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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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I guess I’m not sure what the ambient temp gets to under the hood, if the coolant and air /fuel are all sub 200 F then the question would be how much does the header make it rise , and if so what temp drops could be seen using exhaust heat wrap.
In my former job we made harness holding up to 150 °C. We used for that a not ROHS conform wire material, you need an exception allowance to bring such stuff into the market, as most insulations are just capable of 125 °C. The M3 spec of 80 °C is not too high, but I believe it won't melt immediately if it is 90 °C. The temperature alone of the engine bay isn't enough, there has to be a sufficient heat transfer to the harness to warm it also up to 80 °C. So if you check for heat transfer, like touching surfaces (connected to oil = 90+ °C, to coolant = 80+ °C), then it might be good to hold them above of it via a cable bracket/clamp.
 

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97 civic HX K24a
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Discussion Starter #362
In my former job we made harness holding up to 150 °C. We used for that a not ROHS conform wire material, you need an exception allowance to bring such stuff into the market, as most insulations are just capable of 125 °C. The M3 spec of 80 °C is not too high, but I believe it won't melt immediately if it is 90 °C. The temperature alone of the engine bay isn't enough, there has to be a sufficient heat transfer to the harness to warm it also up to 80 °C. So if you check for heat transfer, like touching surfaces (connected to oil = 90+ °C, to coolant = 80+ °C), then it might be good to hold them above of it via a cable bracket/clamp.
Wow 150 C is pretty hot, what was the application for the wiring ? I feel pretty safe with a heat rating of 175F for just sitting in the engine bay, but only time will tell. A friend came by and picked up my engine harness last night to replace the connector for me (I always find a way to mess the pins up) and my next task is to start removing the dashboard to get the heater core out.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Wow 150 C is pretty hot, what was the application for the wiring ? I feel pretty safe with a heat rating of 175F for just sitting in the engine bay, but only time will tell. A friend came by and picked up my engine harness last night to replace the connector for me (I always find a way to mess the pins up) and my next task is to start removing the dashboard to get the heater core out.
It were with industrial engines like the 16 cylinder engine from the series 4000 with the model name L64

103330


I was responsible for the alternation of load system (from intake till exhaust) as well as the ignition system (the first system able to deliver 50 kV peak while supporting the pre-chamber-spark plugs gently to more then 3000 h WOT operation, 350 USD/spark plug). At the 20 cylinder engine the harness has a distance of about 80 mm to the turbine housing, which has roughly 200 °C all day long, as these engines run 8000 h a year in WOT. Once we had a leakage at the flange of the turbine, so exhaust gases flow over the harness and melt it. It happened at a series end test and break in for a customer engine, that was easy to solve but a tough challenge for us engineers on the way to solution as the customer timeline was tough.
From there I know the harness can have huge loads. I know some turbo guys experienced melted harness. With an NA engine the temp.-load isn't that high, but 80 °C isn't it also a not too high capability. Just wanted to point on that.

BTW, this is a gas engine, running at 1.82 in lambda with about 4.5 bar of MAP, the combustion design process has similarity to race engines, because the idea for it was from me LOL :D.
 

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97 civic HX K24a
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Discussion Starter #364
It were with industrial engines like the 16 cylinder engine from the series 4000 with the model name L64

View attachment 103330

I was responsible for the alternation of load system (from intake till exhaust) as well as the ignition system (the first system able to deliver 50 kV peak while supporting the pre-chamber-spark plugs gently to more then 3000 h WOT operation, 350 USD/spark plug). At the 20 cylinder engine the harness has a distance of about 80 mm to the turbine housing, which has roughly 200 °C all day long, as these engines run 8000 h a year in WOT. Once we had a leakage at the flange of the turbine, so exhaust gases flow over the harness and melt it. It happened at a series end test and break in for a customer engine, that was easy to solve but a tough challenge for us engineers on the way to solution as the customer timeline was tough.
From there I know the harness can have huge loads. I know some turbo guys experienced melted harness. With an NA engine the temp.-load isn't that high, but 80 °C isn't it also a not too high capability. Just wanted to point on that.

BTW, this is a gas engine, running at 1.82 in lambda with about 4.5 bar of MAP, the combustion design process has similarity to race engines, because the idea for it was from me LOL :D.
Wow that is a massive engine, what does it power ? 4.5 bar is the pressure inside the intake manifold ?
 

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97 civic HX K24a
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Discussion Starter #366
Got the engine harness put back in place, and the new heater core arrived yesterday. Next will be installing that and wrapping up the charge and conversion harnesses. With the weather I likely will have more time from work coming up to tackle these things and get the car on the road sooner than later 🤞
7BCD5F26-A79E-4ED8-9B6F-3FCDBA79A3AC.jpeg
53B13A8F-201B-49BF-B704-C045099EC4E2.jpeg
 

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It were with industrial engines like the 16 cylinder engine from the series 4000 with the model name L64

View attachment 103330

I was responsible for the alternation of load system (from intake till exhaust) as well as the ignition system (the first system able to deliver 50 kV peak while supporting the pre-chamber-spark plugs gently to more then 3000 h WOT operation, 350 USD/spark plug). At the 20 cylinder engine the harness has a distance of about 80 mm to the turbine housing, which has roughly 200 °C all day long, as these engines run 8000 h a year in WOT. Once we had a leakage at the flange of the turbine, so exhaust gases flow over the harness and melt it. It happened at a series end test and break in for a customer engine, that was easy to solve but a tough challenge for us engineers on the way to solution as the customer timeline was tough.
From there I know the harness can have huge loads. I know some turbo guys experienced melted harness. With an NA engine the temp.-load isn't that high, but 80 °C isn't it also a not too high capability. Just wanted to point on that.

