I am trying to determine if I want to with a Kirk bolt in cage or a S&W weld in. If I go with the weld in I will be having it welded by a master welder I know, however he has never done a cage. Am I opening myself up to a major headache if I go this route? I don't want to pay $2000 to have a professional cage builder make one. Either way they will be SCCA/NASA compliant. Would it be better to go with a bolt in? How is the fitment with a S&W?
Roll cage
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Custom > mass produced weld in > mass produced bolt in.
$2000 for a custom cage is not bad. Where do you live? Getting proper fitment from a mass produced cage is a roll of the dice.
$2000 for a custom cage is not bad. Where do you live? Getting proper fitment from a mass produced cage is a roll of the dice.
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$2000 is an amazing price for a custom cage. Think about it this way. A welding shop close to my house charges about $20 to weld a piece of exhaust piping. (They charge $90/hr and it takes like 15 minutes) so for a custom cage, you're looking at the initial designing process, plus about 30+ welds depending on complexity, plus the bending of the piping, and the cost of the piping itself. It all adds up. I recently paid $5000 for a custom cage. It did have a little bit of Sw-20 Mr2 around it, but I was mostly paying for the rally-spec roll cage that was in it.
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I'm thinking about trailering my car to this guy for a custom cage and removable tubular front end:
http://www.izzyscustomcages.com/
http://www.izzyscustomcages.com/
Thank you for your comments guys. $2k was just a number I threw out there, I know it will be more then than that based on what I have seen. My point was that I don't want to pay that much for one when I know that I can get a bolt in or weld in kit for much cheaper. I understand that a full custom would be the nuts, but I don't necessarily need that. I believe that the kit cages (bolt or weld) are just as safe as a custom. What you sacrifice is the perfect fit, which I am fine with.
That being said, I have seen the Kirk cages and I know they work well, but I have not seen a S&W, nor have I been involved with welding one in. Thats why I was wondering if it takes a skilled installer to fit a weld in kit together and have it be legal, or is fairly straight forward.
btw, I am in the Philadelphia area.
That being said, I have seen the Kirk cages and I know they work well, but I have not seen a S&W, nor have I been involved with welding one in. Thats why I was wondering if it takes a skilled installer to fit a weld in kit together and have it be legal, or is fairly straight forward.
btw, I am in the Philadelphia area.
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Well first off, bolt in will never be as safe as weld in. Weld in is always the safest. And depending on how extreme the cage is, you may need to get custom, but back to the original question, weld in is pretty straightforward if you know someone who can weld steel. There's nothing special required really. Just proper preparation for the area being welded, but thats common knowledge for welding.
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1st you need to research rules and regulations for the type and class of racing you plan on doing. A cage that passes for scca solo auto-x can be much cheaper than a cage for scca Honda Challenge. Also think about what you want to race in down the road. Many times it's 3x as much to modify a cage than to make it right the first time.
You can see some fabrication pics of scca world challenge, Honda challenge & NASA cages here http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=85753&page=4
FYI I an almost sure that a bolt in cage will not be legal for most sanctioned competitive road racing. Normally perfect/tight fitment is done, not for looks, but for strength and safety. The cage is there to protect you, skimping or cutting corners only increases chances of not passing tech or you getting hurt. Lastly go to someone that's done it before, ask their customers about the quality of the finished cage. I would not take it to someone for their 1st time.
You can see some fabrication pics of scca world challenge, Honda challenge & NASA cages here http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=85753&page=4
FYI I an almost sure that a bolt in cage will not be legal for most sanctioned competitive road racing. Normally perfect/tight fitment is done, not for looks, but for strength and safety. The cage is there to protect you, skimping or cutting corners only increases chances of not passing tech or you getting hurt. Lastly go to someone that's done it before, ask their customers about the quality of the finished cage. I would not take it to someone for their 1st time.
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what kind of cage are you looking for? i looked into izzy for mine, he is a one man shop. if you want an NHRA cage, there is a place about 30mins from me that did mine and is very highly rated for NHRA cages.
x2 i would take their advice, cant put a price on safety
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I'm contemplating a 4 point harness bar and removable tube frame front.
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holy racecar batman!
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It's not as crazy as it sounds...it will definitely make working on the starter, alternator, t stat, and coolant system a lot easier. Not 100% set on it just because of the logistical difficulties of trailering my car to St Louis.
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You need to research the cage rules about the type of racing you will be doing initially, and any kind of racing you realistically forsee yourself doing in the future.
Reason I say this is because you:
A) Do not want to pay for a cage that you put in and won't pass tech for the racing that you want to do now, then have to spend the money again.
B) Do not want to put a cage in that passes tech for the type of racing you are doing now, but be SOL in the future when you want to step it up.
Both issues lead to you spending more money. But this is why I say do it all now.
Cage welding is not easy, trust me, I've done it and continue to do it. It is awkward, tight, and systematic. That's BEFORE you are trying to make a bolt in cage into a full Honda Challenge car. Once you have a cage in the car it is very difficult to make modifications or change things. It takes a lot of extra time, and a lot of extra money out of your pocket.
The other reason that custom cages are better than the premade ones, is not due to fit and finish necessarily, but because sometimes they are just as expensive to weld in as a premade is. Why? Because of the fitment. Premade ones aren't guaranteed to fit, and TIG welding needs precise fitment to not only look nice, but even be possible. Premades don't always fit nice, so instead the cage builder has to sit there and tweak and move and modify bars all over the place. After which, what didn't really fit then definitely doesn't fit now, and it's all a mess.
What I'm saying, spend the money and put a well made cage in the car that will cover you for any class you want to run. You will save money and aggravation in the long run. Trust me, I know, I have to convert my 6pt into a 10pt and it is going to be a nightmare. :fuuu:
Thats good advice. I talked to S&W today and the weld in kit is for a car with an interior, but they offer a custom cage that you weld in based off of measurements you provide. Seems simple enough, but never welding one in I can imagine that issues might arise when you actually go to fit it together.
I am plan to race in honda challenge and also SCCA so I need to have it meet both requirements. I've reviewed both GCRs and feel comfortable with the rules.
What kind of clearance is there typically between body and the cage?
Are you converting to 10 point for HC?
I am plan to race in honda challenge and also SCCA so I need to have it meet both requirements. I've reviewed both GCRs and feel comfortable with the rules.
What kind of clearance is there typically between body and the cage?
Are you converting to 10 point for HC?
Points is basically how many contacts points the cage makes with the chassis. The points are located on mounting plates, each plate contains a point.
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these guys do some decent cages(brokedickracing) and good prices but obvi need to weld them in. they also offer more than this eight point but here is one of them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260893768981?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/260893768981?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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Here are some pics of my cage finished with paint.
Custom Cages export all over the world, just to let you know.
This cage is £480 in CDS and about £600 in T45 - no vat as you're abroad so all you need is someone to fit.
http://www.customcages.co.uk/Rollca...er=Honda&model=Civic EG6 Clubman&type=6 Point
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Custom Cages export all over the world, just to let you know.
This cage is £480 in CDS and about £600 in T45 - no vat as you're abroad so all you need is someone to fit.
http://www.customcages.co.uk/Rollca...er=Honda&model=Civic EG6 Clubman&type=6 Point
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