That track looks like 16-17 sec lap times for stock cars with V8's. Always turn 4 is the "walking" turn that is hardest on the suspension. I used to drive my old Honda on a track like that for fun.
This is a car a friend of mine built for the same class I’m running in
That is a very interesting application. If you need more torque for your engine, I have many approaches to do so in the field of an NA engine concept. What are the rules regarding the engine?Asphalt oval track. No dirt.
@LotusEliseI’m new to the forum so take it easy on me. I have done hours of searching and have not found what I’m looking for. I have a k20a2. I know I can easily make more torque by using a k24 bottom end unfortunately rules don’t allow it. I know bolting on I/H/E to help but with the rules I am very limited. I have not found a build that falls within the rules I’m allowed to run. I will post the rules below and hopefully with the vast knowledge on this forum you can point me in the right direction. I don’t have a HP goal I’m trying to reach. I just need usable power and torque on corner exit. Thanks in advance for the help.
*MUST BE STOCK OEM PRODUCTION. NO AFTERMARKET BLOCKS.
*EFI: BLOCK MUST MATCH DECLAIRED ENGINE MODEL
*NO BLOCK IS TO BE COATED, POLISHED, OR ANY MACHINE WORK EXCEPT WHAT IS LISTED HERE.
*NO MACHINING TO BLOCK FOR AFTERMARKET ROD CLEARANCE.
*BLOCKS CAN NOT BE OFFSET BORED BUT MAY BE SLEEVED WITH ORIGINAL BORE CENTERLINE.
*STOCK OEM TYPE ROD, CAMSHAFT, AND CRANKSHAFT BEARINGS.
*NO MAXIMUM OVERBORE.
*BLOCKS MAY BE DEBORED BUT CAN NOT WEIGH BELOW FACTORY LB/CC.
*AFTERMARKET PULLEYS AND WATERPUMP ALLOWED.
*CRANKCASE EVACUATION SYSTEM TO HEADER ALLOWED.
*AFTERMARKET OIL PAN ALLOWED.
*MUST BE STOCK OEM CAST OR STEEL, NO AFTERMARKET SUCH AS SCAT, LUNATI, ETC. ALLOWED.
*EFI: CRANKSHAFT MUST MATCH DECLAIRED ENGINE MODEL
*STOCK OEM STROKE OF CRANKSHAFT BEING USED MUST BE MAINTAINED WITHIN +/-.010 “
*NO LIGHTENING OR KNIFE EDGING OF THROWS OR COUNTERWEIGHTS.
*MAY POLISH BETWEEN #4 ROD JOURNAL AND #5 MAIN JOURNAL SURFACE AREAS FOR THE PUROSE OF IDENTIFYING. CRACKS MORE EASILY AND ELIMINATING SURFACE STRESS RISERS, NOT TO LIGHTEN.
*ENGINE BALANCING ALLOWED. MUST BE DONE IN STANDARD PRODUCTION MANNER.
*STUD GIRDLE KIT ALLOWED ON MAIN BEARINGS.
*CRANKSHAFTS MAY BE INTERCHANGED AMONG BLOCKS WITHIN THE SAME MAKE WITH NO MACHING NEEDED. DIRECT FIT APPLICATIONS ONLY ON CARBORATED ENGINES ONLY.
*CC MUST BE POSTED ON HOOD AND MUST BE CORRECT FOR YOUR BORE. ENGINES WILL BE P&G TESTED.
*ANY STEEL AFTERMARKET OR FACTORY ROD ALLOWED.
ALL EFI CARS; FACTORY LENGTH ROD
*MAY POLISH STOCK OEM RODS
*NO HOLLOW AFTERMARKET RODS
*TOYOTAS AND HONDAS MAY USE H-BEAM RODS IF NO BLOCK MACHING IS NEEDED
PISTONS AND RINGS:
*ANY FLAT TOP PISTON WITH ANY NUMBER OF RING GLANDS ALLOWED.
