Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I doubt this is the right place to drop this thread. But I was considering using an iris style throttle body for better airflow, has anyone done that with a K-series before? If not, why?

Example:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,963 Posts
I doubt this is the right place to drop this thread. But I was considering using an iris style throttle body for better airflow, has anyone done that with a K-series before? If not, why?

Example:
Are there even any actual TB's made like that? That does'nt look like a TB to me, as a wild ass quess I'd have to say if a TB looked like that it'd probably lose power vs a traditional TB. Maybe if the fins slanted in one direction like a fighter jet's turbine exhaust then yes it would be worth it. In all honestly it looks like a nightmare to make as alot of companies can't even get a regular TB design right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That's a terrible example, but the "jet turbine" concept is what I'm going for. Low-end it's not the best compared to a normal TB, but top end it's just a straight unrestricted tube. Which I would assume would lead to some interesting power gains at the top end.



Here's a much better example I found. Looks like it was done in SolidWorks. If only it was angled like a jet turbine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Are there even any actual TB's made like that? That does'nt look like a TB to me, as a wild ass quess I'd have to say if a TB looked like that it'd probably lose power vs a traditional TB. Maybe if the fins slanted in one direction like a fighter jet's turbine exhaust then yes it would be worth it. In all honestly it looks like a nightmare to make as alot of companies can't even get a regular TB design right.
And now that I recall, I do remember hearing about them being used in FSAE cars.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,963 Posts
if it was angled then yeah I can definitely see it working. Drivability may suffer,but then again it may not. I thought of this idea roughly 5 years ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
if it was angled then yeah I can definitely see it working. Drivability may suffer,but then again it may not. I thought of this idea roughly 5 years ago.
Driveability would definitely suffer, it's a track-only kind of mod. Sort of like ITBs. Cool, but you don't want to drive around the street with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Bump, really hoping someone has some good info on this style of throttle body and it's advantages/disadvantages and knows some of the theory behind it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,963 Posts
Bump, really hoping someone has some good info on this style of throttle body and it's advantages/disadvantages and knows some of the theory behind it.
There is'nt a style of TB like that,so there is'nt going to be any info on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
There is'nt a style of TB like that,so there is'nt going to be any info on it.
I mean, some people have probably though of it before and done research on it.

Why not just run a barrel style throttle body. its what f1 uses (or used to at one point)

Iris style has caught my attention lately. The iris style would flow better at lower throttle, or so I would assume. But then again, not much info on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
Have any more pics of that iris style tb?? where would/does the cable hook up? would you need a "cat-tail" cable so all the sliders move simultaneously or do they move via one central pivot?? interesting piece of work!!!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,963 Posts
Have any more pics of that iris style tb?? where would/does the cable hook up? would you need a "cat-tail" cable so all the sliders move simultaneously or do they move via one central pivot?? interesting piece of work!!!!
:facepalm:

it is'nt even a TB,he was just using that pic for reference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
:whiner:

yes i realize that, and that's why i asked if he had any pics of such an animal... can't fathom what it could/would look like and how it could/would work...

being an aircraft engine mech myself, i could see the spiraled variable vanes, (called VSV's in most modern jet a/c engines/powerplants, but they are not spiraled...) but the mechanism to move it would be way too heavy, too many moving parts and hence force needed to do so.. for what it's worth, for what it's meant to do... might be worth it for forced induction with higher intake pressures and/or speeds, but for n/a, nah...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
:whiner:

yes i realize that, and that's why i asked if he had any pics of such an animal... can't fathom what it could/would look like and how it could/would work...

being an aircraft engine mech myself, i could see the spiraled variable vanes, but the mechanism to move it would be way too heavy, too many moving parts and hence force needed to do so.. for what it's worth, for what it's meant to do... might be worth it for forced induction with higher intake pressures and/or speeds, but for n/a, nah...
If it could be designed correctly, used on ITBs would be interesting to see. Especially since ITBs and a different style TB are "track-only" kind of mods. Your driveability sucks, but you get great gains at the track where you're at full throttle a lot.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,963 Posts
:whiner:

yes i realize that, and that's why i asked if he had any pics of such an animal... can't fathom what it could/would look like and how it could/would work...

being an aircraft engine mech myself, i could see the spiraled variable vanes, but the mechanism to move it would be way too heavy, too many moving parts and hence force needed to do so.. for what it's worth, for what it's meant to do... might be worth it for forced induction with higher intake pressures and/or speeds, but for n/a, nah...
I imagine the mechanism to make it work would be similar to the mechanism that makes an F-stop work in a camera,the biggest thing is the TB made like this would have to have the vanes angled inward or risk a bunch of power robbing turbulence. Designed correctly it would work for either N//A or F/I. The myth that parts work better for F/I is ridiculous to say the least.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,963 Posts
If it could be designed correctly, used on ITBs would be interesting to see. Especially since ITBs and a different style TB are "track-only" kind of mods. Your driveability sucks, but you get great gains at the track where you're at full throttle a lot.
Drivability on well tuned and appropriately sized ITB's does not suffer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
I imagine the mechanism to make it work would be similar to the mechanism that makes an F-stop work in a camera,the biggest thing is the TB made like this would have to have the vanes angled inward or risk a bunch of power robbing turbulence. Designed correctly it would work for either N//A or F/I. The myth that parts work better for F/I is ridiculous to say the least.
Exactly, motors like to breath, the more air you can cram in there the more fuel you can dump; the more power you make. Would be great for N/A and fantastic in F/I under full boost. Works better than a standard TB.

Edit: I understand that ITBs can be tuned to not harm driveability, but I'm going with what happens when someone makes a thread about ITBs and gets flamed because they want to DD the car. ITBs in a street car, for general reference, isn't the best idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
K, just so you catch what i am thinking: an n/a piston motor "sucks" the air into the cylinder block, so the air movement is at pretty much what the pistons are pulling in/depends on the rpm. A f/i engine "presses" the air into the block, does it not? take for example, a shop air pistol, hold a ping-pong ball over it and press the trigger.. the ball will dance at a certain height, it won't shoot up to the ceiling and "fly away" would it? why: because the dispersion of the air, meaning that the pressure being greater coming out of the pistol (static pressure), quickly looses it's energy in the surrounding atmosphere/enviroment (ambient pressure). i can see an iris working IF it were to be used on itb's, one per itb, cause otherwise, the pressure (force/power whatever) would be greater in the area closest to the iris, loosing momentum the "further" away you get, meaning the last runner in the i/m would/might only be moving what it itself is "sucking", the pressure would be lost, or have lost alot of it's energy.
that's why i say the turbo application would be best... more pressure through "forced" (compressed) air, than the n/a's "vaccum" (sucking the air). I made a few pics at work last night to show all ya'll what a commercial jet engines "variable vanes" look like, not at all to to be compaired with an "afterburner" from a military jet engine. (which i think the first picture shows, if not from a rocket...) If anyone is interested, i will post the pics, if not, also good...
Later
Mounty
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top