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Discussion Starter #1
Never mind the likeliness, necessity, or practicality of actually mounting a K series engine; We know it has been done at least once [mentioned in Chadillac's Superlite thread]

So obviously it is possible but what kind of changes would need to happen to the lubrication system if any?

I'm looking toward you guru's to aid my mental masturbation here, there is a bigger idea but that is another thread in itself... think civette
 

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f20c sorry buddy
 

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yes I get that could use the F2Xc but that wasn't my question. I'm looking for intelligent response on the lubrication system of the K series
lets try to ignore my post count, I've been lurking for the better part of four years
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thats a valid point but I can't see myself ever needing a setup that... hardcore. spending on a dry sump system would negate the advantage of the K swap all together
 

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thats a valid point but I can't see myself ever needing a setup that... hardcore. spending on a dry sump system would negate the advantage of the K swap all together
Are you trying to use a Porsche style (don't know the manu of the above trans) transaxle because of weight distribution?
Just wondering why not install the K w/trans vs the long layout. I see no reason why a baffle would not work either way.
 

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Pretty much. Porsche transaxles seem to be the most feasible and inexpensive out-of-the-box setups, but I have a theory about mustang/camaro trans rigidly fixed to an IRS differential unit. I didn't want to get too far into all of the info I had prepared for this subject since it would take us way off topic for this sub-section of the forum.
There are a lot of really cool custom honda hot rods out there with crazy drivetrane setups but usually end up being a little too [compromising?] for my taste.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Think so? I was worried about the valve train being starved but I suppose it would be worth my time to take some measurements and misc info on various heads I have access to... eventually.
As far as application, I didn't really want to go there with this topic (ot), but I wouldn't be building this setup for a race only purpose car since what ever class I'd be in would include very fast kit cars; so I might as well build it street legal to cruise around and [local] show... more than anything, I just wanted to find out more about why it would or would not be possible for whoever hotrodder out there to do him/herself (a guy can dream right? :heart:)
 

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Other than a redesigned oil pan baffle, I dont see any reason why the Kseries couldnt be utilized in a north/south configuration.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Would be interesting to see the oiling system on the out-board K24
that is cool

http://www.auroramotorsports.us

Those guys run "norma sports racers" that are power by K20a motors.


AFAIK they drop them in and go. They purchase brand new motors through Norma in France and drop them in.

They ran the 25 hours this year as well as last.
interesting... I read they use dry sump setups. Thanks for showing me that, I had no idea that place existed and its only ~30 minutes away from my residence.
pretty impressive setups those cars
Engine:
Honda K20 Type R, 2 liter 4 cylinder, dry sumped, fuel injected, approx. 255 HP

Gearbox:
Sadev SL75 speed sequential, interchangeable gear ratios, neutral/reverse lockout, limited slip differential, fully stressed engine and gearbox

Chassis:
4130 Chromoly tubular steel frame. Bonded and riveted aluminum shear panels. FIA certified carbon-fiber crash box.

Suspension:
Front and rear double wishbone pushrod suspension with inboard double adjustable Oram dampers. Front and rear adjustable anti-roll bars.

Brakes:
AP Racing 4 piston calipers, 275mm vented/sloted rotors.

Body:
Wind tunnel and CFD simulation designed lightweight GRP removable body sections, gel coated color in white or black.

Wheels:
OZ racing centerlock, 13"x10.5" front and 13"x13" rear, Avon racing radial slick tyres.

Weight:
540kg (1190 lbs)

* NAMEC Enduro Series
* SCCA
* NASA
* Track Day
 

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...I have a theory about mustang/camaro trans rigidly fixed to an IRS differential unit.
Trouble is it'll never be truely rigid and you'll be breaking the short driveshaft and/or U-joints between the two. I know you don't want this thread jacked but doing what you suggest isn't going to work unless you have an very stiff - think casting - between the two.

I used an entire H22A1 drivetrain in the back of my tube-frame Mini and didn't have oiling issues. OTOH people who roadrace K-series engines have trouble on left turns because the oil runs up the timing chain area at the front of the crank. In your proposed application it means that under braking the oil pickup may become uncovered, especially if this is a car on slicks.

...There are a lot of really cool custom honda hot rods out there with crazy drivetrane setups but usually end up being a little too [compromising?] for my taste.
Yet you won't consider a drysump, which is no compromise. Are you building a real, true, actual race car or just an HPDE sort of thing. As was asked before, what are the rules for your race class? You have to be honest with yourself about your abilities and budget else this is just an excercise in bench racing, "If I had a lot of money I'd build a ..."
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Trouble is it'll never be truely rigid and you'll be breaking the short driveshaft and/or U-joints between the two. I know you don't want this thread jacked but doing what you suggest isn't going to work unless you have an very stiff - think casting - between the two.
I was thinking something to that effect but with modifying the original case but that whole section of the concept is a variable since Porche 944/928/924, mk5 passat, and c5-6 corvette transaxles [just to name a few] would work with much less modification.

I used an entire H22A1 drivetrain in the back of my tube-frame Mini and didn't have oiling issues. OTOH people who roadrace K-series engines have trouble on left turns because the oil runs up the timing chain area at the front of the crank. In your proposed application it means that under braking the oil pickup may become uncovered, especially if this is a car on slicks.
good info to consider, much appreciated.

Yet you won't consider a drysump, which is no compromise. Are you building a real, true, actual race car or just an HPDE sort of thing. As was asked before, what are the rules for your race class? You have to be honest with yourself about your abilities and budget else this is just an excercise in bench racing, "If I had a lot of money I'd build a ..."
The idea is that the K series engines offer a lot [durable, efficient, lots of potential, fit the general dimensions to a lot of applications] while available for less than a F2Xc that more abundant and affordable for aftermarket parts due to mass production and common/popular tuning... in the grand scheme of things, I would not be the only one to benefit from this if it is remotely feasible [any goon can design a cheaply producible bell housing/adapter kit].
Your right. I, at this point, am exercising mental masturbation since I'm not yet out of college [engineering graphics] and my mechanic's pay isn't worth boasting about...As I said before,
...I wouldn't be building this setup for a race only purpose car since what ever class I'd be in would include very fast kit cars; so I might as well build it street legal to cruise around and [local] show... more than anything, I just wanted to find out more about why it would or would not be possible for whoever hotrodder out there to do him/herself...
I don't want to sound defensive in this but with this section being "Advanced Engine Theory and Design," I didn't think the 'why' mattered as much as the 'how.'
 

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I don't want to sound defensive in this but with this section being "Advanced Engine Theory and Design," I didn't think the 'why' mattered as much as the 'how.'
A boxed/modified pan to hold extra capacity and maybe a modified pickup as well. Dry-sump would be the best, but I think if there are no space concerns the above will work good.
 

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http://www.auroramotorsports.us

Those guys run "norma sports racers" that are power by K20a motors.


AFAIK they drop them in and go. They purchase brand new motors through Norma in France and drop them in.

They ran the 25 hours this year as well as last.
It's called FIA Group CN or VDeV in France and it's a very popular class of racing in Europe and the UK.
http://www.speedracinguk.com/

The engines are supplied by Mugen Europe with some mods including a dry sump system. These cars can pull 2-2.5G so the stock oil system is useless. It also helps with the installation to the Hewland FTR transaxle that most manufacturers use.
 
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