Money making ...come on, the absorbed heat of the intake from the engine is in the lower Watt region, the air velocity is at WOT about 10-40 m/s. This means, to heat the incoming air by 1 °C through engine heat radiation you need something in the low kW region (e.g. 30 m/s, 70 mm pipe, 0.19 kW)...that's a marketing gag, nothing more!whats the gold wrap stuff?
Ok ...Don't drag math, facts, and data into a conversation involving belief and opinion, you'll lose everytime!
I think kb58 was being facetious.Ok ...
... it's 0.190 kW/°C for intake air heat up and about 0.007 kW at a viewing factor of the pipe-engine situation of 1 (LOL, Baehr's book formula gives one 0.13) via radiation...to loose measureable VE you need at least 2 °C of warmer air, for a ignition retard due to knock about the same if you have tuned it on the edge.
So, where are those 2 °C increase? Again, feel free to prove me wrong...if you have a measurement based validation, post it. If you have a calculation, post it. As you said, you have nothing to loose, me too, as I love to learn.
Thanks man, very honest from you to spell it out for me and a nice word to know 'facetious'. I read it once more and yes, you are right. Could be read that mathematic and facts could contratict beliefs and opinions, but if believes and opinions has no room for the first it will be wasting of time to convince those with the first both .I think kb58 was being facetious.
Not really kb58...didn't you know to be provicative is in the terms of philsophical doctrine of the Cynics just another way to recognitional...that would be being a smart ass saying ...but it happens (the recognitional, see above) sometimes exactly that waySorry, yeah I was... another term would be "smart ass"...
I partly agree with this...if there is a MAP drop at WOT that simply reveals a restriction to flow somewhere in the intake between the filter (or velocity stack) and plenum. Yes...it could be the throttle body, but the restriction could also be due to the intake tubing.
The MAP is simply measuring the pressure gradient across the entire length of the intake. Pressure (gradient) = flow (air) x resistance (of the intake).
Resistance is influenced by the LENGTH of the intake tubing as well as the cross sectional AREA of the intake tubing and throttle body. So, if there is a drop in MAP at WOT you cannot simply say it's the throttle body without entertaining the possibility that the intake is the actual restriction (unless you also simultaneously know the pressure just proximal to the throttle body).
The restriction is likely through air filter. In general 4 kPa is pretty much. Of course a bigger TB would help to increase MAP, but my guess is 30-40 mbar would be only possible if the transition is like a sharp corner from intake pipe to TB is done....map pressure on k20a type r with rbc intake and stock throttle body with aem short ram air intake with 76mm tubing is 95kpa right before rev limiter. and the mid range map pressure is 99kpa. Do you think that I have a restriction at intake tube or throttle body ?
No, not really. The MAP is created by the air pressure outside. The intake system reduces it by some restrictions like diameter offset's, lengths and so on. Even if the exhaust system works badly, the down running piston just suck air, but it doesn't add air. It's like the cylinder takes some volume out of the air outside and by flowing air through the intake system it adds it again. If the engine don't run MAP = pressure outside, that's the maximum you can reach in stationary view....And does exhaust system effect map pressure also? I mean may be because of insufficient exhaust system engine can not breath more air and map presurre drop at high revs?
I do not think the throttlebody is the major bottleneck in all of those scenarios. If your motor needs an 80 mm throttlebody, then the stock intake manifold and stock cams are going to be a bigger bottle neck. IMHOi know this a littel off but how do u think 80mm tb would work on rrc intake???
Stock 62mm vs Blox 72mm vs ktuned 80mm on rrc mafold on a k20a2 with stock cams or even z1 cams, rdx 410cc an 3" exhaust????
Yuup :up:I do not think the throttlebody is the major bottleneck in all of those scenarios. If your motor needs an 80 mm throttlebody, then the stock intake manifold and stock cams are going to be a bigger bottle neck. IMHO
Beside that the misalignment of the flow due to the thickness of the gasket - it's wall has no 15° angle like the port has - flow is always off an alignment. Beside that there is still no evidence those insulation gaskets can improve knock margin distance or increase the density on WOT. My calculation of an inflow process shows for the ideal case of the IM has the same temperature as the air, the difference in density to the stock gasket is lower than 1 °C. This means, this would be no measurable effect on knock margin at WOT. On part load the story is different as the air take more time to heat up by the lower velocity there. Did you see an advantage which can confute my calculation?...The ports simply do not always line up. Cylinder #1 being worst, cylinder #2 - #4 get progressively better.
i was planning on cutting a matching angle on the thermal IMG to the port.Beside that the misalignment of the flow due to the thickness of the gasket - it's wall has no 15° angle like the port has - flow is always off an alignment. Beside that there is still no evidence those insulation gaskets can improve knock margin distance or increase the density on WOT. My calculation of an inflow process shows for the ideal case of the IM has the same temperature as the air, the difference in density to the stock gasket is lower than 1 °C. This means, this would be no measurable effect on knock margin at WOT. On part load the story is different as the air take more time to heat up by the lower velocity there. Did you see an advantage which can confute my calculation?
Regarding the TB diameter, it depends on your engine setup. I didn't see any advantage of going over 72 mm of ID with an RRC on a bolts on engine. As long as the parts down the road can't flow more air, it is just a disadvantage in terms of load control of the engine for the user. Huge throttle bodies make the load coming bouncy of the seat. My 74 mm ID TB produces 90 % of WOT MAP at around 20 % opening. For a race car this might be ok if you don't corner like Schuhmacher, he uses a very smooth control to keep the chassis slightly oversteering. For a DD this is not something you can call comfortable and precisely controllable.
Maybe we have a different understanding regarding the misalignment regarding an IM gasket. Could you draw a picture of it what you mean please?the misalignment I was referring to was the actual intake ports. they dont even come close to lining up to the cnc gasket. Some heads must not be equal. I know when I put the oem IM gasket the ports are still off horribly unlike my current PRB head I am using now on my engine.