K20-EG understeer?

4153 Views 35 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Lynch, May 24, 2008

katman

Discussion Starter · May 13, 2005

For those of you that road race and have K20 EG's, have you noticed severe plowing problems when going through turns? I did. I noticed I have way more understeer than compared to when my B-series engine was in.

I attended the recent Redline Event open track day this past mother's day at Buttonwillow. First time I've been to the track since the K install. I spent most of my time trying to get my suspension to feel right. Currently running ITR fr/rr sway bars and TEIN RS sus. It didn't dawn on me to try and unhook the front ITR swaybar to see how that would handle. The rear end wouldn't rotate like I wanted it to almost not matter what configuration I setup the front or rear. I had excessive plowage when hitting turns, not to mention traction problems..haha from the K torque ouput which was rather neato.

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this and for any suggestions...

21 - 36 of 36 Posts

Karcepts

· #21 · May 20, 2005

I personally have been fighting an oversteering k20eg on the autox tracks. No front bar and too big of a rear one seems to be my problem. I obviously have tons of off power steering, but even on power, I have yet to plow through a corner.

jon v

· #22 · May 20, 2005

K2e2vin said:
You can search around on H-T(Honda-Tech.com), or go to their webpage for more info(i dont think the site really gets updated though): http://www.a-spec-racing.com

It's 3 wat adjustable. It has 3 holes in the arms that attachs the bar and the endlinks...

mine is set in the middle, and in that pic my other tire is on the ground, just the uneven surface of the driveway is enough to have the bar hold that tire off teh ground...

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DamonRSX

· #23 · May 20, 2005

That looks very similar to my Comptech rear sway, 23mm iirc. I didn't mind paying so much for such an improvement in the balance of the car. I have a 2000 HX trim, which came with a front, still there stock bushings and all, but no rear sway.

I can't comment too much on the change in balance just going from D to K, but it does seem that the mounts themselves stiffen the chassis a little. I do have a little more understeer than before, stiffening the rear dampers seemed to get it back to where I like it. I also don't have power steering just yet, so I can't quite whip the car around like I used to, at slow speeds anyway. I like the steering feel without power after 15 MPH or so.

litterbox

· #24 · Jun 23, 2005

For my track setup I'll be running a jdm itr (23mm I think) front bar and m00gen 26mm rear sway bar with that asr brace to keep the subframe intact. This is on an eh2. Any forseeable problems?

katman

Discussion Starter · #25 · Jun 23, 2005

litterbox said:
For my track setup I'll be running a jdm itr (23mm I think) front bar and m00gen 26mm rear sway bar with that asr brace to keep the subframe intact. This is on an eh2. Any forseeable problems?

That's almost the same setup I'm running (GSR/ITR front bar / ITR rear bar)...you might run into the same understeering/plowing issues. JDM ITR fr sway bar is 24mm btw.

litterbox

· #26 · Jun 23, 2005

Katman, what coilovers do you use? koni/gc. I'm looking into a setup. Any suggestions?

katman

Discussion Starter · #27 · Jun 23, 2005

litterbox said:
Katman, what coilovers do you use? koni/gc. I'm looking into a setup. Any suggestions?

I'm runnin TEIN RS w/12kg front springs /10kg rears

Koni/GC are a cheaper alternative that seem to work fine; otherwise I'd suggest a full coilover setup such as Tein's..

litterbox

· #28 · Jun 23, 2005

What other full coilover setups would you suggest? I'm asking on ht as well but haven't got any suggestions on setups to look into, just people telling me I'm a n00b and what I should do with my car.

jon v

· #29 · Jun 23, 2005

katman said:
That's almost the same setup I'm running (GSR/ITR front bar / ITR rear bar)...you might run into the same understeering/plowing issues. JDM ITR fr sway bar is 24mm btw.

Why do you guys all run front sways? i never had one on my car and I was really happy with the rotaion that i get with my big rear bar. i felt like I would have changed the handling to much if I added the front bar. Now after getting on the track a few times and doing some other spirited driving I am happy I didn't put my front SI bar that i had on.

what is the common change in handling when adding a front sway?

