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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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I would be interested to see what that looks like
Actually the processor of my calculation engine is occupied with some crazy 2-Liter engine stuff. While this check this out...

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This is a very simple setup with an 12.5:1 CR. Despite the air box it full fills the racing rules. I am not sure about the power offset in measurement, as this guy is a DC distributor. But from the torque graph, where normally beyond 7 krpm the line knocks down a bit more as usually is supplied by the different valve timing. According my simulations some head work would be necessary or it was used the RSP head at least.
 

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Would be difficult to argue that water is an additive as all of your intake air would have an amount of water in it anyway so you couldn't ban it, you also couldn't mandate a maximum humidity because ambient varies so much anyway.

You could ban it through limits on number of injectors or by not allowing any holes pre throttle body but I cant see anything in the rules that says that :).

You could also ask for clarity on what the additives means, I would say its something mixed into your fuel pre injection but they could have a different interpretation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Just had a conversation with the tech man. He said that setup would be illegal because it would be forcing an “additive” into the engine and would in his mind cross the line of being N/A. Was told that the rules for next season will allow cold air intakes. So that’s a plus atleast. Looks like it’s time to “cheat” up that head 🤣
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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I’m not opposed to doing some work in the head
...despite it has to have the OEM shape? Normally it is not necessary if you use the RSP head. These are from factory the best heads available in the K-series world. The JDM K20A has the same features as the EUDM K20Z4. Not sure what is more easy to get for you.

He said that setup would be illegal because it would be forcing an “additive” into the engine and would in his mind cross the line of being N/A. Was told that the rules for next season will allow cold air intakes.
Thanks for clarification. A CAI is a huge advantage. This opens all other playgrounds significantly to even more possibilities. So we have following on the list:
  • higher CR, 12.5:1 is recommendable for
  • TODA A3 or even DC Elite Endurance cams (later are more peaky)
  • 4-2-1 header (TODA is not the best for your application as it is a midrange emphasizer, but not bad) and 3" exhaust piping
  • RRC has a 64 mm DBW TB (J35 type), which is OEM and fits to the RRC bolt on-wise
  • as CAI is allowed I would put one on it which is directed to fresh air from of the front of the bumper if height allows it
  • a piggy pack ECU twister is duty, it should be allowed. If you go with the Z-style harness and ECU you have the better anti-knock-strategy on board as the fuel sensor of the manual TB-ECU
With that setup you will likely have around what I am stated above when tuned right. I've tuned many 2 Liter setups on more near OEM level which ranged into the 250 hp, where the stock injectors are at 100 % duty cycle in cold conditions. So 270 hp is at least on the table, without simulated it.
 

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2002 DC5 Type S
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The rules are saying you have to have a factory air box for the intake or can style. You should call the tech guy and get a image of the can style image they refer to. The air boxes can be modified internally by removing the ribs inside that disrupt flow around the filter. I will link the information to this thread.

I did not see anything about the filter having to be the exact oem filter. Mugen and Spoon sell filters that are times over the OEM filter.

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SPOON SPORTS AIR CLEANER INTAKE FILTER - DC5 EP3
SPOON SPORTS SKU: 103876 PN: 17220-DC5-010

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Synthetic rubber Tread



2002 Honda Integra Type R (Acura RSX Type S) factory air box modification

Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive design Hood Automotive exterior


Motor vehicle Automotive design Hood Automotive exterior Automotive tire




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In in this image you can see how the airbox was design from the factory. The lower hose is the air supply tube. This tube can be removed and a round 3"-4" supply duct can be installed to the front bumper or other type of air scoop. This will basically provide you a solid ram air set up that should be within the rules b/c you are using the air box to contain a filter like OEM.
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The air supply tube PN# (17228-PRB-A01) is the piece that connects to the throttle body is the same as the Honda Integra Type R (K20a) & Acura RSX Type S (K20a2). Again if rules allow the airbox, they may allow this silicone air supply tube is a better option because it is smooth on the inside unlike the OEM piece that has multiple ribs & lips that hurt air flow. The OEM piece is made like that to allow for engine movement and vibration b/c stock engine mounts allow the engine to move too much. There are extra HP to be gained using the smoother internal supply tube.

