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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
on the prowl for a bone stock FD2 or K20Z4 RSP head.
Doesn't need to include cams + cam gears, valve cover, cam sensors, or side waterneck - but everything else intact and in good to great condition.

Trying to build a poorman's FD2 K20 馃榿
 

Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Trying to build a poorman's FD2 K20
Have everything available, but the head is actually under investigation on the flow bench for this year. I can sell the cams immediately, but not the head. You find here in Europe, especially in Germany, more K20Z4 engines then heads. I am not sure if your head-buy-only-approach is more cheap. Complete heads go for 700 Euros and more, complete engines (long blocks) for 1600+ Euro, complete engines with tranny for 2500+ Euro. Shipping stuff is actually very expensive, I've paid 200 USD for just a head without cams and stuff, only for the shipping. I would wait until that Pandemic is no more cause for increased shipping costs and buy a complete long block.

If you check the local ebay here in Germany: eBay Kleinanzeigen | Kostenlos. Einfach. Lokal. Anzeigen gratis inserieren mit eBay Kleinanzeigen (ebay-kleinanzeigen.de) , there are plenty of K20Z4 engines available, actually 1 for 1200 Euro.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Have everything available, but the head is actually under investigation on the flow bench for this year. I can sell the cams immediately, but not the head. You find here in Europe, especially in Germany, more K20Z4 engines then heads. I am not sure if your head-buy-only-approach is more cheap. Complete heads go for 700 Euros and more, complete engines (long blocks) for 1600+ Euro, complete engines with tranny for 2500+ Euro. Shipping stuff is actually very expensive, I've paid 200 USD for just a head without cams and stuff, only for the shipping. I would wait until that Pandemic is no more cause for increased shipping costs and buy a complete long block.

If you check the local ebay here in Germany: eBay Kleinanzeigen | Kostenlos. Einfach. Lokal. Anzeigen gratis inserieren mit eBay Kleinanzeigen (ebay-kleinanzeigen.de) , there are plenty of K20Z4 engines available, actually 1 for 1200 Euro.
thanks for the ebay seller link! I did come across one of those guys earlier today whilst intl ebay searching.

There's actually a pretty clean z4 long block with a local jdm importer here I checked out last week. They want $3K for it but after finding out the compression ratio is 11.0, I got turned off by that alone. I was under the assumption they had RRC pistons, but have PRB pistons - meh. It didn't seem worth it if i split the motor, keep the head, sell the block or swap in some RRC pistons and basically convert it to an FD2 K20A, just seems like too much spendy work. I can basically make my own poorman's FD2 k20 for less than that with my existing Z1 long block (ie light PRB head port work to exceed RSP cfm's and toss in some RRC nippon racing pistons).
 

Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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...light PRB head port work to exceed RSP cfm's...
Flow, measured in the flow bench, is not everything making an engine well performing. The main key factor is velocity of the mass coming into the chamber. The RSP has a different port design - more to come when I mold it's port and compare it to todays PPA results - one can feel it by the finger. BTW, the valve seats design (4 angled design) are exactly the same. I definitely wouldn't sharpen the divider which is done by 99 % of the porters. It helps flow, but it doesn't help the mixture of flow and atomized fuel, as fuel droplets will seperate more at the wall around the sharpened divider.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Flow, measured in the flow bench, is not everything making an engine well performing. The main key factor is velocity of the mass coming into the chamber. The RSP has a different port design - more to come when I mold it's port and compare it to todays PPA results - one can feel it by the finger. BTW, the valve seats design (4 angled design) are exactly the same. I definitely wouldn't sharpen the divider which is done by 99 % of the porters. It helps flow, but it doesn't help the mixture of flow and atomized fuel, as fuel droplets will seperate more at the wall around the sharpened divider.
oooo would love to see port mold comparisons!
thanks for the additional details on the valve seats and dividers!
 

Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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oooo would love to see port mold comparisons!
thanks for the additional details on the valve seats and dividers!
Probably next week, @katman . Actually I am busy with other projects. But I am also so curious about the differences down at a more detailed level.
 

Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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We made the measurement of the RSP head. It was a bit a mess. First the sensor was offset by particles of the previous VAG head (typical EGR coal mine head) which wasn't washed before measuring. Lecture No. 1. Second after cleaning the flow measurement unit the we had a misalignment on the bore, which was anyway to small (ID 84 mm for VAG heads) as the K-series one wasn't fabricated yet. Lecture No. 2. And next lecture was, we are back in plan on the engine bench, so we concentrate on that the next weeks.

Anyway, the RSP head had even under those conditions more flow capacity then the EA113 4-valve head (34 mm intake valves, 84 mm bore size). Posting numbers does make no sense, as the too much was off. It will take some more Saturdays (the only time in the week we can work together) to get again on the flow bench, because the engine bench is now again frist priority. I need to get the DAMPFHAMMER tune finished. This year.
 

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As long as we learn in failure, forward progress is made. Keep your head up. We will be waiting!
 

Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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As long as we learn in failure, forward progress is made. Keep your head up. We will be waiting!
Thanks for your kind words. I will order some parts for the head stand-liner-bracket (Plexiglass) a head gasket for the center pins, which guarantee the head is centered over the liner-bore-stand and will adapt some function in the ProfiLab SW: Cd-value calculation, closed loop control of under pressure 2nd version and some improvements regarding overview. There is an ongoing on that, just sideway-wise only. Progress on the engine dyno thing is good, made huge steps last Saturday :).
 

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on the prowl for a bone stock FD2 or K20Z4 RSP head.
Doesn't need to include cams + cam gears, valve cover, cam sensors, or side waterneck - but everything else intact and in good to great condition.