The only other experience I have with front sway bars is when I used to have my EG with coilovers and struts and Suspension techniques front and rear sways. this was befor I really knew what i was doing and I am not even sure how big or small these sway bars were but they weren't designed all that well. i was also still running the OEM rims with some semi sport tires, i ended up spinning that car off a canyon road near my house on my way to work at midnight one night... I kinda noticed that with the front sway once you start to lose it it is already gone, where as with no front on my new car I have been able to save myself from a few spins on the track and on teh street...

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jon v

· #30 · Jun 23, 2005

I am also running the Omni Power full coilovers on my current EK. I have the race version with the 12k 10k rates and I actually don't have anything bad to say about them. they are stiff but thats what i wanted, they are a little much for the average Joe and his average street car but anyone with a K in there street car shouldn't be your average Joe. They are well worth the price although definetly not the best thing on the market.

for a height adjustable non-dampening adjustable full bodies threaded coilover they get tow thumbs up from me...

katman

Discussion Starter · #31 · May 18, 2008

haha BFtD!

I never mentioned what I did to fix my understeering/oversteer issue.

I simply softened my dampening and that by itself fix my problem. Night'n'day difference.

Also running on Toyo RA1's which was another night n' day difference and speaking of, did I mention I ran a 2:05.5 at the Dec. 2006 SuperStreet Buttonwillow Time Attack and got 4th place in FF Limited?

Personal fastest time yet. :silly:

I'm currently in the process of jumping off the Tein Trein and gettin on the Koni/GC train. I heard so many good things about the Koni/GC sus setup from fellow road racers I couldn't resist anymore. Picked up a used set of koni 8041-race shocks w/750lbs fr / 550 rr. Hoping i can make the May 31 Speedventures track day and break my personal record. :dance:

Also did some suspension bushing upgrades.

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Lynch

· #32 · May 18, 2008

ok thead jacking here, but why do all you guys seem to be running harder on the front than the rear,

correct me if im worng, but i was under the impression you want a harder spring on the back for the eg to induce that rotational moment at lift off and eliminate understeer.

im currently polybushing all my suspension, and have leda dampers with cucso 400lb rear 350lb fronts, or thats how i was gonna set them up, but am i right to set it up like this??

any help appreciated for the unenlightened

YashiMotors

· #33 · May 18, 2008

I have driven my EG6 now 3 years with B18C and now i run with K20A2, both with LSD, the weight ballance have not changed in any way.
But like the other people said, It's about balancing your trottle cuz the K20A2 have much more low end torque.
I run on ITR 22mm swaybar and JDM SiRII front. -3deegres negative camber in the rear and -2.8 in the front. 0.0 toe front and around 1mm toe in per side in the rear. Around 5 degrees caster I belive. Run on Toyo R888 205/50/15.
If you have to much camber in the rear compered to the front, than the car will understeer.

But the chassi setting is an individual thing and how much understeer/oversteer you need is depend on the track. On autocross I usually take away my rear swaybar cuz the rear will oversteere to much. On fast tracks the opposite.

Heres a old video on my car with my old B18C&S80 setup on autocross.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0lKyBbSdfXA

EconoBox

· #34 · May 21, 2008

did anyone mention TIRE PRESSURE? If you the rear at lower setting than the front you can induce more oversteer.

DamonRSX

· #35 · May 21, 2008

Lynch said:
ok thead jacking here, but why do all you guys seem to be running harder on the front than the rear,

correct me if im worng, but i was under the impression you want a harder spring on the back for the eg to induce that rotational moment at lift off and eliminate understeer.

im currently polybushing all my suspension, and have leda dampers with cucso 400lb rear 350lb fronts, or thats how i was gonna set them up, but am i right to set it up like this??

any help appreciated for the unenlightened

It all depends on what sway bars you are using...that setup would be better for a stock setup, with smaller sway bars or maybe none at all on the rear. I have an EK with 800 lbs front and 400 lbs rear with a stock front sway and a big comptech rear sway, and it is very well balanced.

Lynch

· #36 · May 24, 2008

well, im just gonna be running standard eg5(which i think is the same as eg6) sway bars, so yeah, stock.

thanks.

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