Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum banner

1 - 3 of 3 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
***This build thread has also been posted on nzhondas. I will update this thread with posts from there for completeness***

I've always wanted an EK Civic.

I've noticed they are migrating to the wreckers now and can be picked up pretty cheaply. However, keeping the D series was never an option. This Civic will be a daily and possibly will see a few track days in the future.
So checked out different options and the K series just made sense. They are also available at the wreckers and seem pretty upgrade friendly.

I guess this build is a budget build and will have a different vibe to others given its primarily going to be a daily. Wherever possible, it will be a drag and drop from a donor into the EK. This car wont be getting cams or a turbo (for now) so there's no reason to use aftermarket parts other than convenience. I don't want it to be using obviously aftermarket stuff from both a theft and financial perspective. I'm also trying to avoid using any type r parts where possible. They seem to attract silly pricing and I'm trying to keep the cost down.


The outcome of that means I will want to be using OEM parts wherever possible.


Things purchased so far:
- EK Civic
- CL9 (Honda Accord Euro) crash damaged Accord [I think these are called TSX in the US]
- Hasport EKK4 mount kit
- DC4 front subframe, power steering rack, tie rod ends and sway bar


EK Civic. I decided to purchase a running, registered vehicle and negotiate to use the de-registration refund as part of the purchase price of the car. At that time, I really needed a car running on its own steam to get it to where the swap will occur.


This need is specific to me. I've noticed that EKs do come up as shells with no motor or with engine/gearbox problems infrequently. This would have been a cheap way to get a clean shell as they are almost being given away when they are in this state.


Accord. The decision here was to purchase an engine and gearbox from a wreckers and hope for the best or to buy a complete car. I found self serve wreckers the cheapest but when I went the cars were pretty picked over and I wanted something more complete. The only real advantage of going to the wreckers would be to match up different things from different vehicles - civic gearbox, intermediate shaft, cable operated throttle body etc.
This is attractive given the civic gearing is better but I could only find one civic gearbox (non LSD, nothing special) and it was suspected to actually be what failed on the car.

I purchased an accord which has had minor crash damage to the front and rear of the car. The damage does not affect the engine bay other than a bent radiator and radiator support, neither of which I will use for the swap. The hardest thing will be working out what I can use beyond what people usually use for one of these swaps. I want to use the factory ECU, wiring harness and possibly more.

Hasport Ekk4 mounts. This allows me to get ideal engine positioning without axle, engine height, or radiator spacing comprimises. There are cheaper options but most revolve around using a civic gearbox - not accord. I decided to bite the bullet and buy the expensive option given I didnt want problems with this choice.

If civic gearboxes were more available, I would have used the steel innovative mounts option. Yes, heavier and less pretty, but should have worked ok and work out cheaper.

DC4 subframe. The mount set requires a DC or EG subframe given its thinner and doesnt require cut outs from the subframe. From what I could work out, the DC4 is the pov spec version of the DC integra and has a thinner sway bar than DC2R but is otherwise ok. DC4s are more common in Melbourne and the subframe can be picked up pretty cheaply.

Things I am debating:

- Fuel - The EK uses a return system, the CL9 supposedly uses a non return system. Most aftermarket solutions (minimum) use an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator, braided line and AN fittings to connect it together.
How does the CL9 normally regulate full pressure? I have read that there is a fuel pressure regulator together with the fuel pump in the tank. Is this true, and is there any reason I cannot use this?

- Throttle control - I've read the throttle management in the CL9 is fly by wire, meaning there is a sensor under the pedal in the car which is intrepreted and is used to electronically manage the throttle. Most swaps include replacing this with a cable operated throttle body.

If I keep the fly by wire, can I also keep cruise control? what other things should I be considering here - braking etc?
If this is really not possible, I don't want to use aftermarket throttle bodies. I have seen that earlier models of accord may fit and are cable operated instead.
If I change from fly by wire to cable, can the factory ECU be used? if not, can it be modified to be used with a new chip? or is it put the ECU in the bin and go Haltech?

- Axles, hubs and suspension - The setup options for this are starting to hurt my brain. The original plan was to use EG lowers on EK shocks with EK knuckles, k series civic intermediate shaft and presumably EK axles to bring it home.

But, I would like to be able to use five lug wheel options and have looked into swapping to five lug in the swap process as well. Honestly, I'm not sure if I'm just getting carried away but most of the threads discussing it state that if they had the choice, they would do it as part of the swap.

From looking around on the internet, the five lug knuckles from a CRV are the same part number as those on a DC2R. I know there are CRVs at the wreakers so this is a neat option. I also thought they are 36mm rather than Civic 32mm. Not sure of what intermediate shaft to use and err... at a bit of a loss here.

Whilst that kind of deals with the front end, I am at a loss of what to do with the rear. Most threads discussing the CRV knuckles discuss using DC2R rear everything. This will attract Type R tax.. open to suggestions here. I would really, really like to avoid using type r anything if possible.

I'm also debating coilovers, but thinking I will probably just go shocks/lowered springs for now. Given its being engineered I will need to make changes before engineering like coilovers but I need to figure of the other combinations above first.


- Brakes - It was a while ago now, but I came across a thread on the net about using a common caliper which happened to be the same as type r. I haven't looked to what the CL9 has but will be reusing them where possible.

If anyone could help me out with the fuel questions it would be awesome given it needs to go in before the engine on the firewall. Any other guidance, thoughts or suggestions are super welcome!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
[Post from DrunkenMistake on nzhondas]

Few big asks in there,

to start with if you use the factory cl9 ecu you’ll need to try find a bypass for the immobiliser not sure if they do one for the CL/TSX otherwise you’ll need to send it away to ktuner and get it done to be able to use it - only other alternative there is the change all the loom and ecu to a dc5 (maybe ep3 assuming they’re the same) and use kpro or an immobiliser by pass which are common for them.



Axles for budget building - DC5 Non type r/s 5 speed half shaft, if you’re keeping 32mm hubs use dc5 5 speed axles seem to be the perfect length and same splines,

If you’re using 36mm there are aftermarket axle brands or you can use the dc5 5 speed inners and shafts and put the 36mm outers on - you might be able to use the axles right out of the accord I’m not sure I never tested mine.



Coilovers > Springs and shocks might as well do it if you’re gonna cert it



Fly by wire I’ve read about people just changing to an aftermarket cable throttle not sure how this would relate to an oem ecu though - if it’s useable without chipping
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The immobilizer has been fun already. The key has been abused and the connection between the key and the plastic fob is smashed to bits. The buttons module and the little transponder? module in the key are accessible. I figured this out when I couldn't get it to start - only issue was holding the fob part close enough for it to register to it - started first time. It must be communicating with something on the ignition/steering column to require to be there exactly - maybe I should see if I can use the accord steering column too = use all accord instead?

Re half shafts - are there differences between manual and auto? would a k series civic one work?

Just not sure on coilovers. Seems like overkill for a daily and they usually come with springs harder then required, meaning more $$ to be spent again. I've done the shocks and lowering springs combo before and been pretty happy with it on a daily.. its when it gets used on the track the adjust-ability would add value.
 
1 - 3 of 3 Posts
Top