Re: Jaydee's All Out Rotrex on K motors - down under
Nice Work jaydee.
I'm subscribed.
Nice Work jaydee.
I'm subscribed.
Jaydee's All Out Rotrex, TVS and Compound Forced Induction K Motors
In this thread I will try to show what I have done with the rotrex superchargers on the K motors. I have being playing with the Rotrex on a stock K20Z1 for 4 or 5 years, and bought a Dynapack in December last year to do the development properly.
Long term I am building 89 x 90.7mm, 88 x 99mm, and 89 x 103mm K24 ERL blocks.
These will all have ported heads, and cam profiles I have been developing specially for the rotrex.
In my signature I will keep updating my current WHP and as I find the time I will build the jaydeequantum.com.au web site with plenty of photos of the builds.
With the C38-91 the %eff is pretty good, so I am quietly confident that it might be possible to give the turbos a run for their money, at <25psi boost anyway. I may even try 2x SC in series. We shall see.
c38 81 vc C3094 are dyno graphs of the engine as first run on the dyno compared to the current setup, with the bigger intercooler, 1 months dyno development tuning and bigger SC. This is now about the limit.
![Text Line Colorfulness Screenshot Technology]()
509 - 510 are 2 dyno runs with the 509 being the current tune with a C38-81.
![Text Line Screenshot Technology Font]()
I still have the RRC inlet manifold, 74mm throttle body, and a bigger SC to try. The supercharger was given to me to try by Tom at Bullet Cars, who are the Australian importers and they have been very supportive of all my development. I will try, but I am not thinking the gains will be much more that 15 - 30WHP.
Crankshaft BHP is approx 7 - 8% higher than my measurement of WHP on the hubs, so we are at about 550BHP at the crank. The SC rating is 630 less accessories and SC drive so its maxed out. The next one I am going to try is the C38-91 which is 11% bigger. It should be interesting......
our pump fuel is equivalent to USA 92 octane and I run water/methanol injection
Enjoy, Tomola's video of the Jaydee Ariel Atom 600, with 579WHP partially tuned.
and here is the dyno graph of the 579WHP partially tuned motor.
![]()
Even though the quality is not great here are some track testing videos.
And Winton in car video with Motec Data overlayed
This is a copy of the Poster from the final year presentation in November 2013,and I thought you guys might be interested. The K25 engine simulation specification was from late 2012 as our Twin Rotrex SC'ed K25 is now at mid 600's WHP but otherwise the information is fairly current.
![]()
Common Question's I get.....
Cheers Jeff
Long term I am building 89 x 90.7mm, 88 x 99mm, and 89 x 103mm K24 ERL blocks.
These will all have ported heads, and cam profiles I have been developing specially for the rotrex.
In my signature I will keep updating my current WHP and as I find the time I will build the jaydeequantum.com.au web site with plenty of photos of the builds.
With the C38-91 the %eff is pretty good, so I am quietly confident that it might be possible to give the turbos a run for their money, at <25psi boost anyway. I may even try 2x SC in series. We shall see.
c38 81 vc C3094 are dyno graphs of the engine as first run on the dyno compared to the current setup, with the bigger intercooler, 1 months dyno development tuning and bigger SC. This is now about the limit.
509 - 510 are 2 dyno runs with the 509 being the current tune with a C38-81.
I still have the RRC inlet manifold, 74mm throttle body, and a bigger SC to try. The supercharger was given to me to try by Tom at Bullet Cars, who are the Australian importers and they have been very supportive of all my development. I will try, but I am not thinking the gains will be much more that 15 - 30WHP.
Crankshaft BHP is approx 7 - 8% higher than my measurement of WHP on the hubs, so we are at about 550BHP at the crank. The SC rating is 630 less accessories and SC drive so its maxed out. The next one I am going to try is the C38-91 which is 11% bigger. It should be interesting......
our pump fuel is equivalent to USA 92 octane and I run water/methanol injection
Enjoy, Tomola's video of the Jaydee Ariel Atom 600, with 579WHP partially tuned.
and here is the dyno graph of the 579WHP partially tuned motor.
Even though the quality is not great here are some track testing videos.
