Just filled mine, same as yours.
used Mobil 1 filter for TSX, Mobil 1 10w-40, took just over 5 quarts
used Mobil 1 filter for TSX, Mobil 1 10w-40, took just over 5 quarts
Oil filter and oil type & capacity
1 - 20 of 60 Posts
The Oil flow flux of the K-series engine is quite low, today's engine work with 50-60 l/min at around 5000-6000 rpm, the K-series flows about 40,5 l/[email protected],000 rpm. That means at the intake side of the oil pump there is a velocity of around 1.12 m/[email protected],000 rpm. The important thing there is the viscosity, the oil level and oil availability.
At the outlet throat of the pump we see 40.5 m/[email protected],000 rpm, which is a huge velocity, creating quite some pressure drop around the corner. It is clear, we want to see oil flow at the engine on every tribological surface. Remember, the pump is a positive displacement pump, that mean any oil molecule the pump pushed at it's exit side will flow either into the bypass for supercharging or into the engine. There is no any flow loss other then the leakage of the pump, which causes efficiency losses. Gerotors are around at 80-98 % volumetric efficiency at the pump. It is clear, the higher the exit pressure, the higher the leakage flow flux, the lower the efficiency.
That means, there is no flow sudden flow decrease as long as the intake of the pump supplies oil. Therefore the most important thing on these pumps is keeping the balance of backflow and inflow at the right spot. Any change in that balance changes the mass flow to the engine. If we increase the relief pressure, we increase the mass flow to the engine and reduce the mass flow to the pump inlet.
The only thing worth a mod is when you run huge valve spring pressures in a daily driver and low quality cams like the 4Piston RR-series, which tend to wear in such applications, is a 5th tower rocker shaft oil supply to overcome the low oil availability during non-VTEC. That would supply more oil into the lobe-roller-tribologic. Also a higher content of ZDDP would stabilize that. But why the heck one should run a 1/4 mile developed stuff in a DD, only if none speak about it, isn't it 🧐! Those who bark loudest in the market to use their oil pumps, have the biggest issues with their parts, which are wrong applicated. We need always a verification of 1000 year old sayings to believe it
.
At the outlet throat of the pump we see 40.5 m/[email protected],000 rpm, which is a huge velocity, creating quite some pressure drop around the corner. It is clear, we want to see oil flow at the engine on every tribological surface. Remember, the pump is a positive displacement pump, that mean any oil molecule the pump pushed at it's exit side will flow either into the bypass for supercharging or into the engine. There is no any flow loss other then the leakage of the pump, which causes efficiency losses. Gerotors are around at 80-98 % volumetric efficiency at the pump. It is clear, the higher the exit pressure, the higher the leakage flow flux, the lower the efficiency.
That means, there is no flow sudden flow decrease as long as the intake of the pump supplies oil. Therefore the most important thing on these pumps is keeping the balance of backflow and inflow at the right spot. Any change in that balance changes the mass flow to the engine. If we increase the relief pressure, we increase the mass flow to the engine and reduce the mass flow to the pump inlet.
- What happens if we increase the relief spring pressure and port the outlet? We reduce the bypass flow significantly and work against the safety of the pump oil flow, while push more mass flow to the engine
- What happens if we only port the outlet? We reduce the bypass mass flow less then with the spring pressure thing
- What happens if we increase the viscosity? We increase the inlet flow pressure drop, increase the pump torque and shift the bypass flow to lower values. Safety goes down, oil flow to the engine is almost the same. Same is valid for a lower temperature
- the very first cams shown (casted materials, not hardened right) caused lobe wear and cam bearing wear, HyTech made a 5th tower mod who addressed the bearing side in 1st order and the lobe on the 2nd order. Joe McCarthy made a 5th tower mod which addressed the rocker shaft supply in almost the same as the bearing thing when he closed the 2nd tower rocker oil feed and added a VTEC valve free 5th tower rocker oil feed. Of course the 5th tower oil supply increased the bearing pressure too
- HyTech was in touch with the Gerotor designer of the K20 pump and had the efficiency data available. From that they defined safe engine speeds for the oil pump function, which was around 8800 rpm for the K20A2 oil pump (would be around 36.7 l/min). With that in mind that cavitation story was given to the scene, which is, like I mentioned above, an oil availability topic. That has nothing to do with implosions, what would be cavitation.
