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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am swapping an ERL S2K oil pump onto my k24a2. I realize that I need to block off the oil jet hole.

My question relates to the passage feeding the timing chain tensioner.




Shown here with the corresponding port on K24a2 oil pump:




And a better view of the port from the k24a2 oil pump:




Here is a picture of the block showing oil passage behind the timing chain tensioner. The red arrow shows the port corresponding to the K24a2 pump. The green arrows show the passage of oil (high pressure) circulating behind the timing chain tensioner:





And here is where the oil eventually meets the timing chain tensioner and ultimately lubricates the timing chain itself:



Here is a video showing the oil circulating behind the tct...this was primed with 30-40 psi of pressure (credit: beat92240):
http://s736.beta.photobucket.com/us...-A0E08C343638-13288-00000E398BCDDF47.mp4.html



My concern is that the ERL S2K pump doesn't have the port to supply the timing chain...instead what you see is the end of a bolt that lines up with the oil port on the k24a2 block:




Any help would be GREATLY appreciated:up::heart::up:
 

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Interesting. I allways ran a k20 pump so never look at the s2k pump. Is there is a way to drill that hole?

Stefan
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply.

It's not possible to drill that hole because it's actually the bottom of this bolt:




BTW...I realize these are the $hittiest arrows ever...my buddy's mouse is fawked up:rolleyes:
 

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There have to be others using the S2K oil pump. Does the k20a2 pump have this channel to supply oil to the timing chain tensioner?

I'll call Seth at ERL today to get more info...
thats what i would do. its funny you see alot of people using the pump with no questions about this.... this is the first ive heard of this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, my buddy is a freaking ACE certified engine ninja....he also questions everything which is good. Fortunately, he didn't take for granted that the ERL pump would be compatible with the k24...

Was everyone aware of the oil channel behind the timing chain tensioner? If not, I wonder if swapping oil pumps might explain some of the catastrophic TC failures in the past?
 

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I think ill stick with oem. I was searching on the forums about the erl pump thinking I would need it for my build and saw this thread u made black. Think ill save my $475 towards something else. Ill be lookin at this on ur build over on 7thgen lil closer. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I spoke with Seth @ ERL. I was hoping he would respond with a detailed explanation of that port in the bottom end.

I learned alot about the bottom end from dealing with this. The way I understand it, there is a fairly large oil galley within the block itself. The oil pump doesn't push oil up to the timing chain tensioner...instead the port on the oil pump (corresponding with the one on the block) is more of a drain for oil coming from the galley (within the block) back down to the oil pan.

Seth used the analogy of a turbo set up with a blow off valve when the pressure gets too high within the system.



A similar situation arises with the oil jet hole (green arrow below)...apparently if this plug is left in place, the oil pressure will drop precipitiously because oil will be siphoned off into the extensive oil galley within the block (this is my limited understanding of the situation). The ERL kit includes a bolt and washer to plug this hole.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think ill stick with oem. I was searching on the forums about the erl pump thinking I would need it for my build and saw this thread u made black. Think ill save my $475 towards something else. Ill be lookin at this on ur build over on 7thgen lil closer. :)
If you have any plans to rev that 2.5 stroker over 8500 rpm then I would seriously consider the S2K pump.

Tomola said:
I have been turning my stock Z4 to 9k for 13,000 kms. There was some evidence indicating cavitation when the engine was opened. I've since installed crower stage II FI cams and forged bottom end and will be turning to 9~9.5k all day.

In my opinion if you are no going over 8500 rpm the stock oil pump is fine. The second you go over 8500 rpm your killing your engine with the stock pump. I have ordered my ERL S2k pump and would not turn my engine to 9k + rpm without it. I will be running a stock K24 pan and will be paying close attention to the oil pressure in long tight sweeping bends, hoping to get away without any baffles in the pan.. If there are some decent pressure drops the pan will need some baffles....
Full discussion: http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=23857&page=4
 

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Alrighty...let's get down to bwass taacks (reference anyone??)