And Winton in car video with Motec Data overlayed
This is a copy of the Poster from the final year presentation in November 2013,and I thought you guys might be interested. The K25 engine simulation specification was from late 2012 as our Twin Rotrex SC'ed K25 is now at mid 600's WHP but otherwise the information is fairly current.
Common Question's I get.....
I would place the hose feeding the solenoid close to the Rotrex. This will give you the highest boost source and enable PID control software in your ECU to create the most accurate PWM. As it is before the IC the pressure will be 2-3 psi more and this means the lowest boost setting will be 2-3 psi less with the 4 port solenoid which will give more adjustment range.JAYDEE im trying to connect my WG with 4 port solenoid but i have no idea where connect this pipe which is conected to boost source.
Check this out
Could You tell me where is connected Your????
thanks
Marcin
Cheers Jeff
1 - 20 of 1838 Posts
Re: Jaydee's All Out Rotrex on K motors - down under
this thread will be very very very interesting
:up:
this thread will be very very very interesting
:up:
Re: Jaydee's All Out Rotrex on K motors - down under
old intercooler with 50mm piping, C30-94 maxed to 385WHP, then larger SC C38-71 maxed out to 474WHP
![Auto part Engine Automotive super charger part Automotive engine part Carburetor]()
new larger intercooler under construction, reused an old air research core, bar and plate unit
![Auto part Engine Vehicle Car Automotive super charger part]()
the finished larger intercooler with 3 inch piping, c38-71 maxed to 484WHP, then fitted C38-81 to 510WHP, outlet is 7 degs above ambient on the road (before the water/methanol injection nozzle). A 15 Seconds run on the dyno without the fan and you will burn your hand on the intercooler!
![Vehicle Car Auto part Engine Hood]()
old intercooler with 50mm piping, C30-94 maxed to 385WHP, then larger SC C38-71 maxed out to 474WHP
new larger intercooler under construction, reused an old air research core, bar and plate unit
the finished larger intercooler with 3 inch piping, c38-71 maxed to 484WHP, then fitted C38-81 to 510WHP, outlet is 7 degs above ambient on the road (before the water/methanol injection nozzle). A 15 Seconds run on the dyno without the fan and you will burn your hand on the intercooler!
Re: Jaydee's All Out Rotrex on K motors - down under
jaydee,have you seen my PM ?
jaydee,have you seen my PM ?
Re: Jaydee's All Out Rotrex on K motors - down under
sorry I missed it. Replied now. Cheersjaydee,have you seen my PM ?
Re: Jaydee's All Out Rotrex on K motors - down under
well,let's talk about your Boost controler.
so,first,which solenoid do you use?Hondata,Perrin ... ?
does the system react very fast,because it will be very usefull for the 1st and 2nd gear
about the External Wastegate,do you use a TIAL 44mm?
where do you locate it on the piping?
when it's opened,does it disturb KPRO or not?
do you have some pics too? :silly:
with this system,is it possible to make,like on turbo car,a "mode A" and "mode B" : i explain,the rotrex unit can deliver for example 16Psi at max of boost!so,the "mode A" for 10Psi so,with the WG opened for a long time.
and "mode B" with full boost
well,let's talk about your Boost controler.
so,first,which solenoid do you use?Hondata,Perrin ... ?
does the system react very fast,because it will be very usefull for the 1st and 2nd gear
about the External Wastegate,do you use a TIAL 44mm?
where do you locate it on the piping?
when it's opened,does it disturb KPRO or not?
do you have some pics too? :silly:
with this system,is it possible to make,like on turbo car,a "mode A" and "mode B" : i explain,the rotrex unit can deliver for example 16Psi at max of boost!so,the "mode A" for 10Psi so,with the WG opened for a long time.
and "mode B" with full boost
Re: Jaydee's All Out Rotrex on K motors - down under
its a tuning tool who really cares. i bet it goes down the track faster then your car
its a tuning tool who really cares. i bet it goes down the track faster then your car
Re: Jaydee's All Out Rotrex on K motors - down under
I started with the Hondata/Motec unit as its the same valve. It did work ok, but I was having problems as the %pulse width v's boost aim was hard to setup. At the time I only had a tial 38mm wastegate, so this might have been part of the problem. I could only get about 10psi boost control range. I would recommend the 44mm as a minimum. 50mm + would be good, so the PW is short from the ECU. I now use the Autronic valve, which is much better.