- If there was an issue with oil supply I know only acceleration forces related oil level issues, introducing baffled oil sumps for example.
- What is definitely an issue on every oiling system at high rotational systems is aeration of oil, as this reduce the flow flux suddenly if it comes up. Definitely an point to be addressed when thinking about a oil shaver plate to separate rotational oil droplet shooting from sump, also oil additives, which reduce that effect are helpfully
The only thing worth a mod is when you run huge valve spring pressures in a daily driver and low quality cams like the 4Piston RR-series, which tend to wear in such applications, is a 5th tower rocker shaft oil supply to overcome the low oil availability during non-VTEC. That would supply more oil into the lobe-roller-tribologic. Also a higher content of ZDDP would stabilize that. But why the heck one should run a 1/4 mile developed stuff in a DD, only if none speak about it, isn't it 🧐! Those who bark loudest in the market to use their oil pumps, have the biggest issues with their parts, which are wrong applicated. We need always a verification of 1000 year old sayings to believe it
.
Bruh in all that wheres your answer to both questions? 😂 just want to know what kind of oil jesus.The Oil flow flux of the K-series engine is quite low, today's engine work with 50-60 l/min at around 5000-6000 rpm, the K-series flows about 40,5 l/[email protected],000 rpm. That means at the intake side of the oil pump there is a velocity of around 1.12 m/[email protected],000 rpm. The important thing there is the viscosity, the oil level and oil availability.
At the outlet throat of the pump we see 40.5 m/[email protected],000 rpm, which is a huge velocity, creating quite some pressure drop around the corner. It is clear, we want to see oil flow at the engine on every tribological surface. Remember, the pump is a positive displacement pump, that mean any oil molecule the pump pushed at it's exit side will flow either into the bypass for supercharging or into the engine. There is no any flow loss other then the leakage of the pump, which causes efficiency losses. Gerotors are around at 80-98 % volumetric efficiency at the pump. It is clear, the higher the exit pressure, the higher the leakage flow flux, the lower the efficiency.
That means, there is no flow sudden flow decrease as long as the intake of the pump supplies oil. Therefore the most important thing on these pumps is keeping the balance of backflow and inflow at the right spot. Any change in that balance changes the mass flow to the engine. If we increase the relief pressure, we increase the mass flow to the engine and reduce the mass flow to the pump inlet.
So the question is why those ideas of modification came up?
- What happens if we increase the relief spring pressure and port the outlet? We reduce the bypass flow significantly and work against the safety of the pump oil flow, while push more mass flow to the engine
- What happens if we only port the outlet? We reduce the bypass mass flow less then with the spring pressure thing
- What happens if we increase the viscosity? We increase the inlet flow pressure drop, increase the pump torque and shift the bypass flow to lower values. Safety goes down, oil flow to the engine is almost the same. Same is valid for a lower temperature
For me, the efficiency of the pump is a point, which is there and cost torque (we speak of around maximum 2 hp total pump power demand 😎, thence don't come around saying power loss), which is not of the 1st interest, it is the safety of the oil flow. For that we need to balance the in- and outflow right. Assuming all the mods in market and the OE pump are all in the same ball park of safety, would there any difference in experienced safety? No! Do we have experienced any difference? No! So why the heck everyone is making business out of it?
- the very first cams shown (casted materials, not hardened right) caused lobe wear and cam bearing wear, HyTech made a 5th tower mod who addressed the bearing side in 1st order and the lobe on the 2nd order. Joe McCarthy made a 5th tower mod which addressed the rocker shaft supply in almost the same as the bearing thing when he closed the 2nd tower rocker oil feed and added a VTEC valve free 5th tower rocker oil feed. Of course the 5th tower oil supply increased the bearing pressure too
- HyTech was in touch with the Gerotor designer of the K20 pump and had the efficiency data available. From that they defined safe engine speeds for the oil pump function, which was around 8800 rpm for the K20A2 oil pump (would be around 36.7 l/min). With that in mind that cavitation story was given to the scene, which is, like I mentioned above, an oil availability topic. That has nothing to do with implosions, what would be cavitation.
