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I purchased crower maxi-lites for a k24. They normally weigh in around 500g although I got the ams5844 bolts (280,000psi) which add almost 10g over std bolts. Carrillo makes a nice shelf rod as well. If money were no object I might go for some custom carrillo "gen4" rods. My application would be road race/endurance tho
 

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this thread is awesome :)
nice info guys
 

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Luke,
"Elightened trial and error" was the method used in the beginnings of the study of metallurgy because they really didn't know what the effects of adding a little of this element or that element would do to the microstucture of the basic material, and hence its physical properties in a real world environment. It was pretty much, "OK let's see if this works" and over a lot of decades there were enough 'happy accidents' that strides were made in the right direction. Once metallurgists had enough root knowledge gained from previous generations of study they became able to use "planning and flawless intellect" to correctly predict what the outcome of adding a particular element would be. Also their methods of testing matured to the point where they weren't just shooting in the dark anymore.
Its a shame but most of the big leaps in metallurgy have been driven by war and paranoia, and warplanes are a good example of what we're talking about here. First they were made of wood, then they were made of Aluminum because it was stronger, and these days they're made of Titanium and carbonfiber for the same reason.
Now if you prefer to keep yourself in the dark when an advancement in knowledge is presented to you on a platter, then so be it.
Hopefully there are others reading whose minds aren't so closed.
6spd_EK,
Good choice, you obviously did some research. Stronger bolts of the same diameter and length don't weigh any more than the weaker ones, so there must be something else happening if they're 10 g. heavier. For future reference keep in mind that Carrillo uses one piece forgings so the grain structure is all wrong in the cap. Cunningham uses 2 separate forgings so the grain structure is correct in both parts. And Cunningham rods cost less too.
 

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Luke,
"Elightened trial and error" was the method used in the beginnings of the study of metallurgy because they really didn't know what the effects of adding a little of this element or that element would do to the microstucture of the basic material, and hence its physical properties in a real world environment. It was pretty much, "OK let's see if this works" and over a lot of decades there were enough 'happy accidents' that strides were made in the right direction. Once metallurgists had enough root knowledge gained from previous generations of study they became able to use "planning and flawless intellect" to correctly predict what the outcome of adding a particular element would be. Also their methods of testing matured to the point where they weren't just shooting in the dark anymore.
Its a shame but most of the big leaps in metallurgy have been driven by war and paranoia, and warplanes are a good example of what we're talking about here. First they were made of wood, then they were made of Aluminum because it was stronger, and these days they're made of Titanium and carbonfiber for the same reason.
Now if you prefer to keep yourself in the dark when an advancement in knowledge is presented to you on a platter, then so be it.
Hopefully there are others reading whose minds aren't so closed.
6spd_EK,
Good choice, you obviously did some research. Stronger bolts of the same diameter and length don't weigh any more than the weaker ones, so there must be something else happening if they're 10 g. heavier. For future reference keep in mind that Carrillo uses one piece forgings so the grain structure is all wrong in the cap. Cunningham uses 2 separate forgings so the grain structure is correct in both parts. And Cunningham rods cost less too.

Couple of Questions:

- How many motors have you built so far, N/A or FI, with what WHP/Rev Limit and what usage?


- I own a set of Custom Carrillo rods, what makes you say Cunningham are cheaper than Carrilos? Because I know the cost of both for my build..... ( I know nothing about the forging process of either Carrillo or Cunningham).
 

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Just search around for posts by him. He has a lot of experience with engines in general, but he pioneered/prototyped a lot of things with the K-series prior to it being a popular engine. A lot of these products were reproduced by others (oil baffles, chain guides, manifold/TB adapters, custom rockers, custom VTC gears, etc).

He hasn't been around here much the last couple years. I don't blame him, his products and ideas tend to grow legs and go to China. Maybe he will share his manifold and header he has been developing. Would like to see some updates on that (and test results with other fuels).
 