How fast it reacts depends on your attention to the piping and the valve. As the air control lines need to fill to the solenoid, after the solenoid and then to the wastegate under the diaphram, you need to keep all this to a minimum.
You are worried about boost control in 1st, 2nd. Since fitting the Rotrex I have never used 1st, even parking. Your car would be most likely the same as you get 0.5psi off idle, which makes the VE% of the motor on the mild cams really nice. I would expect you to take off in 2nd if you are going quick. The boost climbs pretty close with RPM, and so does torque, so she will spin in the upper RPM if its going too. By this time you have more road speed and more grip, so you can either short shift to avoid it, or use boost control to "limit" the top end boost in the low gears. I have gone a different route now, using an Autronic SM4, and have full TC, but I still need the boost control as its much easier to program when you don't have to cut 300bhp....
By the way, backing off the throttle but still revving it out does not work, as the VE% of the motor might only change by a few %. I have noticed on the logging maybe 10% loss in accel G, at 50% Throttle with the stock 60mm TB.
I fitted the Tial on the intercooler to the TB pipe. My reasoning was to keep the flow happening thru the intercooler to get better throttle transient response. My response is instant, even on the data logging at 100/sec.
Most ECU's allow different boost levels to be setup, including the KPro. You will need to calibrate pulse width(PW) v's the "boost cap it gives", and then you can do as you are suggesting, with different modes for different gears.
I haven't taken specific pics, but in the "new larger intercooler under construction" in a previous post you can just see the red Tial wastegate.
You have opened up on some tricky stuff.well,let's talk about your Boost controler.
so,first,which solenoid do you use?Hondata,Perrin ... ?
does the system react very fast,because it will be very usefull for the 1st and 2nd gear
about the External Wastegate,do you use a TIAL 44mm?
where do you locate it on the piping?
I started with the Hondata/Motec unit as its the same valve. It did work ok, but I was having problems as the %pulse width v's boost aim was hard to setup. At the time I only had a tial 38mm wastegate, so this might have been part of the problem. I could only get about 10psi boost control range. I would recommend the 44mm as a minimum. 50mm + would be good, so the PW is short from the ECU. I now use the Autronic valve, which is much better.
How fast it reacts depends on your attention to the piping and the valve. As the air control lines need to fill to the solenoid, after the solenoid and then to the wastegate under the diaphram, you need to keep all this to a minimum.
You are worried about boost control in 1st, 2nd. Since fitting the Rotrex I have never used 1st, even parking. Your car would be most likely the same as you get 0.5psi off idle, which makes the VE% of the motor on the mild cams really nice. I would expect you to take off in 2nd if you are going quick. The boost climbs pretty close with RPM, and so does torque, so she will spin in the upper RPM if its going too. By this time you have more road speed and more grip, so you can either short shift to avoid it, or use boost control to "limit" the top end boost in the low gears. I have gone a different route now, using an Autronic SM4, and have full TC, but I still need the boost control as its much easier to program when you don't have to cut 300bhp....
By the way, backing off the throttle but still revving it out does not work, as the VE% of the motor might only change by a few %. I have noticed on the logging maybe 10% loss in accel G, at 50% Throttle with the stock 60mm TB.
I fitted the Tial on the intercooler to the TB pipe. My reasoning was to keep the flow happening thru the intercooler to get better throttle transient response. My response is instant, even on the data logging at 100/sec.
The boost control solenoid is just capping the boost to your desired value. You will need to map the Kpro at these load sites, so its alot like a turbo tune.when it's opened,does it disturb KPRO or not?
do you have some pics too? :silly:
with this system,is it possible to make,like on turbo car,a "mode A" and "mode B" : i explain,the rotrex unit can deliver for example 16Psi at max of boost!so,the "mode A" for 10Psi so,with the WG opened for a long time.
and "mode B" with full boost
Most ECU's allow different boost levels to be setup, including the KPro. You will need to calibrate pulse width(PW) v's the "boost cap it gives", and then you can do as you are suggesting, with different modes for different gears.
I haven't taken specific pics, but in the "new larger intercooler under construction" in a previous post you can just see the red Tial wastegate.
Re: Jaydee's All Out Rotrex on K motors - down under
:up::up::up:this thread will be very very very interesting
1 - 20 of 1838 Posts