Anyway, thanks Brian for looking at this. We've been going over this one for a while but don't know if anyone's brought it up on the forums.
I have taken a few pics that will really help see what's going on here. The tiny little hole on the bottom of the block is blocked off by our S2k pump, yes. But it's ok. That hole normally gave a little bit of oil to the old K24 pump, as you know, it's a weak pump so no one uses them.
Now, the tensioner actually uses oil from the main oil galley running through the block (pictured below). You can see that there's normally a plug in this hole but I've taken a pic of a block without one so you can see what's going on. Unless the oil was coming from a nicely pressurized source, there's no way the tensioner would be able to effectively do its job. Let's take a look...




Now, another little something to note, is that in our kit, we include the mounting hardware for the pump but also, a 10mm plug. What's this for?
It is used to plug the oil restrictor hole in the bottom of a K24 block. Now, you have the restrictor in your block that you have pictured Brian. Some K24 blocks are already tapped and have a little brass orface down in there so you can find the right bolt and just throw it in there. If you don't plug this hole, you WILL NOT have very much oil pressure. The block can be drilled and tapped with a 10x1 tap for the plug we provide. What I have pictured below is what comes in the kit, where it goes, and the last pic is the plug installed in the block. (#'s corresponding to their part)...





The last little tidbit... Sometimes people have an old style K24 oil pump chain guide. That's ok but, if you do you will probably have to cut it to work. This is pictured below. Also, you will need a K24, not K20, Chain Tensioner guide. This is the one that's on the right side if looking at the crank snout and has a crescent moon shaped piece of nylon on the metal.



Hope this helps!
 

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Now if we only had a baffle for the S2K pump/K24 oil pan combo:rolleyes::silly::p
HEHE...Well, this is the only thing I've seen. K20A2 baffle/windage tray. Cut to fit K24 block with ERL S2000 oil pump.

Take a look...and get to fabricating! :p

 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Been there, done that...waiting on the T-shirt:p




Seriously though, this won't solve the issue of oil starvation in long sweeping corners. Maybe a group buy would give some incentive for the ERL crew to bring a baffled K24 pan to the market for the community:rolleyes:



BTW, this thread really delivers:dance:
 

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Really informative! Is this S2k modded pump for use with a steel pan?
Yes this thread delivers! :up::up:

STICKY or DIY THIS THREAD!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thats true. And yes I know. I will prolly buy it. So black the tray has to be cut to fit the s2k pump? If its gotta be cut, would that create any oil leaks or mishaps since theres been a cut in the plate?
In theory, if the welds are solid there shouldn't be any issues with leaks. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anyone actually run this set up on the track...that will be the true test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Some more info from the link I posted earlier:

In reference to using the s2k pump with a pan not designed for it, here are three pictures showing what the k20a2 oil pump looks like when using the correct oil pan

Notice the pickup lines up perfectly with the oval indentation

This is the best shot I could get showing how close the pickup is to the bottom of the pan.

You can't see it in the picture, but the k20a2 oil pump has dimples on its pickup. I assume this is so the pump doesn't suction itself to the pan. The s2k oil pump does not have these 'dimples'



The part number for the r40 oil pan is 11200-R40-A00.

Here is the stamped R40 oil pan

Here is the s2k pump installed with the k24 steel pan

Here is a closeup of how close the s2k pump is to the bottom of the pan. It appears to be touching.

Using some clay, you are able to see exactly where the s2k pump sits

Here is a pic of the s2k pump with the R40 aluminum pan. This pan does not have an oval indentation where the pickup would be like all previous pans.

A shot of the pump pickup and it's distance from the bottom of the pan.

Another shot of the oil pump pickup and pan bottom. Is this too much distance between the two?

Picture of the s2k pump and its distance from a structural support component of the R40 pan




Here are more comparison pics

r40 oil pan vs k20a2 oil pan









r40 aluminum pan vs k24 steel pan




 
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