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I'm running the moroso version of this. I figure the worst case scenario is when the oil pressure gets low, the accumulator tops up the sump to the point that its pumping again.
 

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what about using a Accusump assembly?

i want to install that system into my build
An Accusump is a band aid for an oil system that does not work. A good baffled wet sump pan takes care of 95% of aggressive driving/racing situations. If a baffled wet sump pan is inadequate, you should be looking to a dry sump system. An accusump adds too much complexity for the benefits it provides.
 

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it feeds into the oil inlet of the engine, not the pump inlet/sump
Yes but it can only supply oil pressure for a second or 2 at best.

But theoretically in my head the extra litre of oil that's accumulated in the sump after its emptied will temporarily raise the oil level to where the oil pickup is sucking oil again.
 

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An Accusump is a band aid for an oil system that does not work. A good baffled wet sump pan takes care of 95% of aggressive driving/racing situations. If a baffled wet sump pan is inadequate, you should be looking to a dry sump system. An accusump adds too much complexity for the benefits it provides.
I see other benefits to the Accusump. And hardly is the install complex. Why not have both a good baffled wet sump pan and Accusump?
 

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I see other benefits to the Accusump. And hardly is the install complex. Why not have both a good baffled wet sump pan and Accusump?
The only benefit I see to an Accusump is the ability to prime the oil system before startup. But lets be realistic, there are billions of engines that are started without priming the oil system and their life, hundreds of thousands of miles, does not appear to be compromised by this.

I wrote the following in another thread a while ago.

In order to run an accusump, you will likely need to add a sandwich plate to your oil filter in order to get the needed volume of oil out of and back into the accusump. Accusumps are typically run in conjunction with an oil cooler. If teed into an external oil line, you will need a one way check valve to make sure the Accusump flows oil into the engine. Check valves are restrictive. You will need a valve on the accusump. Manual valves are the most reliable but require the accusump to be within arms reach of you in the driver's seat, so likely you need an electric valve. For some reason the electric valves have a high failure rate.

If the accusump is being utilized, that means the engine's oil pickup is dry, the accusump will start supplying oil at the pressure just before the pickup went dry. From that point on, the pressure will drop as the oil flows and the air that is compressed in the accusump expands. When oil makes contact with the pickup again the pump will need to scavenge the air in the pickup to re-prime the pump. From first hand experience, I have seen this take an alarming amount of time. Once the pump is re-primed and pumping oil again, the pressure to the engine will be low because the pump is both supplying the engine and refilling the accusump. Depending on how bad the oil starvation is, this can happen multiple times during a lap.

The oil level in the engine's sump should be full when oil pressure is at it's peak. That means any time the oil pressure is lower, the accusump will have pushed out some of it's oil and the sump will be over filled. This could lead to oil windage, robbing HP and aerating the oil. Aerated oil can lead to the same issues as lack of oil/pressure.

In order to reduce the dependence on the accusump, a baffled pan should still be used.
 

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The only benefit I see to an Accusump is the ability to prime the oil system before startup. But lets be realistic, there are billions of engines that are started without priming the oil system and their life, hundreds of thousands of miles, does not appear to be compromised by this.

I wrote the following in another thread a while ago.

In order to run an accusump, you will likely need to add a sandwich plate to your oil filter in order to get the needed volume of oil out of and back into the accusump. Accusumps are typically run in conjunction with an oil cooler. If teed into an external oil line, you will need a one way check valve to make sure the Accusump flows oil into the engine. Check valves are restrictive. You will need a valve on the accusump. Manual valves are the most reliable but require the accusump to be within arms reach of you in the driver's seat, so likely you need an electric valve. For some reason the electric valves have a high failure rate.

If the accusump is being utilized, that means the engine's oil pickup is dry, the accusump will start supplying oil at the pressure just before the pickup went dry. From that point on, the pressure will drop as the oil flows and the air that is compressed in the accusump expands. When oil makes contact with the pickup again the pump will need to scavenge the air in the pickup to re-prime the pump. From first hand experience, I have seen this take an alarming amount of time. Once the pump is re-primed and pumping oil again, the pressure to the engine will be low because the pump is both supplying the engine and refilling the accusump. Depending on how bad the oil starvation is, this can happen multiple times during a lap.

