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Discussion Starter #1
Would this combo work together? if so, how well you think? Getting cams soon but I want Reliability also as with Power. Goal 260whp.
Getting toda valve spring because I heard single spring is better then dual spring.
As far as Cower stage 2 3/4, it has a dual spring kit. And Would it be as Reliable in a K20a as for the a2?
Thats why IPS is on top now for me.
Needing valve and retainers also.

Opinions welcome.
 

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typer0186 said:
Would this combo work together? if so, how well you think? Getting cams soon but I want Reliability also as with Power. Goal 260whp.
Getting toda valve spring because I heard single spring is better then dual spring.
As far as Cower stage 2 3/4, it has a dual spring kit. And Would it be as Reliable in a K20a as for the a2?
Thats why IPS is on top now for me.
Needing valve and retainers also.

Opinions welcome.
I believe rsxmachine is using the Toda springs with his IPS cams and it seems to be working fine.
 

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Just wait a day and Ron should chime in soon about this... But whatever it is, go with teh IPS cams, you will really like them a lot and it will defintely get you to the 260hp range....

Ron (EDO) will help you out..
 

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We have certified the Toda spring for customers that already had them and did not wish to incur any additional cost, effectively maximizing their previous investment. However, they are not rated for use with our cams past 8500rpm. If you're planning on doing a serious build, we recommend a dual spring setup and here's why. In the event of a single spring failure, most likely there will be extensive damage. With a dual spring setup, it is unlikely that both springs will fail exactly at the same time, due to each having a unique natural frequency and force. Therefore, if one should happen to fail, you would at least have one to prevent the valve from dropping completely, increasing your chances of saving the motor.

We are a direct distributor for Eibach EVS, so for race and extended high rpm applications - we like these for their unique natural frequency characteristics, while not stressing out the valvetrain with excessive spring force. These are the same springs used in Real Time Racing's (RTR) World Challenge engines. They're certified in the labs and race-proven on the track.


For reference, the Toda spring checked out at:

Toda Intake
70 lbf at 1.587", valve closed
213 lbf at 1.078", valve open

The intake spring only has .052" of clearance between full lift and coil bind so we cannot run any more lift than what we currently have with IPS-K2's if Toda springs are to be used.

Toda Exhaust
70 lbf at 1.587", valve closed
193 lbf at 1.135", valve open

Eibach specs:

Intake (Ti retainers)
Outer
56 lbf at 1.575"
159 lbf at 1.089"

Inner
27 lbf at 1.408"
65 lbf at 0.922"

Total
83 lbf
224 lbf

Exhaust (Ti retainers)
Outer
56 lbf at 1.575"
146 lbf at 1.146"

Inner
27 lbf at 1.408"
60 lbf at 0.979"

Total
83 lbf
206 lbf


The OEM steel retainer will work with the Eibach spring but we suggest only using them in a race application because the installed heights are so low that the valve open wire stress is pretty high - the springs will have a reduced life.

Flat steel retainer with Eibach spring at 1.590" outer installed height is good to 9200 rpm.

Dished steel retainer with Eibach spring at 1.625" outer installed height is good to 8900 rpm.



Finally, here are the specs for the OEM valvetrain combo.

Intake Outer
56 lbf at 1.625"
179 lbf at 1.116"

Intake Inner
18 lbf at 1.450"
64 lbf at 0.941"

Intake total
74 lbf valve closed
243 lbf valve open

Exhaust Outer
56 lbf at 1.625"
163 lbf at 1.173"

Exhaust Inner
18 lbf at 1.450"
58 lbf at 0.998"

Exhaust total
74 lbf valve closed
221 lbf valve open


The OEM combo uses a higher spring force lower natural frequency approach and the Toda spring uses a higher natural frequency lower spring force approach. The Eibach spring uses the same strategy as the Toda spring, except it is a dual-spring application. Both Eibach springs were designed with high natural frequencies and to work together.

Hopefully this information will help you with your decision.

-Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #5
edo said:
Flat steel retainer with Eibach spring at 1.590" outer installed height is good to 9200 rpm.

Dished steel retainer with Eibach spring at 1.625" outer installed height is good to 8900 rpm.


-Ron
Wow too much info.

Which retainer do you have Flat or Dished? So the flat steel retainer would be safe to rev 9200 rpm? Could I rev it that high or do I have to lower it down a bit to be safe?
Relialbility a factor with this combo?
Any Valve recommendation? OR stock will do?

