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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
I am pretty certain you won't find any wiring problems in that ECU Jumper Harness.
We have sold several that are installed and being used without issue.
We even use them here on our K20Z1 swaps.

However it can't hurt to check...
Please LMK if you find any problems.
Mike,

I feel the same way, but I am going pretty far in eliminating the impossible, so, if we have read our Arthur Conan Doyle, we know what is next.

E connector re-confirmed A2 spec exactly as in the Hondata A2 diagram.

C101 confirmed. Main relay energizes fuel pump relay, O2S relay and C101 pins 9, 14 and 20.

I can't help but wonder if I am still misunderstanding signal positive and signal negative on the O2S. What would happen if they were reversed?
 

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at the ecu trace the wires going to (IE K20A2 SPEC)
a1 blk/wht
a6 red
a16 red/yel
a22 white

e2 white/red
e6 black/white
e14 lt green
e24 yellow
e26 blue
... IF NEED BE USE THE LINK I PM'D YOU

here is z1 v a2 (RED) pins for E-plug

E1 - Not used on z1 a2 IMOFPR (same as e17 z1)
E2 -RVS (Yel/Red) a2 sho2s(same as e20 z1) z1 rvs needs to go to a2 b7
E3 -LG3 (Brn/Ylw) same
E4 -SG3 (Pink) same
E5 -VCC3 (Ylw/Blue) same
e6 - not used on z1 s02shtc (same as e21 z1)
E7 -MRLY (Red/Ylw) same
E8 -AFSHTRC (Orn) same
E9 -IG1 (Blk/Ylw) same
e10 - not used both
e11 - not used both
E12 -FANC (Grn/Wht) not used on a2 z1 fanc needs to a2 b6
E13 -SEFMJ(Ylw) a/t ill on a2 z1 multiplex to needs to go to a2 e24
E14 -FTP (Lt Grn) same
E15 -ELD (Grn/Red) same
E16 -PSPSW(Lt grn/Blk) same
E17 -IMOFPR(Grn/Ylw) not used on a2 z1 imofpr to a2 e1
E18 -ACC (Red) same
E19 -VSV (Lt Grn/Red) not used on a2 z1 vsv to a2 e21
E20 -SHO2S(Wht/Red) evap bypass on a2 - cannot find z1 same z1 sho2s to a2 pin e2
E21 -SO2SHTC(Blk/Wht) vsv on a2 z1 so2shtc to a2 e6
E22 -BKSW (Wht/Blk) same
E23 -K.Line(Lt Blue) same
e24 - not used on z1 sefmj (multiplx) on a2 see z1 e13 above
E25 -NEP (Blue) to a2 e26
E26 -VSSOUT(Blue/Wht) to a2 e25
E27 -IMOCD(Red/Blue) same
E29 -SCS (Brn) same
E30 -WEN (Red/Wht) same
E31 -MIL (Grn/Orn) same
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
A 1, 6, 16, 22 verified from O2S connector (engine side of connector) to ECU. If Mike's write-up is correct, then my wires are correct.

E2: absent.
E6: absent.
E14: absent. (along with everything in the second row of the E connector.)
E24: absent.
E26: Wired to tachometer.
 

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Cannot upload calibration as far as I have seen. It is the "k20a2-rsx-stock.kal," the seventh calibration down the list in the Hondata menu. It has a notation that it is the exact stock A2 map.
on my list, the 7th k20a2 map is rsx-stock-440cc... k20a-stock doesn't come until near the end of the k20a2 maps

what version of Kmanager are you running?

-under MISC tab, uncheck the following Immobilizer, error checking (for now later try it enabled) Purge System Enabled, Uncheck ELD, check countershaft under speed signal.
-fuel trim make sure cranking & ind cyl are 0
-under closed loop make sure 2ndary o2 is unchecked

This all goes back to it being more helpful to have the actual map on the car, zipped & uploaded here.

I dunno man, I don't have experience wiring things the way you have them. never had problems like this, not saying its related.

fyi if the o2 heater/sensor was originally wired incorrectly you can fry a board in the ecu. I know, I did it years ago

edit - unfortunately I cannot open these zipped files (no winzip on the comp I am on) if you like email it to me
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Another datalog, this time in closed loop. Heh...figured out how to make it idle at 14.5:1--simply drop the fuel pressure to 22psi!! Of course, this is not the solution, but at least I got the ECU to shoot for something other than 11.5:1 at idle. Stumble is understandably worse and rev-up is sluggish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 · (Edited)
on my list, the 7th k20a2 map is rsx-stock-440cc... k20a-stock doesn't come until near the end of the k20a2 maps

what version of Kmanager are you running?