BTW, this is a gas engine, running at 1.82 in lambda with about 4.5 bar of MAP, the combustion design process has similarity to race engines, because the idea for it was from me LOL :D.
That engine is amazing. The trade knowledge in that room is above exceptional shear quality. I was contracted at NASA for many years to perform industrial mechanical piping systems, X-Ray welding, millwright, and rigging. I used to have some interesting security clearance.
 

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Got the engine harness put back in place, and the new heater core arrived yesterday. Next will be installing that and wrapping up the charge and conversion harnesses. With the weather I likely will have more time from work coming up to tackle these things and get the car on the road sooner than later 🤞 View attachment 103365 View attachment 103366
Man that is clean. I like the black agenda lol...
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Wow that is a massive engine, what does it power ? 4.5 bar is the pressure inside the intake manifold ?
Yes, we made single cylinder tests with two stage turbo charging up to 7.5 bar of boost and an engine efficiency almost at 50 %. The potential of the lean burn concept is amazing as you can overcome the knock issues as well as you can run amazing fast combustion process designs with the pre-chamber technology. Was a very nice experience.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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A couple small little updates after the holiday, some reading material and a much needed ECU mount for the Kpro 👍👍👍
Nice literature, which gives an good overview about K-series modification effects and some nice numbers. There are some copy n' paste failures in it and because of Mr. Holdener made many measurements together with Hondata you find a lot of advertising for them in it. Mr. Holdener is still very active in the tuning scene, especially on youtube. He provides a lot of information but dives on the surface, not very deep. His video style and information presentation is a follower-fishing one, he knows doing marketing for himself. One should always look twice on his measurement setup, the never quality proven tuning quality and the results. Back to back tests are a powerful instrument to promote parts, even BS parts can come out as a winner if tuning quality is kept a black box.

If you really like to read something useful about engine tuning, I would recommend the Author Greg Banish, who wrote some nice starter books about how to tune an engine. It's more a in general tuning knowhow book, not K-series specific, but has enough deep dive to understand the coherences of processes in an engine and why one should know it for tuning.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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...I was contracted at NASA for many years to perform industrial mechanical piping systems, X-Ray welding, millwright, and rigging. I used to have some interesting security clearance.
Wow, that sounds very interesting. What are the advantages of X-Ray welding? Focus concentration for specific height welds?

Man that is clean. I like the black agenda lol...
Yes, this black-silver-theme comes out very cool and serious 🆙. I really like it KBuilt!
 

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97 civic HX K24a
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Discussion Starter #373
Wow, that sounds very interesting. What are the advantages of X-Ray welding? Focus concentration for specific height welds?

Yes, this black-silver-theme comes out very cool and serious 🆙. I really like it KBuilt!
Yes I’m curious about the X-ray welding as well lol. ThAnkyou 👍 something about the black and silver is all too satisfying when I look under the hood. I would eventually like to get the engine bay and car painted a fresh black so everything really looks good.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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...I would eventually like to get the engine bay and car painted a fresh black so everything really looks good.
Ahhhh...looks already fine, the money pit 😋. Wouldn't you invest this in a bit more power...🤭? The K24 engines are very thankfully on higher duration cams, because they have an nice impulse transfer to the air column. Just alternative money pit idea.
 

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97 civic HX K24a
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Discussion Starter #375
Ahhhh...looks already fine, the money pit 😋. Wouldn't you invest this in a bit more power...🤭? The K24 engines are very thankfully on higher duration cams, because they have an nice impulse transfer to the air column. Just alternative money pit idea.
Ya unfortunately for me, I have plans to build the PRB cylinder head with a nice set of cams as well. As well as determining whether to invest into the k20z1 shortblock or the k24a block that’s in the car. The engine work will come first, I put speed before looks. The shell I have is straight enough with little body work needed so as long as I don’t wreck it when the time comes for a respray it should be relatively painless.
 

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97 civic HX K24a
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Discussion Starter #376
Ya unfortunately for me, I have plans to build the PRB cylinder head with a nice set of cams as well. As well as determining whether to invest into the k20z1 shortblock or the k24a block that’s in the car. The engine work will come first, I put speed before looks. The shell I have is straight enough with little body work needed so as long as I don’t wreck it when the time comes for a respray it should be relatively painless.
I was just speaking with a friend who knows of a cylinder head shop near me so the k20 head will be getting sent off for a resurface, hot tank and probably freshen the valves up as well. Then I’ll keep it wrapped up until the funds are there for valvetrain and camshafts.
 

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Wow, that sounds very interesting. What are the advantages of X-Ray welding? Focus concentration for specific height welds?

Yes, this black-silver-theme comes out very cool and serious 🆙. I really like it KBuilt!
the advantages of X-ray welding is a piece of mind that there is zero defects in the weld's quality. It proves there is a code spec root weld with complete fusion without weld suck up. The X-rays will show improper starts and stops not having proper tie-in fusions. X-rays welds justify charging the big money.

NASA likes to use 5000psi air piping. Liquid Nitrogen piping. High Pressure steam which makes pipe grow and shrink from transition functions. They do not want any failures from poor welding. So they pay big bucks to ensure quality.
 

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Discussion Starter #378
the advantages of X-ray welding is a piece of mind that there is zero defects in the weld's quality. It proves there is a code spec root weld with complete fusion without weld suck up. The X-rays will show improper starts and stops not having proper tie-in fusions. X-rays welds justify charging the big money.

NASA likes to use 5000psi air piping. Liquid Nitrogen piping. High Pressure steam which makes pipe grow and shrink from transition functions. They do not want any failures from poor welding. So they pay big bucks to ensure quality.
Very interesting. I’m not too versed in welding info so I like to pick up what I can.
 
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