*MUST HAVE ZERO DECK HEIGHT
*GAS PORTING IN RING GLANDS ONLY.
*ANY STEEL WRISTPIN ALLOWED. NO TITANIUM PINS
*ANY OEM DOME PISTON ENGINE MAY RUN ANY DOME PISTON. THE FLAT PART OF THE DOME PISTON MAY EXTEND
0.010 “ABOVE DECK HEIGHT.
*ANY STYLE RINGS ALLOWED. MINIMUM 2 RINGS PER PISTON
BEARINGS, FASTENERS, AND GASKETS:
*ALL ENGINE BEARINGS MUST BE STOCK OEM TYPE SLEEVE BEARING. NO ROLLER BEARINGS ALLOWED.
*NO TITANIUM FASTENERS ALLOWED. ANY OTHER FASTENER ALLOWED.
*HEAD AND MAIN BEARING STUDS ALLOWED.
*ANY BRAND GASKETS ALLOWED. NO O-RING STYLE SEALING ALLOWED IN PLACE OF HEAD GASKET
*MUST BE STOCK OEM CASTING. NO AFTERMARKET HEADS ALLOWED
*EFI: HEAD MUST MATCH DECLAIRED ENGINE MODEL (HONDA B20 MAY RUN B18 HEAD AND FUEL SYSTEM AT 2300LBS.)
*ANGLE MILLING ALLOWED
*TWO VALVES PER CYLINDER MAXIMUM ON CARBORATED ENGINES
*STAINLESS STEEL OEM CONFIGURATION VALVES AND SWIRL TYPE ALLOWED
*VALVE STEMS MAY NOT BE SMALLER DIAMETER THAN STOCK FOR HEAD BEING USED WITHOUT WEIGHT PENALTY. IF VALVE STEMS ARE SMALLER THAN STOCK DIAMETER THEN COMPETITOR MUST DROP THEIR LEFT SIDE PERCENTAGE FROM 55% TO 53%
*NO TITANIUM VALVES UNLESS FACTORY REPLACEMENT
*VALVES MAY BE BACK CUT 30 DEGREES MAXIMUM
*VALVE STEMS MAY NOT BE CANTED IN HEAD
*NO INTERIOR DE-BURRING, POLISHING, EXTRUDE HONING, OR ACID PORTING ALLOWED.
*PORTS MUST BE STOCK AS CAST FROM OEM
*LIFTER BORE MAY BE MACHINED FOR SOLID ADJUSTERS
*VALVES MUST RETAIN STOCK DIAMETER HEAD
*ANY STEEL OR STAINLESS STEEL RETAINER/KEEPER/ SHIMS ALLOWED. ANY TYPE OF VALVE JOB ALLOWED. VALVE JOB ANGLES OPTIONAL.
*ANY VALVE SPRING COMINATION OR DESIGN
*REINFORCEMENT ON CAM BOSS ALLOWED
*LATE MODEL STOCK STYLE BOWL CUT ALLOWED. 1 ANGLE UNDER THE SEAT, 1 INCH MAXIMUM DEPTH OF CUT BUT DO NOT TOUCH THE VALVE GUIDE. CUT MUST BE INLINE WITH VALVE GUIDE AND MAY NOT BE HAND GROUND.
*NO BLENDING OF BOWL CUT TO PORTS OR ROUNDING EDGES THAT BOWL CUT CREATES.
*ANY AFTERMARKET HYDRAULIC OR SOLID CAM ALLOWED. CAM LIFT OPTIONAL WITHOUT ANY PENALTY.
*ADJUSTABLE CAM GEAR ALLOWED
*STOCK OEM STEEL OR DOUBLE ROLLER TIMING CHAIN AND GEARS WITH HEX ADJUSTMENT SLLOWED.
