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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello K-community. Got a interesting build here for everyone with quite a bit of questions for you K-gurus.

First off, let me explain a little about my build. I am one of the few K-1 builders left out there in the USA. I purchased my kit through K-1 directly right before the kits stopped being sold. At the time, we were planning on doing a turbo charged H22. We had the engine, trans and many other miscellaneous parts. The build went on hold for quite some time as I got hit pretty hard when the economy went to shit and when I returned back to the table to begin construction I decided to swap power plants and opted for the K24/K20 Frank.

For those of you unfamiliar with my car, it is a custom built 2 seater roadster powered by the Honda F/H series engines. The engine bay is a tubular steel mock up of the CB7 (1990-1993) Honda Accord. It was intended to use the F/H engines for a simple (far from simple in practice) bolt up and go vehicle build. I was not impressed with the power and performance of the original design so am upgrading almost every system on the vehicle (brakes suspension, power plant, etc.) So for build purposes of my K-swap, consider me as having a CB7 chassis. To put the build into theory, the idea was to simply take the front clip of the accord and move it to the rear of this car. This means all suspension, brakes, axles, engine and everything else is now moved to the rear of the vehicle.

So one more time, as I build I have to maintain the mindset that I am a CB7.

As far as the engine goes, I am wanting between 250-300 WHP. This vehicle will NOT be used as a Daily Driver. It will be driven on occasion for pleasure and taken to shows. I MIGHT put it on the track once, but thats it. Here is what I have come up with from research:

K24A1 - I plan to use the A1 because I plan on fully building the engine from the ground up. From what I have read, the only real perk of going with the A2 is if I plan on keeping it in stock form, utilizing the beffier TSX rods and higher compression pistons. Since I am going to scrap the rods and pistons for aftermarket parts, I feel the A1 block will better suit me from a cost perspective. Also, I have read that the K20 Oil pump will bolt right up which is a big plus. I have sourced a few of these engines from my buddy's junkyard. I can pick up the full engine, minus trans, for about $4-500.

As for the head, I am a bit unsure on which direction to go at the moment. Considering my power goals, I would believe I would need some headwork. If the better flowing head is more expensive and differs because of valvetrain components, then going with the inferior head would be more cost effective for me.

For the transmission, we will of course be utilizing the 6 speed manually trans. I would ideally like to pick up the Civic Si with LSD, but if if I get a good deal on a TSX/RSX-S trans, I will take it.

As far as what internals for the block and head I plan on using, I have not come up with that yet. Since this is essentially the beginning of the build, I am focusing more on acquiring the base engine for test fitment into the bay. Once we are able to successfully install the engine into the car, it will be pulled, dismantled and built back up properly.

With all that said, I would appreciate some feedback for the current route I am heading as well as any other factors to consider before I pick up the engines.

I will load some pictures when I get back in the shop. Probably tomorrow. Thanks all!
 

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I remember wanting to buy one of these many moons ago but always heard of clients with issues of missing parts. If your going to build the motor then yes the k24a1 or a4 will be ideal to keep cost down. The only issue with the a4 is that the k20a2 pump doesn't bolt up with out cutting a piece of the pump off, not a big deal did it myself rather simple. My particular engine is a k24a4 from a 04 accord with a k20a2 head with only minor port matching and a RSP intake manifold from a civic type r . At the dyno ended up making 286whp and 211lbs of torque. My engine is compromised of wiseco 13.7:1 pistons , 88mm bore, stock k24 crank, drag cartel stg 4 cams, asp custom header, 900cc fic injectors and e85.With a better manifold and flowing head the car should easily make 300whp just to give an idea of what parts can help you achieve your hp goal. I believe hasport makes the mounts to drop the k20/k24 into the accord which is the mounting the k1-attack uses. You may also be able to get a conversion wiring kit for the accord making the swap easier. Have you assembled the car yet is it ready for the swap? Post pics would love to see this get built.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I remember wanting to buy one of these many moons ago but always heard of clients with issues of missing parts. If your going to build the motor then yes the k24a1 or a4 will be ideal to keep cost down. The only issue with the a4 is that the k20a2 pump doesn't bolt up with out cutting a piece of the pump off, not a big deal did it myself rather simple. My particular engine is a k24a4 from a 04 accord with a k20a2 head with only minor port matching and a RSP intake manifold from a civic type r . At the dyno ended up making 286whp and 211lbs of torque. My engine is compromised of wiseco 13.7:1 pistons , 88mm bore, stock k24 crank, drag cartel stg 4 cams, asp custom header, 900cc fic injectors and e85.With a better manifold and flowing head the car should easily make 300whp just to give an idea of what parts can help you achieve your hp goal. I believe hasport makes the mounts to drop the k20/k24 into the accord which is the mounting the k1-attack uses. You may also be able to get a conversion wiring kit for the accord making the swap easier. Have you assembled the car yet is it ready for the swap? Post pics would love to see this get built.
Enping, thanks for the info. That will help me in getting an idea on how to get to my power goals. Few questions tho, did you go aggressive with your tune or mild? Also, how do you like the new power? My daily driver is an APR Stage 3 Audi A4 B8 with 298 AWHP and 262 ft/lbs, but because of the weight its nothing insane. I would like the combination of power and weight on this vehicle to be very aggressive. Factory specs of the car put it under 2000 lbs curb with the F engine installed, for reference.

