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Hi im new at this forum, my question is? is it possbile or reliable to build a k20z3 head and bottom with 12.2compression piston and Drag cartel 4.5 cams? im searching about the subject but ive only found k24bottom k20 head builds with this cams, thx in advance for any info. PD. i dont like k24bottom :p i want to build a pure k20 NA rawr power
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Hi im new at this forum, my question is? is it possbile or reliable to build a k20z3 head and bottom with 12.2compression piston and Drag cartel 4.5 cams? im searching about the subject but ive only found k24bottom k20 head builds with this cams, thx in advance for any info. PD. i dont like k24bottom i want to build a pure k20 NA rawr power
Hello bwgu89, welcome to the forum!

It's possible, but not recommendable, because peak power will be at very high engine speed likely beyond 9000 rpm by sacrifiying low and midrange power. These cams better fit to a 87x99 engine which is races for most time. What is your power goal and application as well as engine setup? I may can help you.
 

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Hello bwgu89, welcome to the forum!

It's possible, but not recommendable, because peak power will be at very high engine speed likely beyond 9000 rpm by sacrifiying low and midrange power. These cams better fit to a 87x99 engine which is races for most time. What is your power goal and application as well as engine setup? I may can help you.
first of all thx for replying, my goal is to build a race car for 1/4mile at the end doesnt matter the hp but being able to daily drive basically a sleeper :v
sacrifiying low and midrange power dont bother me as far as i can get good times at the track, currently im running CAI skunk2 , stock RBC manifold, Skunk2 alpha race headers, 3" inch exhaust custom pipe unrestricted, J37 Trottle body, ultra light weight flyweel 8.5lbs, light crank pulley, hondata flashpro custom tune, everything else is factory stock. as always thx in advance
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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...goal is to build a race car for 1/4mile at the end doesnt matter the hp but being able to daily drive basically a sleeper...sacrifiying low and midrange power dont bother me as far as i can get good times at the track
I would like to extract an engine torque which is emphasized at 6000-9000 rpm and redline at 10000 rpm.

currently im running CAI skunk2 , stock RBC manifold, Skunk2 alpha race headers, 3" inch exhaust custom pipe unrestricted, J37 Trottle body, ultra light weight flyweel 8.5lbs, light crank pulley, hondata flashpro custom tune, everything else is factory stock. as always thx in advance
With the actual induction setup: CAI, IM, it won't support the engine speed range as the RBC in stock condition won't support beyond 8000 rpm your aim, also the intake port won't support the valve timing beyond 8500 rpm your aim. Same for the header, the secondaries are too long to support the scavenging up to 9000 rpm. Actually this header supports around 8300, 7100 and 4700 rpm, which fits well to the RBC and a DD setup. Those cams you have suggested but will support torque up to 9000-9500 rpm and need a good port to get efficient there.

My recommendation for the existing parts would be a DC 3.2 camshaft set, if you like to go with DC. Clean the intake port of the head, cut the intake valve seats to 36 mm for a better valve-throat-ratio and scavenging efficiency, use valve springs for up to 9500 rpm, clean - if ITB's are no option - the RBC runners to at least corrected ID of 47.5 mm, widen the bell mouthes and limit engine speed to 9000 rpm. Take care, if you use the speed density-fuel calculation model with FPro, the lambda correction regarding IAT is not working. With the chooseable MAF model its better, but the precision in transient and higher engine speed is lacking a bit more then with speed density. FPro isn't the best for a race car, transient fueling is way too simple, ign. timing correction tables are also bit simple, fuel correction is in speed density pretty lacking at higher IAT when tuned at cooler ones.

If you want to do an engine setup for the DC 4.5, you need around 4000 USD more to upgrade the induction and exhaust to align with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I would like to extract an engine torque which is emphasized at 6000-9000 rpm and redline at 10000 rpm.

With the actual induction setup: CAI, IM, it won't support the engine speed range as the RBC in stock condition won't support beyond 8000 rpm your aim, also the intake port won't support the valve timing beyond 8500 rpm your aim. Same for the header, the secondaries are too long to support the scavenging up to 9000 rpm. Actually this header supports around 8300, 7100 and 4700 rpm, which fits well to the RBC and a DD setup. Those cams you have suggested but will support torque up to 9000-9500 rpm and need a good port to get efficient there.