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Mozz,
I started building engines about 2 human generations before the internet became a popular tool, so as K20EF8 says it'd take me quite a while to remember and list them all. I've even sworn off building racing engines a couple of times in my life, way too many 90 hour days involved in that, and the latest engine I've dedicated a lot of time to is the Honda K-series because with a couple of small exceptions its an extremely well designed production engine. It also fit very well into my Exige and Elise although I started putting B18's in them back in '97. I was actually the first person to import a JDM K20A Type R engine/trans into the USA, engine #39. So, do I know the K-series? You bet!
More importantly is the depth of knowledge I've been able to gain over such a long time, and along with that came a deeper perspective than I could have ever imagined.
Signalpuke,
OK, I'll take the bait...
I wasn't happy with the first manifold castings because the pattern maker didn't do a good job of replicating my prototype, so it didn't make quite as much HP on the dyno (lost 3 ponies on the 340 HP 2,188cc motor). All of that's been re-tooled now, at considerable expense, and I'm just waiting for the new cores to be made and the next batch of castings to be poured and heat treated. Then I have to machine them and re-dyno test, so it'll be a couple of months before the first one is released, and that'll be the 9.0 model. The 8.5 model will be next, and there will be more after that. Due to rip off concerns there won't be any pictures until the release.
Something interesting I found during manifold testing was that once the intake is really working right the header's significance fades to a large degree.
 

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very interesting topic
 

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Discussion Starter #35
great info on this thread but it would really be helpfull if someone gave some info on the weights on the rods itself.
 

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great info on this thread but it would really be helpfull if someone gave some info on the weights on the rods itself.
I can start a list for regular shelf rods... I have some weights written down somewhere. I will try to update this over the next couple days.

(a) = advertised weight
k20

589g OEM Honda/Acura (PRB)
490g BluePrint Pro-Series I-beam
445g BluePrint Ultralite I-beam
440g BluePrint H-beam (a)
495g Eagle H-beam (a) #CRS-5470K3D (ESP-H beam)
514g Brian Crower Sportsman H-beam (a)
415g Brian Crower Sportsman Lightweight H-beam (a)
555g Brian Crower I-beam
460g k1 H-beam (a)
450g k1 lightweight H-beam (a)
511g k1 turbo (a)
Manley H-beam #14014-4 (made by eagle) probably 460-495g
550g Manley Turbo Tough I-beam
Pauter #Hon-220-510-1389F
480g Carrillo Pro-A
501g Carrillo Pro-SA
526g Carrillo Pro-H
Crower Steel Billet B93738B-1
Crower Maxi-lite ML93738B-1
512g Cunningham (custom k20)
374g Cunningham (custom titanium k20)


k24

498g OEM Honda Accord (PPA)
617g OEM Acura 04-05 TSX (RBB)
600g OEM Acura 06+ TSX (RBB)
538g BluePrint Pro-Series I-beam
459g BluePrint Ultralite I-beam
BluePrint H-beam probably 525-535g
Eagle H-beam probably 525-535g
535g Brian Crower Sportsman H-beam (a)
422g Brian Crower Sportsman Lightweight H-beam (a)
Brian Crower I-beam
526g k1 H-beam (a)
454g k1 lightweight H-beam (a)
542g k1 turbo (a)
590g Manley Turbo Tough I-beam (a)
578g Pauter (courtsey of Bigworm) #Hon-220-510-1520F advertised at 585g


496g Carrillo Pro-A
538g Carrillo Pro-SA (courtsey of Blazed)


547g Carrillo Pro-H (a) with actual being 551g (courtsey of [email protected])


Crower Steel Billet

506g Crower Maxi-lite ML (courtsey of JDMEK4COUPE)


512g Crower Maxi-lite with upgraded AMS5844 Bolts (6spd_ek pic :p )


Rod Bolt Info
ARP 2000 rated at 220,000
ARP L19 rated at 265,000
ARP 3.5 (ams5844) rated at 280,000
ARP 625+ rated at 280,000

Crower 8740 rated 180,000psi
Crower H11 rated 220,000psi
Crower AMS5844 rated 280,000psi

Carrillo WMC (H11) rated at 220,000psi
Carrillo CARR (multiphase) rated at 285,000psi
 

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I think Manley k24 TT rods are 594g
 

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updated post (but not updated since signalpuke quoted me :p )

Joe, I posted pics of the maxi-lite spec cards with & without the upgraded bolts. It appears pin end diameters are different on the card, lol I think it may be a misprint on my card as a .8660" WPC treated CP wrist-pin fits fine

FYI here is what can happen when you combine mis-shift + long stroke + lightweight (china) rod = stretched arp bolt & kaboom


 
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