I have direct access to 2 K24A4's at the moment. I can pick up each engine for about 450 bones without the trans. You said all that needs to be done to adapt the K20 oil pump is to cut a piece off the pump. Do you have any pictures or can you direct me to a write up on this so I can see what needs to be modified? I would greatly appreciate it. If its a simple task, I would rather just grab a engine and get started now as I have sat on this project for way too long now. You are correct about Hasport selling the mounts. There is also a mount kit from Hybrid Racing for $150 cheaper. I think that with either kit, I will have to cut and re-weld some of the engine supports for the motor because there is no traditional wheel well and frame. I will detail this as the build progresses. As for the wiring...there is so much custom work here that a production swap harness probably wont help me at all. I was an aircraft electrician for the Air Force for 6 years so building my own harness, while being very time consuming, is probably the direction I will have to take.

This past weekend I got my shop mostly in order. I will snap some photos this weekend as I will be able to finish getting it in order so I can begin work again. I will also snap some photos of my setup. The car right now is in its infancy. It has mocked up front and rear suspension/brakes as well as the steering column and beginning of the brake system (booster and BMC). These parts will come back off when everything is assembled to make way for upgraded parts. As for the car being ready for the swap, there is no engine so I guess its as ready as it will ever be!
 

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My swap is in a crx which currently weighs 2040lbs. The tune is aggressive. The engine could make more power with a better intake manifold/individual throttle bodies, ftw fuel, and a ported head. The power in the crx is plenty, really nails you into the seat. Best time at the local 1/8th of mile while slipping has been 7.5 @ 92 mph.

Here's a link showing the modified pump:
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71046

There used to be a thread in the engine building section that detailed it out but the pics are no longer there. But basically you cut the part that interferes with the raised part of the block. Also since you are converting to a k20 oil pump there is an old oil passage that needs to be blocked that was previously for the k24 pump. The thread above mentions it also you just need to thread the hole and put a screw or allen bolt in there. You may want to check out the engine building section on here there is a lot of k20/k24 info. Also when using a k24a4 you need to change the engine bracket on the timing chain side to the one from the k24a1 if not the engine mount wont sit properly. Sensors you can use off the k24 are the knock sensor (need to depin and use k20 plug), crank sensor (need to depin and use k20 plug and switch two wires around), cam position sensors(Plug n Play), map sensor(PnP), Vtec solenoid(PnP), vtc sensor(PnP). You can not use the TPS from the accord it is useless lol. Just buy a hybrid racing or k-tuned TPS. You can use the k24 coil packs.
 

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I didnt even know any of these were still around! in for this. let us know if you need anything, would love to help you out :up:

-Colin
AutoFair Honda
 

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I remember those, sweet-looking cars but I recall some nonsense with marketing BS. Then there were a few cases of people sending their money to Eastern Europe(!) and having slow or non-existant shipment of product.

It was hard to figure how how well the car actually handled. The company said it was great, of course. The few that were built all had differing setups so it was hard to know if they handled they way they did due to driver input, individual configuration, or if it was a designed-in trait.

It had the looks to stick around but various dramas and/or lack of sales took it down. Wonder if the K-1 site is still around, there was some drama there as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I remember those, sweet-looking cars but I recall some nonsense with marketing BS. Then there were a few cases of people sending their money to Eastern Europe(!) and having slow or non-existant shipment of product.