Trying to build a poorman's FD2 K20 馃榿
THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL
I have one the day i got that intake manifold off and saw into the intake chambers how clean and smooth the casting is way better than rbc castings diff sand if I remember, but mine has been ported by Luke and NFS even if it was i would have to ask 7k plus so not in the range of a poor mans build anyway.
well I do wish you good luck I would check the JDM breakers all kind of stuff comes out of JP. Got mine from a breaker but I bought the whole power train of an fd2R to get it.
Either way I would say its $$$ for RSP sweetness but not impossible expect to replace valve guides as they tend to wear mine were quite on a 60K km head.
cheers and best of luck
 

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THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL
I have one the day i got that intake manifold off and saw into the intake chambers how clean and smooth the casting is way better than rbc castings diff sand if I remember, but mine has been ported by Luke and NFS even if it was i would have to ask 7k plus so not in the range of a poor mans build anyway.
well I do wish you good luck I would check the JDM breakers all kind of stuff comes out of JP. Got mine from a breaker but I bought the whole power train of an fd2R to get it.
Either way I would say its $$$ for RSP sweetness but not impossible expect to replace valve guides as they tend to wear mine were quite on a 60K km head.
cheers and best of luck
Worn, bent or burnt through valves are replaced. However, frequently the valve guides are not checked for their reusability, although the damage to the valves was often caused by worn valve guides.

The following valve damage and sealing problems can be caused by a worn valve guide:
  • Burnt through valve head
  • Breaks in the fillet of the valves
  • Breaks in the grooves for the valve cotters
  • Excessive wear of the valve stem faces
  • Worn rocker arms on one side
  • Increased oil consumption due to worn valve stem seals
  • Worn or burnt through valve seat inserts
Quite often vehicle manufacturers do not plan in a repair of the cylinder head. The spare part catalogues do not list any spare part numbers for new valve guides. Even the workshop documentation 鈥 particularly that for passenger cars 鈥 does not include any instructions on what to do when replacing valves. Furthermore, there is no mention of wear dimensions that are required for assessing the state of the complete valve train.
The following lists standard valve guide clearances. This information can be used alternatively as standard values if the vehicle manufacturer does not provide any values or replacing the valve train components is not allowed for.
In case of air-cooled cylinder heads and high-performance engines, due to the higher thermal load the upper range of the clearance tolerance is to be aimed for.

Stem diameterClearance: Intake valves

Back to me,
What they are saying is true. Visually if I think about a valve guide being hollow, a valve stem passing through it becomes off center the chances are greater the inside will be damaged at. Every supporting part in the valve train is affected when one or more of therm becomes worn. I just took my valves out cleaned them well back to stock form and each valve lost on average 0.80g-1.6g of debris.

I believe all Honda Kseries heads have problems with the valve guides. I know I need to replace mine. the question or better said the answer is that it only has to be done what 1-2 times in their life. How many times can you change them? One of the issues of valve guides is not just oil coming around them. It is the inside of the of the guide becomes out of shape. Here like what this company says , "
right now Honda USDM/Acura is having back order status on OEM Intake Valve Guides, so the next stop is to Supertech for me for intake valve guides because if the price. I only buy the oem exhaust valve guides (service) they are $106 for the 8qty.

I know in my Honda heart that I need to replace the valve guides all 16. I can do it 10,000-20,000 miles when the engine is coming back out
 

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Worn, bent or burnt through valves are replaced. However, frequently the valve guides are not checked for their reusability, although the damage to the valves was often caused by worn valve guides.

The following valve damage and sealing problems can be caused by a worn valve guide:
  • Burnt through valve head
  • Breaks in the fillet of the valves
  • Breaks in the grooves for the valve cotters
  • Excessive wear of the valve stem faces
  • Worn rocker arms on one side
  • Increased oil consumption due to worn valve stem seals
  • Worn or burnt through valve seat inserts
Quite often vehicle manufacturers do not plan in a repair of the cylinder head. The spare part catalogues do not list any spare part numbers for new valve guides. Even the workshop documentation 鈥 particularly that for passenger cars 鈥 does not include any instructions on what to do when replacing valves. Furthermore, there is no mention of wear dimensions that are required for assessing the state of the complete valve train.
The following lists standard valve guide clearances. This information can be used alternatively as standard values if the vehicle manufacturer does not provide any values or replacing the valve train components is not allowed for.
In case of air-cooled cylinder heads and high-performance engines, due to the higher thermal load the upper range of the clearance tolerance is to be aimed for.

Stem diameterClearance: Intake valves

Back to me,
What they are saying is true. Visually if I think about a valve guide being hollow, a valve stem passing through it becomes off center the chances are greater the inside will be damaged at. Every supporting part in the valve train is affected when one or more of therm becomes worn. I just took my valves out cleaned them well back to stock form and each valve lost on average 0.80g-1.6g of debris.

I believe all Honda Kseries heads have problems with the valve guides. I know I need to replace mine. the question or better said the answer is that it only has to be done what 1-2 times in their life. How many times can you change them? One of the issues of valve guides is not just oil coming around them. It is the inside of the of the guide becomes out of shape. Here like what this company says , "
right now Honda USDM/Acura is having back order status on OEM Intake Valve Guides, so the next stop is to Supertech for me for intake valve guides because if the price. I only buy the oem exhaust valve guides (service) they are $106 for the 8qty.

I know in my Honda heart that I need to replace the valve guides all 16. I can do it 10,000-20,000 miles when the engine is coming back out
That is exactly what i saw the inside of the guide was out of shape visibly and there was play in the unsprang valve, whether or not this is from abuse IDK it came out of a crashed car who knows how it was driven. but oem guides very soft and susceptible to wear i went with brass after market option to remedy this issue maybe but it may be a geometry issue pressure points and such.
 
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