical cut aftermarket set a shot. My working on car time has become much smaller recently and I really can't afford the time switching/rebuilding transmissions every season (or worse).

Joe McCarthy said:
Yep, my Elise is a street car, pure street car. I'm not a talented enough road-race driver to make competition worth my time. Once I got back from Viet Nam most of the competitive fervor I felt as a kid had been completely satisfied, being hunted and killing people will do that for some of us, others never learn.
That American Touge (Derek and I call it Too Gay) thing I did was done on a whim because I know one of the producers. What's really funny is I didn't change anything before I drove it out to the track. That's the same setup I use for driving to the grocery store. Tsuchiya-san wasn't even driving the car all that hard, I don't think he ever took it above 7,000 rpm. Glad you enjoyed it!
Take care and have fun,
Joe
Too Gay or not, it was a fun video to watch and great for inspiration! If you ever put up any more videos of the thing, especially ones of it on track or even just fooling around I'd love to see them :)
 

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I was beginning to think you and I were the only ones talking, glad to see someone else. Nobody knows more about this Honda Elise/Exige stuff than I do, so its worth reading if only for the information.
I haven't actually seen a dyno chart from Phil's setup that shows it making 400 HP. Am I missing something or is this just another example of "fudge factoring" for drivetrain losses? Let's get real here, do you know anybody who drives a car without a transmission? The power that's available AFTER all the parasitic losses is what's REAL HP. Anything else is just advertising BS. Who cares what an engine makes at the flywheel? Its not real world HP.
All I can do is give you advice and point out what works best, its always up to your decision in the end. The intercooler stuff.
On the M90 thing I'm just going on what I can see in the photos, I certainly may be wrong since I haven't seen the case up close like you have. Bottom line is and old-school M90 will pump just about as much air as a new R1320 for less money, and with enough intercooler it'll pump more, so you've got a really good setup going for a whole lot less money and time than I spent. My K23 is worth $30,000. Part of why I do everything, a major part in fact, is that I get off on learning new things. Doing things that haven't been done before and adding to my own brain in the process is just pure fun for me. Been doing it a long time and I never get tired of it.
So gather all the data you can while you're making changes and share it with everyone, that's one of the cool things about forums like this. Too bad there's so much non-information and dis-information floating around on them.
The guy who had his car done at RS motors will be a lot happier once he gets one of my new intake manifolds on his engine. It'll make like 360 HP N/A.
OK, so for whatever reasons, if you can't afford the time to be maintaining your transmission then you need to either back off on the boost level or not spend much time at the track. Cars that are broken all the time are absolutely no fun unless you're a masochist or a serious student of broken parts. Metal fatigue is all based on unit loading and cycles of loading. At a low enough load the gear will last forever, at a high enough load it'll be destroyed in a heartbeat. I've personally witnessed a bone-stock K20A turbocharged (with turbo cams) making 975 HP, and the trans actually lasted for something like 15 dyno pulls before 3rd gear finally said "No More"! I was amazed it didn't let go on the 2nd pull... That's the reason the cryo-treating works, it enables the metal to withstand more cycles at a greater load by refining the grain structure at extremely low temperature.
In Japan its pronounced Towgay, but since Touge is where drifting came from we call it Too Gay instead. I'll be glad when drifting finally goes the way of Disco and is nothing more than a bad memory. Just my opinion... Who knows, maybe they'll come back over and do another one. I'll ask Masa (the producer)next time I see him. It cost a bunch of money so maybe their videos weren't selling enough and they decided they couldn't afford to do the American Touge anymore.
Anything else you want to know?
Take care and have fun,
Joe
 
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