The oil level in the engine's sump should be full when oil pressure is at it's peak. That means any time the oil pressure is lower, the accusump will have pushed out some of it's oil and the sump will be over filled. This could lead to oil windage, robbing HP and aerating the oil. Aerated oil can lead to the same issues as lack of oil/pressure.

In order to reduce the dependence on the accusump, a baffled pan should still be used.
I appreciate your point of view. I do not own a Accusump, I am enjoying technical documents on the subject. I would love to own a Accusump set up just for the fact it helps the engine on start-ups. I am just into mechanical systems, mechanical theory, etc..

The Accusump does what it came into town to do, nothing short of that. In fact, expectations were exceeded and the part found homes for lots of uses. The gross sales of the company kind of gives that way. I would love to insect my build with one.

I do not have the change for :
TODA Racing Dry Sump Kit - Honda F20C / F22C

Part Number: TODA-11200-F20-000
$10,500.00
104612

K-series Dry-Sump Pump kit
Retail Price:
$6,189.00



104613


AT POWER K20/K24 INTEGRATED DRY SUMP SYSTEM
  • Regular price$6,399.00




The whole Accusump suggestion from me in the beginning was suggesting a decent part for the money that has helped racers for decades. At the moment am looking for suggestions on a baffle system for a Al K20A2 oil pan.

 

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I never did understand the need for a check valve on an accusump to stop it flowing backwards in the system. The oil pump is the check valve. Oil can't be pushed backwards through the oil pump so it can only push through the engine.

If anything the lack of check valve will help keep the oil pump purged of air while it's still active.
 

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accusumps were a factory fit on the Lotus 2-11 with its Toyota 2ZZ engine and many owners remove them and fit a Moroso or the like baffled sump. The Accusump systems tend to leak and have control valve issues.
 

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accusumps were a factory fit on the Lotus 2-11 with its Toyota 2ZZ engine and many owners remove them and fit a Moroso or the like baffled sump. The Accusump systems tend to leak and have control valve issues.
The t90 time of them is also too slow for some suction events.
 

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EJ6 K24 Ringtool
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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
* UPDATE *

Last week I managed to finish my oil pan and put it on the car, two days before booked Touristenfahrten on Hockenheimring on Saturday. :p I did 4 x 15 min rounds, 130 km on track. Great success, no more oil pressure drops. Also with blocked PCV, maybe 3-5 mm oil loss on dipstick, much less than first time with twice as much laps. Considering, that I have no idea, how many kilometers this engine has, I am happy with it.

I managed to do 2:07, where maybe 4 laps out of 23 were really clean without traffic, and my driving was still far from good. :p Record for FWD here is Megane R Trophy with 1:59.





 

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* UPDATE *

Last week I managed to finish my oil pan and put it on the car, two days before booked Touristenfahrten on Hockenheimring on Saturday. :p I did 4 x 15 min rounds, 130 km on track. Great success, no more oil pressure drops. Also with blocked PCV, maybe 3-5 mm oil loss on dipstick, much less than first time with twice as much laps. Considering, that I have no idea, how many kilometers this engine has, I am happy with it.
Glad to see the your DIY weld-in baffle is working like night n day over the Blox baffle.

I ran the blox style baffle way back in 2012 when it was originally sold by Blueprint Racing as a 'JUN k-series baffle', then blox knocked it off some years later. I rod knocked 2 f'ing K20 blocks with that got damn baffle (yes due to high lateral G left handers at the same track here in SoCal). Glad to see you're off of it. Trash that thing!

As far as overfilling oil, filling to the top dip stick dot is a rule of thumb for road racing (ie 6-quarts). It's key for me on my K20. I've gone more like 6.5qts but my motor spits out about .4 of the oil into my catch can so I just stick 6 to 6.1qts and check it after each sesh and top off.

I'm running a unit2fab steel pan at the moment but was previously on a Moroso pan (holds 8quarts of oil). Both pans hold oil pressures well for the tires I run on (NT01, RT660, and AR1 soon).
 
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