*ANTI PUMP UP HYDRAULIC LIFTERS ALLOWED
*NO LIGHTWEIGHT PUSHROD
*ONLY STOCK OEM ROCKER ARMS AND LIFTERS THAT WAS FACTORY OEM IN THE HEAD BEING USED
*OIL RETURN SCREENS ALLOWED
*LIFTER VALLEY BAFFLES ARE ALLOWED
*LIFTERS MUST BE STOCK SIZE FOR HEAD BEING USED
*ROLLER ROCKER ARMS ALLOWED ON GM ENGINES AND EFI MOTORS WITH FACTORY ROLLER ROCKERS.
*STOCK OEM FACTORY INTAKES WITH FACTORY PART NUMBER
*FUEL INJECTION INTAKE ALLOWED
*NO HIGH PERFORMANCE AFTERMARKET INTAKE MANIFOLDS
*NO PORTING, POLISHING, COATING, DIPPING, PORT MATCHING, ETC.
*INTAKE MAY ONLY BE MODIFIED TO ACCEPT CARBURETORS. NO OTHER MODIFICATIONS ALLOWED
*CARBURETOR ADAPTER PLATE MUST NOT PROTRUDE DOWN INTO PLENUM
*ALL PARTS MUST BE MASS PRODUCED ITEMS AVAILABLE AS STOCK PRODUCTION OVER THE COUNTER PARTS. NO SPECIAL TESTS OR MARINE TYPE PARTS.
*ONLY NORTH AMERICAN DISTRIBUTED INTAKES ON DOMESTIC. ASIAN ALLOWED ON JAPANESE MAKES ONLY
EFI FUEL SYSTEMS:
*ONLY ENGINES WITHOUT A CARBORATED OPTION MAY USE EFI SYSTEMS
*OEM THROTTLE BODY FOR DECLARED ENGINE MODEL
*NO MACHINING OR ALTERING OF THROTTLE BODY IN ANY WAY
*OEM UNALTERED FUEL RAIL FOR DECLAIRED ENGINE MODEL
*OEM UNALTERED SIZE FUEL INJECTORS FOR DECLAIRED ENGINE MODEL
EFI: STOCK UNALTERED AIR BOX OR CAN STYLE AIR FILTERS ALLOWED
*EFI: CAN STYLE AIR FILTER NO LARGER THAN 8” ROUND X 8” LONG
*EFI: CAN STYLE AIR FILTER MUST CONNECT TO THROTTLE BODY WITH SEALED DUCT NO LONGER THAN 8 INCHES. MAY NOT DROP BELOW THE CRANK BOLT.
FUEL & FUEL SYSTEM:
*TRACK FUEL OR PUMP GAS ALLOWED. MUST DECLAIR FUEL TYPE PRIOR TO QUALIFYING. NO E85
*NO FUEL COOLING DEVICES
*12 GALLON FUEL CELL MAXIMUM
*FUEL CELL MUST BE MOUNTED IN A CAN MADE OF AT LEAST 22 GUAGE STEEL
*FUEL CELL MUST BE MOUNTED IN CENTER OF TRUNK AREA BETWEEN THE FRAME RAILS. NO MORE THAN 2” DEVIATION FROM CENTER OF REAR OF TREADWIDTH.
*FUEL CELL MUST BE PROTECTED WITH A SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF STRUCTURE, INCLUDING A BAR BELOW AND TO THE REAR OF THE CAN.
*FUEL CELL VENTING HIGH AND TO THE DRIVERS SIDE RECCOMENDED
*MAY RUN HIGH PERFORMANCE MECHANICAL FUEL PUMP OR ELECTRIC. IF ELECTRIC PUMP IS USED, YOU MUST HAVE ROLL OVER VALVE AND SAFETY SWITCH. THIS MUST BE APPROVED BY TECH PERSON.
*FUEL WILL BE CHECKED RANDOMLY
*EFI CARS CAN RUN FACTORY FUEL TANK IN FACTORY LOCATION ONLY.