Thanks.
 

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If you're going to rev to 9200 you'll need to bulletproof your short block. Reliability is measured over time and we don't have the data for Eibachs with OEM retainers yet, only with Ti retainers.

For the most part stick with stock valves. Otherwise, you'll need to indicate your goals and intended application before we can answer your question.

-Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So, the Reliability with the Ti/retainers are good?
The goal here is,

1. Daily driven, Reliability over power.

2. 260/250 whp (For now no buttom end work)

3. No auto/road race, just every other weekend drag racing for fun.

4. Something that will hit low 13 sec w/ kpro, header, exhaust, intake and cams in a 2700 lb car. I know it depends on a lot of factor.


Thanks for the info...
 

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You're going to have a tough time hitting your power goals without touching the bottom end if you're talking about Dynojet.

We hit 13.1 weighing 2950 with slicks. At the time, this was done ITR cams/PRC manifold/Comptech RH/catback exhaust/Hondata custom tuning.

Others weighing less have done even better with the same mods - 12.8 in a DC5. So, your 1/4 mile goals are easily attainable with the typical bolt-ons. However, your hp goal isn't realistic (dynojet).

-Ron
 

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I might as well jump in here while we're at it.

So the IPS cams will fit a K24A2 head according to the IPS site and Ron from IPS. However there is no mention of valve springs for the K24A2 head. The part numbers for the K24A2 valve springs and retainers are different from both the 01-04 RSX and 05- RSX.

I believe the OEM valve springs suggested are the S2000 valve springs, correct?

Any idea wether the stock TSX spring setup will be up to snuff given the lower reving engine? Or will the OEM S2000 springs suggested or Eibach springs fit the TSX head properly?

thanks,

Pascal
 

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TSX valvetrain is not sufficient to run any of the aftermarket K20A(2) cams. First, the spring seats (locators) are narrower in diameter. So, you'd need to swap those out for K20A(2) parts and run the appropriate valvetrain recommended for any of the aftermarket cams. We've listed our specs above. The OEM valvetrain combo consists not only of the S2000 (yellow) spring, but it also specifies the usage of the K20A(2) exhaust inner red spring - topped off with the dished retainer. This is to be used both intake and exhaust.

-Ron
 

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edo said:
TSX valvetrain is not sufficient to run any of the aftermarket K20A(2) cams. First, the spring seats (locators) are narrower in diameter. So, you'd need to swap those out for K20A(2) parts and run the appropriate valvetrain recommended for any of the aftermarket cams. We've listed our specs above. The OEM valvetrain combo consists not only of the S2000 (yellow) spring, but it also specifies the usage of the K20A(2) exhaust inner red spring - topped off with the dished retainer. This is to be used both intake and exhaust.

-Ron
thanks Ron,

Didn't think the valve train would hold up. I did not realize the springs seats were different though. Thanks for the info, I will let you know about the cams then.

Pascal
 

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to help answer the original question, there are a couple of us running IPS K2 cams with TODA valve springs, based on IPS' analysis (and you need to make sure you have the OEM flat steel retainers, or I believe the Skunk2 Ti ones will also work for the TODA springs). I have my fuel cutoff set at 8600 rpm and have pushed it there several times. really no need to rev higher than that because your power band starts dropping off after 8K, plus then you need to consider bottom-end upgrades.

you won't approach 250 whp unless you're referring to hp measured on a Dynapack. But the K2's are all about area under the curve, not just a peak number. what you feel on the low cam is nothing short of amazing.

So the combo in question will work just fine for a daily driver. for a serious race application go with the EVS setup Ron is recommending.
 

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ok, im going to post here b/c when i start a thread a rarely get answers.. haha.. looks like ill be coming into some money sooner than planned... i want to put the IPS's into my K24a2 sooner than planned.. in order to do so i must 1>>>> _____________________
2.__________________________
3.__________________________

haha fill in the blanks edo.. hehe or whomever else.. stock block.. i read i have to change the VTC sprocket??to the type-s one? and the valve seats?? more detailed instructions would definitely make my purchase a whole-hearted one with all the right direction going into it.. *_*

PS i read the valve seat things etc.. so i just want a abbreviated list.. hehe no neeed for super long explinations :cool:
 
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