It was hard to figure how how well the car actually handled. The company said it was great, of course. The few that were built all had differing setups so it was hard to know if they handled they way they did due to driver input, individual configuration, or if it was a designed-in trait.

It had the looks to stick around but various dramas and/or lack of sales took it down. Wonder if the K-1 site is still around, there was some drama there as well.
The site is still up and running, although the one who manages it disappeared. The entire photo gallery is inoperable and probably a few other features. At least the search function works for when I run into a few issues that have been overcome by other builders. As for drama, I don't recall any more drama than any other forum. Maybe even a bit less since it was such a niche market and the ones who actually owned and built a car made up only a very small percentage of members. Most were dreamers and theoretical build enthusiasts.

Anyways, most of the cars that saw completion did have different setups because the car, in its barest form, allows for easy modification when building. Hence why I am choosing an all motor K build and a lot of other custom parts versus what was originally designed. If you build the car with the recommended parts, it will perform as a modified Accord. No thanks. As with almost any car, the driver will (should) dial in the suspension and power to suit his/her driving habits and preferences. This can be said for any vehicle for that matter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I didnt even know any of these were still around! in for this. let us know if you need anything, would love to help you out :up:

-Colin
AutoFair Honda
Thanks for the offer! I will undoubtably need help as this project picks up. At the moment, I am still trying to source a K24a1 engine for a decent price. I will post some pics this Saturday or Sunday of where i currently stand with the build. I will take a bunch so you guys get a good understanding of what im working with.

I like my modified Accord. :Ookay:

It's not a CB7 though. :hb:
LOL! I didnt mean to hate man. A modified Accord is still a nice machine, but when you add the suspension, aesthetics and exotic properties of this car in the mix, one expects a certain amount of performance that just isnt on par with 20 year old stock Honda Accord Parts.
 

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What's the expected final dry-weight, somewhere around 1800 lbs? Just the weight reduction should give very nice performance with a stock engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What's the expected final dry-weight, somewhere around 1800 lbs? Just the weight reduction should give very nice performance with a stock engine.
I am guessing around there. I plan on weighing it wet but not dry. But afterwards, it should be easy to figure dry weight after i sum up all the fluids added and take the difference from the wet weight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So here is some shots of what I am currently working with. I just purchased a PRB head and should be picking up a K24a4 longblock either today or tomorrow. Hopefully by next weekend I can have that engine stripped down and cleaned up so I can send it out to get machined. The shop is still missing a lot of my stuff. I will be setting it up as the build progresses. I am still missing a lot of my tools and cabinets and I also have to get the floor coated. Figured if I waited to provide any pics until it was how I wanted it, then you guys wouldn't see any pics until the car was done! Enjoy.









 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Small update. Got my hands on a complete K24a4 engine as well as a K20A2 PRB cylinder head. Cleaned all of my old H22 parts up and will be taking some photos and putting them up for sale this weekend. Next step:

Wiseco 88mm 12.5:1 Pistons
Skunk 2 Alpha Rods
ACL Bearing set
Machine Shop for Bore, Hone and Balance

I am hoping to have this done in 3-4 weeks. Local machine shop is well versed in K-series so I will be doing all block machining local.

Once the internals are done, I will source the remaining block components (timing parts, oil pump parts, oil pan, etc.). Plan is to have those parts on order 2 weeks following Internal build. Then I will switch to the head.

Here are a few random pics of the K24a4 breakdown. Nothing fancy here, but progress is always good.







 

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Small update. Got my hands on a complete K24a4 engine as well as a K20A2 PRB cylinder head. Cleaned all of my old H22 parts up and will be taking some photos and putting them up for sale this weekend. Next step:

Wiseco 88mm 12.5:1 Pistons
Skunk 2 Alpha Rods
ACL Bearing set
Machine Shop for Bore, Hone and Balance
Just now seeing this thread, so my input is likely too late. But beware of hard track use with 88mm on stock sleeves. I know that 88mm is considered by many to be ok, and is why I tried it for awhile, but it only lasted one season before the sleeves developed hairline cracks. The first sign, was compression starting to drop in one cylinder. That kept getting worse and eventually another cylinder started going lower. At the same time, there began to be piston rattle when the motor was cold. And this was with low-expansion Supertechs.

Since you are beyond the point of no return, my advise is to do both a leakdown and compression check periodically to verify health.


 
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