-under MISC tab, uncheck the following Immobilizer, error checking (for now later try it enabled) Purge System Enabled, Uncheck ELD, check countershaft under speed signal.
-fuel trim make sure cranking & ind cyl are 0
-under closed loop make sure 2ndary o2 is unchecked

This all goes back to it being more helpful to have the actual map on the car, zipped & uploaded here.

I dunno man, I don't have experience wiring things the way you have them. never had problems like this, not saying its related.

fyi if the o2 heater/sensor was originally wired incorrectly you can fry a board in the ecu. I know, I did it years ago

edit - unfortunately I cannot open these zipped files (no winzip on the comp I am on) if you like email it to me
Not the seventh A2 map. The seventh overall, from the top.

O2S wiring has never changed. I have checked it ad nauseum, but I have never been able to find anything to change.

Kmanager 3.1.6.

All unchecking and checking done as soon as I upload a calibration.

Do you want all of the datalogs emailed to you in .rar?

ALL Fuel Trim values are 0 and always have been, including overall fuel trim.
 

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if you email me map & datalogs please don't .zip or .rar

unfortunately I am running out of ideas/possibilities other than a bad fitting/loose pin somewhere or another sort of wiring issue.

maybe time to get the ecu tested or change the engine harness... i dunno

can you try the ecu in another car/motor/harness setup?
 

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I agree with testing the KPro.
Running it on another car would be helpful to eliminate it as a possible culprit.

Jon is going to try a stock A2 ecu with an Immobilizer Bypass (they need it for another build anyway) so hopefully something will come from there...

This problem is interesting and annoying at the same time...
 

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Jon,

Please take some time to check the wiring on our jumper harness.
It should only take you a few mins and with this problem still hanging around the way it is, it really can't hurt to check it out.

Also I am not aware of any counterfeit KPro 3 ecus? Does anyone know if there are any fake V3's in circulation?
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
Might wanna contact this guy http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=806242 he is in australia and had the same problem.

When I was saying check the wiring, not only did I mean the right wires but check the way pins are sitting in the connectors
OK. I wrote the guy a PM. We'll see.

Will contact my semi-local Hondata distributor and see if he has a car I can plug the KPRO into.

Pins are all in place in the connector housings. I have had experience before with pins eventually pushing back out of the housings or even breaking. Chased problems for months on a VW I had until a friend dug into it and found a faulty pin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 · (Edited)
Breakthrough...maybe.

I spoke with our distributor. He asked what the MAP value is. I told him that I was seeing 16-17" vacuum at idle. He said that that is not enough vacuum. I asked him if the PNs match for MAP sensors between A2 (the KPRO I am working with) and Z1 (the engine.) PNs are different. That doesn't necessarily mean that the scales are different, but the A2 MAP sensor is definitely physically different on the outside. So, I swapped in an A2 MAP sensor and fired it up. Idle vacuum settles in around 18.6" once the IAC has closed from the cold start routine. Mixture is more like 12:1-13:1. Stumble unchanged.

This led me to attempt a modified MAP signal under the "MAP" tab. If I enter a value of 30kPa, the engine will idle between 14:1 and 14.7:1!

It will stall or stumble every time I attempt to open the throttle, but it WILL idle at or near stoichiometric. That is at least partial success in my book.

Does this help guide anybody in advising me from this point?

I need to make sure that I have no intake vacuum leaks, but I really don't think that is the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
Ideas based on my last post?

The car is now running with an A2 MAP sensor, which makes a small difference in idle mixture.

I have been told that the ECU needs to see 20" of vacuum, but it is seeing no more than 19. If I modify the MAP signal at idle to 20", I can get it to idle at stoich. I think we are closer to the solution.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
You can compare the MAP sensors to each other, just plug them in and read what they show. They are probably both fine. MAP values change with baro/temperature/elevation
The A2 unit read 2" more depression than the Z1 unit did, and that made about half the difference in idle mixture. Faking the MAP reading put the idle mixture right where it needs to be. Does that indicate that I should explore MAP-related possible causes?
 

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What I am saying is, if you have the sensors in your hand, and plug them in while watching the read out on K-pro, it should be the same. If you are testing them on different days, the reading will likely be different.

It sounds like you have an electrical problem, either with the ECU or in the wiring somewhere. Maybe it is part of the MAP circuit. I would think that it would show a code for a malfunctioning MAP though.

Your best bet is to try another ECU, or send that one in to Hondata. You verified the wiring, so I would try to verify the ECU next.
 

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Jon,

We have used both A2 and Z1 MAP Sensors w/ KPro on swaps here and they both worked fine.
This is not to say that there isn't a possible MAP related issue here.

I am still out of ideas on this problem.
Maybe when you try the OEM PRB ecu something will show itself.
 
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