TEGIWA SILICONE INTAKE PIPE HONDA CIVIC EP3 INTEGRA DC5
SKU: K-INTAKE-PIPE
Manufacturer: Tegiwa

Font Auto part Plastic Electric blue Magenta


If you cannot make these simple altercations to the airbox, I would still want this because the factory air box has supply duct that at least routes air into the airbox that you can make a ram air duct or scoop to feed the airbox. The can can only be 8" long. The airbox will give you move TQ for pulling out of the turns down low to mid range. The airbox will also store a higher volume of air around the filter that will pressurize due to it's design. the better you can supply the air the better it works. As I was saying about the (PRC = Type R spec) and the (PRB = Type S spec) supply duct, there is a difference in the (PRC) it is larger, if the tech says this part has to be OEM as well.
17251-PRC-000
Add inquiry
TUBE A, AIR INTAKE1JPY 1,846USD 17.58
 

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2002 DC5 Type S
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I think the modifying the inside of the airbox is legal because you are not opening or changing the actual shape of the airbox. this mod is worth 2-5HP b/c you are allowing the air to swirl around the filter better without the ribs disrupting the action.

The airbox can be insulated on the outside to keep heat soak down. A thin SS plate could be attached to the left side and back side to reflect heat from the header.
 

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2002 DC5 Type S
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Since you are having the 5 angle valve job done the head will be off. Have the head milled to increase compression that way you can run a OEM head gasket for the best sealing. Since the head is off, cleaning it is huge. the exhaust ports right after the valves will have exhaust smut build up. A simple pick and light sanding can be done there to pick up more horsepower. you do not have to sand the exhaust port near the exit, the sanding near the valve will not be seen b/c of the ports shape even with a light. You will also gain better volumetric efficiency cleaning the exhaust port there. they will not see it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
I will check into it. When I copy and pasted the rules I left some things out because I wasn’t expecting such in depth help. The things I have learned up to this point should definitely help the engine push the limits of legal abs slightly past. I can wait to get this build started
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Since you are having the 5 angle valve job done the head will be off.
Is a valve job planned?

Personally I would leave the K20A or K20Z4 head completely stock as not many head porter understand to improve the port flow for more ponies all over the revving band. These ports use a fine surface casting method so that the ports look like smooth short before polished. These flow on intake about 310+ [email protected]" without any loss at 0.1-0.3". Cleaning them from carbon is an approach. Doing the maintenance for clearances (guides, sealings) is well fitting to this setup. I wouldn't touch the port or the valve seats.

Like @Them Witches said, intake box or if released a CAI is most important to make the biggest restriction open. K-series engines looooove better breathing.

I wasn’t expecting such in depth help.
This is just the best forum for K-series stuff, nothing less :p.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Just had another conversation with the tech guy. CAI will be legal. Just can’t drop below the crank. No funneling of air of any kind to intake. The factory air box would have to remain stock with no modifications if it were used
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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CAI will be legal. Just can’t drop below the crank. No funneling of air of any kind to intake.
If one can place it in a naturally feed cold air place beside the radiator, what a great option.
 

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2002 DC5 Type S
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If one can place it in a naturally feed cold air place beside the radiator, what a great option.
Yep right to a 3.5" velocity stack filter combo. Rules did not say anything about velocity stacks.

Wonder if her could get away with this $560 intake set up with a high flow ITG spun filter:

Tire Automotive tire Rectangle Rim Cylinder


JC60C (Large Cone) Size Options
Part No.A (ID) / B (OD)CDEFGBHP
JC60/80C80 / 8318055163218149450
JC60/86C86 / 8918053163216149480
JC60/93C93 / 9618050163213149500
JC60/99C99 /10218050163213149520
JC60/114C114 / 11718045163208149530
JC60/124C124 / 12718040163203149540

Rectangle Font Symmetry Diagram Parallel
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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...intake set up with a high flow ITG spun filter:
This filters should be used with care and consideration. In dusty tracks or environments I wouldn't use it as the filter efficiency for real dust particles. Test dust norms like the Arizona dust ARIZ-TD (ISO 12103-1) in A2 size will make this type of filter really looking bad. It can separate leaves and flies from air but not efficient enough in the area of around 100 µm and smaller. Using such a filter need a higher oil filter and oil change interval frequency to reduce the effect of wear, but it doesn't stop the wear like a Paper Filter does it.