My recommendation for the existing parts would be a DC 3.2 camshaft set, if you like to go with DC. Clean the intake port of the head, cut the intake valve seats to 36 mm for a better valve-throat-ratio and scavenging efficiency, use valve springs for up to 9500 rpm, clean - if ITB's are no option - the RBC runners to at least corrected ID of 47.5 mm, widen the bell mouthes and limit engine speed to 9000 rpm. Take care, if you use the speed density-fuel calculation model with FPro, the lambda correction regarding IAT is not working. With the chooseable MAF model its better, but the precision in transient and higher engine speed is lacking a bit more then with speed density. FPro isn't the best for a race car, transient fueling is way too simple, ign. timing correction tables are also bit simple, fuel correction is in speed density pretty lacking at higher IAT when tuned at cooler ones.

If you want to do an engine setup for the DC 4.5, you need around 4000 USD more to upgrade the induction and exhaust to align with it.
i appreciate your time explaining me all this men, i mentioned my current setup because u asked hehe but im not planning to stick with it and for a last effort could u tell me exactly what do i need to build a DC 4.5 Setup with pump gas? btw im using MAF sensor for the tune, thx in advance for your knowledge and ur time
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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What would your recommendations be?
Ok, so let's see what we need:
  1. 2000 USD - IM need to be adapted to the peak power goal of 9000 rpm in length and ID. This can be done most easily with an set of ITB's which has adapted lengthes of bell mouthes and a ready to go ID. This would be roughly 250 mm in length and an ID of 54-56 mm.
  2. 1000 USD - The head must have an adapted intake port, to accomodate the higher flow on higher engine speeds. About 350 [email protected]" lift and not below 90 [email protected]" valve lift. The valve seat need most of the attention, port it self just some corrections. A bigger valve to give a better venturi at low lift would help the scavenging, a sligthly bigger valve-throat-ratio would help at the top end to.
  3. 500 USD - The header of bwgu1989 would be ok as a basis, but the secondaries need to be to an total length of 910 mm at the crossing point of the pipe symmetry line of the secondaries. This is needed to shift the supporting resonances to around 9000 rpm
  4. 700 USD - The static CR need to be increased according fuel: E85 = 13.0:1, Pump 93 octane = 12.5:1 to 12.8:1
I assume this, when done right, should support to easily to 260 whp, talking about FWD. The engine will likely like more engine speed, maybe 9500 rpm, but I would limit it 9500 rpm for safety reasons. Keep in mind, this is a narrow band engine, this is not the best DD or AutoX engine. VTEC will be late, I assume around 6000-6500 rpm, so powering will start from there till redline. At low speed cam you shouldn't expect much of it. Combustion will suck because of the huge ports killing some of the impuls of the air compared to an stock port. This is just a narrow band race setup, which I actually don't like (easy to build, no wide-high torque band, high speed use only) but you guys may find funny and helpfully.

Prices are just indicators. I am no dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok, so let's see what we need:
  1. 2000 USD - IM need to be adapted to the peak power goal of 9000 rpm in length and ID. This can be done most easily with an set of ITB's which has adapted lengthes of bell mouthes and a ready to go ID. This would be roughly 250 mm in length and an ID of 54-56 mm.
  2. 1000 USD - The head must have an adapted intake port, to accomodate the higher flow on higher engine speeds. About 350 [email protected]" lift and not below 90 [email protected]" valve lift. The valve seat need most of the attention, port it self just some corrections. A bigger valve to give a better venturi at low lift would help the scavenging, a sligthly bigger valve-throat-ratio would help at the top end to.
  3. 500 USD - The header of bwgu1989 would be ok as a basis, but the secondaries need to be to an total length of 910 mm at the crossing point of the pipe symmetry line of the secondaries. This is needed to shift the supporting resonances to around 9000 rpm
  4. 700 USD - The static CR need to be increased according fuel: E85 = 13.0:1, Pump 93 octane = 12.5:1 to 12.8:1
I assume this, when done right, should support to easily to 260 whp, talking about FWD. The engine will likely like more engine speed, maybe 9500 rpm, but I would limit it 9500 rpm for safety reasons. Keep in mind, this is a narrow band engine, this is not the best DD or AutoX engine. VTEC will be late, I assume around 6000-6500 rpm, so powering will start from there till redline. At low speed cam you shouldn't expect much of it. Combustion will suck because of the huge ports killing some of the impuls of the air compared to an stock port. This is just a narrow band race setup, which I actually don't like (easy to build, no wide-high torque band, high speed use only) but you guys may find funny and helpfully.

Prices are just indicators. I am no dealer.
thx man for the info, can i use a ported skunk 2 ultra street with spacers instead of the ITBs?
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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thx man for the info, can i use a ported skunk 2 ultra street with spacers instead of the ITBs?
Sure, but that would mean a bunch of ponies less. ID would be maybe ok, but length is way too short to be optimal. This is a complete clearance driven design, like the almost all aftermarket IM's. It's even too short to be a 3rd order harmonic resonancer...
 
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