*BATTERY MUST BE SECURELY MOUNTED AND ENCLOSED TO GUARD THE DRIVER FROM SPILLS OR EXPLOSIONS
*BATTERIES MUST BE MOUNTED IN TRUNK OR THROUGH FLOORBOARD BUT NO LOWER THAN FRAME RAILS
*ONLY ONE BATTERY ALLOWED IN CAR
*ONLY 12 VOLT ELECTRICAL SYSTEM ALLOWED
STOCK TYPE COILS ONLY
*EFI: MUST RUN OEM IGNITION AND ELECTRICAL SYSTEM FOR DECLAIRED ENGINE MODEL (WIRE HARENESS, COIL PACKS, ECT.)
*EFI: OEM STYLE ECU FOR DECLAIRED ENGINE MODEL OR STAND UNITS ALLOWED. NO IN RACE ADJUSTABILITY BY DRIVER OF CREW.
*MSD, ACCELL, MALLORY, ETC. INTERNAL PARTS, COILS, OR MODULES ARE ALLOWED, STOCK TYPE ONLY
*NO MULTI SPARK DISCHARGE BOXES (MSD) ALLOWED
*POINTS TYPE ALLOWED
*NO FULL AFTERMARKET DISTRIBUTOR ALLOWED
*NO ADJUSTABLE TIMING CONTROLS
*NO TRACTION CONTROL DEVICES
*ALL WIRING IN CAR MUST BE SECURLY INSULATED AND FASTENED
*ANY SPARK PLUG WIRES ALLOWED
*ANY SPARK PLUGS ALLOWED
*NO DUAL POINT DISTRIBUTORS ALLOWED
*MELS DISTRIBUTORS ALLOWED
*MELS OR MSD TYPE REV LIMITERS ALLOWED (MUST BE MOUNTED IN PLAIN VIEW)
*ANY STOCK OR AFTERMARKET EXHAUST MANIFOLD OR HEADER ALLOWED
*4 INTO 1 AND TRI-Y STYLE ALLOWED
Yes the right gear ratio setup is the most important fact: easy to specify, easy to get on it, but it is the last step in the process as torque curve must be known as well as chassis air drag to calculate the demanded torque and engine speed to match the right gear ratio for the available torque bandwidth and height. With the stock IM the pillars for peak torque and peak engine speed are more or less fixed. So I assume project time is a good to know variable. What is your aim for this?
That sounds like perfect background. Let me work out a concept for this engine within a engine simulation approach, I will come back with the torque and power graph out of that based on measurements of most of the components. Normally the simulation is within 4 ftlb's on the first iteration for simple NA setups, so that will be a good start point to talk about.I want it to be right. I have been successful in the past with other cars
I was spot on with those lap times. Langley Speedway is close to me.. Buddy of mine ran a 18.2 lap in 2001 Integra Type R with a SC K20, we has been racing for over 30 years though.. he actually had someone in his way so he would have hit 17's17.702 took the pole here last race in the class I’m running. The late model stocks(V8) Josh Berry who drives for Dale Jr was on the pole with a 16.067
200ft-flbs at the flywheel good lord that is awesome. I need to have you design me an engine. Like I could afford it hahahaThat's a fair and a no-high-price competition basis . So the playground are: pistons, intake, header, exhaust, some areas of the head, intake manifold choice, camshafts, tuning. I am convinced this is at least enough to reach 280 hp/180 ftlb's at flywheel, so far I understand the rules.
you are welcome brother. I am here to help, KBuilt is another good one to talk with too.
It ex- or includes following:Can you use water injection? Water meth even? Cant see anything that expressively rules it out, you'd have to inject pre throttle body.
What is the meaning of no additives? Of the fuel or of the fuel-air-mixture? I see no localized injector position, but fuel spec. If you use water, it is no fuel, but added to the fresh mixture. According race guy reading, that mean water can be used as it is not explicit forbidden, but I would clarify it before.rule book said:*TRACK FUEL OR PUMP GAS ALLOWED. MUST DECLAIR FUEL TYPE PRIOR TO QUALIFYING. NO E85