Next point the filter area is pretty low, there is no area increase technology used like folding of filter material. This is only possible by the fact of it's low filter efficiency. For me those filters types are for applications having maintenance intervals of 50 h and less.
 

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2002 DC5 Type S
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This filters should be used with care and consideration. In dusty tracks or environments I wouldn't use it as the filter efficiency for real dust particles. Test dust norms like the Arizona dust ARIZ-TD (ISO 12103-1) in A2 size will make this type of filter really looking bad. It can separate leaves and flies from air but not efficient enough in the area of around 100 µm and smaller. Using such a filter need a higher oil filter and oil change interval frequency to reduce the effect of wear, but it doesn't stop the wear like a Paper Filter does it.

Next point the filter area is pretty low, there is no area increase technology used like folding of filter material. This is only possible by the fact of it's low filter efficiency. For me those filters types are for applications having maintenance intervals of 50 h and less.
indeed. I concur.

I want one for my little sreet demon
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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indeed. I concur....I want one for my little sreet demon
🤔...really?

Something adding to the OP's question, which may interesting too about the capability of the K-series.

Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line


These curves are from a 1D simulation of different 2000 ccm engine setup's for different applications I've done. Y-axis scale refers to flywheel. The blue-green-engine, called DAMPFHAMMER, was already on the dyno and made 206 ftlb'[email protected] rpm before the gearbox needle bearing cages melted because of lost gearbox oil. The red-black-engine is my actual development, called DAMPFHAMMER HD. Anyway, there is a potential for around 200 ftlb's at flywheel, not only for peak torque.

If you want to follow what's coming next you can follow my built thread: You want to win up to $50? The 86.5x86 rebuild question! | Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum
 

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2002 DC5 Type S
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🤔...really?

Something adding to the OP's question, which may interesting too about the capability of the K-series.

View attachment 105797

These curves are from a 1D simulation of different 2000 ccm engine setup's for different applications I've done. Y-axis scale refers to flywheel. The blue-green-engine, called DAMPFHAMMER, was already on the dyno and made 206 ftlb'[email protected] rpm before the gearbox needle bearing cages melted because of lost gearbox oil. The red-black-engine is my actual development, called DAMPFHAMMER HD. Anyway, there is a potential for around 200 ftlb's at flywheel, not only for peak torque.

If you want to follow what's coming next you can follow my built thread: You want to win up to $50? The 86.5x86 rebuild question! | Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum
Markus I want to follow the progress of both engines.

i want one for my street demon
 

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2002 DC5 Type S
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This filters should be used with care and consideration. In dusty tracks or environments I wouldn't use it as the filter efficiency for real dust particles. Test dust norms like the Arizona dust ARIZ-TD (ISO 12103-1) in A2 size will make this type of filter really looking bad. It can separate leaves and flies from air but not efficient enough in the area of around 100 µm and smaller. Using such a filter need a higher oil filter and oil change interval frequency to reduce the effect of wear, but it doesn't stop the wear like a Paper Filter does it.

Next point the filter area is pretty low, there is no area increase technology used like folding of filter material. This is only possible by the fact of it's low filter efficiency. For me those filters types are for applications having maintenance intervals of 50 h and less.
that makes sense the filters to not last more than 50h or so. it would be nice to see back to back dyno's of a standard fold type vs. these ITG "race" filters
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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i want one for my street demon
I have to collect the budget for one of these projects I am actually developing. Best would be I have one who sponsor this or buy it after tuning :D. I have no car to put it into it, just the engine test bench to tune it. The header concept is a totally no go for the Lotus Chassis. I have so much ideas for engines, but I run out of money to build it.
 

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I have to collect the budget for one of these projects I am actually developing. Best would be I have one who sponsor this or buy it after tuning :D. I have no car to put it into it, just the engine test bench to tune it. The header concept is a totally no go for the Lotus Chassis.
I have so much ideas for engines, but I run out of money to build it.
the pain is shared friend 😂
 
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