- If there was an issue with oil supply I know only acceleration forces related oil level issues, introducing baffled oil sumps for example.
- What is definitely an issue on every oiling system at high rotational systems is aeration of oil, as this reduce the flow flux suddenly if it comes up. Definitely an point to be addressed when thinking about a oil shaver plate to separate rotational oil droplet shooting from sump, also oil additives, which reduce that effect are helpfully
The only thing worth a mod is when you run huge valve spring pressures in a daily driver and low quality cams like the 4Piston RR-series, which tend to wear in such applications, is a 5th tower rocker shaft oil supply to overcome the low oil availability during non-VTEC. That would supply more oil into the lobe-roller-tribologic. Also a higher content of ZDDP would stabilize that. But why the heck one should run a 1/4 mile developed stuff in a DD, only if none speak about it, isn't it 🧐! Those who bark loudest in the market to use their oil pumps, have the biggest issues with their parts, which are wrong applicated. We need always a verification of 1000 year old sayings to believe it
Just a kind of documentation
. Amsoil Signature Series 5W30, Ravenol RSP 5W30, Quarker State Full Synthetic 5W30.
Fantastic write up as usual @LotusElise. I will then ask you for your take and comparison between the following brands (these are what are most available to me) of 5w30:
the application will be a DD Turbo K24a4, stock oil pump, ACL +.001 oil clearance bearings. I've always used castrol due to my experience with them in euro cars, but if any of these other brands (or a difference weight) will be better up to the task then I will happily switch
I'm honestly suprised to see you advocating for QS oil in a race application; which line of QS FS oil are you refering to?
![Bottle Liquid Fluid Drink Bottle cap]()
![Bottle Drink Packaging and labeling Liquid Font]()
- Castrol Edge
- Mobil 1
- Valvoline FS
- Royal Purple
the application will be a DD Turbo K24a4, stock oil pump, ACL +.001 oil clearance bearings. I've always used castrol due to my experience with them in euro cars, but if any of these other brands (or a difference weight) will be better up to the task then I will happily switch
I'm honestly suprised to see you advocating for QS oil in a race application; which line of QS FS oil are you refering to?
I know some OEM's has it on their list, Castrol is deeply cross-linked in racing, but that doesn't mean nothing to me. My own experience with the Edge and wear is quite good reflected by this graph of a 4-ball-wear-protection testing result.
Beside that I know many BMW S54 engines having bearing wear issues under the OE released Castrol Edge 10W60 oil. Changing to the 0W40 Mobil1 FS improved the situation massively, maybe the "Extended Performance" has a different focus, definitely a different formulation compared to the FS.
The Royal Purple is out because of the low TBN number new, a race engine need a very high TBN to manage the oil oxidation, which happens very intense due to the higher temperature level in the engine and bigger blowby mass into the crankcase. There are RP oils with a higher TBN number, but I didn't test them because of a disappointing test result with Royal Purple 5W30 API SN.
this graph is a nice piece of data, but the only problem I see is that it is 10 years old, and oil formulas have likely changed in that time to comply with newer standards.![]()
as far as the oils on this chart go, castrol edge, mobil 1, and royal purple are the only ones available to me localy (that I'm aware of). speaking of royal purple, you mentioned the low TBN resulting in oxidation at higher temperatures. how much of a concern would this be on a street car doing either highway or traffic driving 90% of the time?
For me it is simple , never use motul, castrol, shell. Only use LM, Ravenol and Mobil 1 0-40 fs.
I don't have Amsoil,Royal Penzoil loacaly so I cant take them in consideration but they are good non the less.
So many engines get gunked up oil rings and go to waste because of use of gunk prone oils like this.
![Font Audio equipment Fashion accessory Brand Glass bottle]()
![Eye Human body Recipe Font Astronomical object]()
![Drinkware Liquid Product Barware Alcoholic beverage]()
![Fluid Automotive lighting Ingredient Recipe Drink]()
I don't have Amsoil,Royal Penzoil loacaly so I cant take them in consideration but they are good non the less.
So many engines get gunked up oil rings and go to waste because of use of gunk prone oils like this.
1 - 20 of 60 Posts
