[EvaUnit01]

First off this is my first post here and wanted to say hi. I have been doing research on both NA setups and FI setups for my K20A3 for some time now (MI4K20, you know I can't make up my mind sometimes.) and while I was leaning more and more toward turbo I found out that NA with the A3 block is actually very promising. I have a complete ported and polished Type S head, Type R intake manifold, Type S throttle body, Type R pistons and Rods, Type S ECU. I talked to Doug from Hondata today and he had this to say:

The A3 rods are weaker then the A2 - and it is revs that normally kill them. If you want to stay NA, compression is low with the A3 pistons and I would recommend aftermarket high compression pistons - such as 12:1 and rods. Combined with the Type S head and type R intake + some race headers it should fly. At high rpm, 9000 + and in racing conditions the stock pistons fail.

So it is true that the crank can handle higher revs (although i'm not going up to 9k, just staying stock A2 rev limit) I think the Type R pistons would be best, they are forged and can handle more heat and stress than the A3 pistons so NA is looking very good now.

 

[MI4K20]

Hey Brian. whats up ..yeah i thought you were going turbo..yeah iwas going to turbo my rsx-s but i just bought me a gutted EG shell and im going to be the first in teh 757 area with K24/k20. Havent seen you on our board in awhile...

anyways welcome to K20a.org and i would say replace the crank with a Type S crank or ITR crank. if you are going to put in pistons and rods might as well replace the crank, but ive always heard that Honda always makes the cranks forged..not sure on that though.

 

[EvaUnit01]

Thanks for the welcome man, I was going turbo but I kinda think Doug converted me per se. See, you're just like me, you've had trouble in the past figuring out what to do too. What board are you talking about? MI4? ClubRSX? I'm blocked from Clubrsx...AGAIN. And i remember trying to post on Mi-4 and people were kinda like "eh". Gonna be the first in the 757? Don't count your chickens, I can get a K24 motor for 1000 but I might stick with the k20a3 block. I've heard that the cranks on all hondas are pretty tough but it's the pistons and rods that are the weakest link(goodbye!) And I trust Doug with that kind of information. But here's the kicker, the Type S head I have is ported and polished...drool...

 

[nikos]

Welcome to the site.

From what I understand, you have a complete type S head (polished) but are not sure if you should put it on the A3 or the k24a.

If you buy type r pistons + rods, you are looking at how much $$ compared to the k24a complete longlblock?

Also the k20a3 has no oil squirters and smaller water passages. For forged pistons you don;t need them, but why does the k20a R has them?

Also are you going to pay someone to do the labor?

Finally it seems to me that the k20a3/k20a2 head initially "might have more" power and the k24a/k20a3 wil have it from the start till 6800 with stock internals.

I have read many people comments about revving high and all that, but it seems to me that the potential for growth is better with the k24a with type S. What better example than the 300whp HASPORT integra k24a/k20a2 with Jackson supercharger. That car almost matched the skyline by like 4 seconds. If you want to stay N/A, you are going to have to spent major money to get to 300whp... I am sure you know that... But at least it is possible.. with the k20a3, I don;t see it.

really depends on your goals, funds and dreams

Here's is something you need to read , taken from honda tech

this dude posted this entitled "Driving impressions! k24 powered EP3. (Electron Blue Blur)"

Welp,as some of you know,i kinda had a lil "problem " with my a3,and recently replaced it with a k24 out of a CRV,and added a K Pro to tune it.....Well,i havent even tuned the thing yet,and let me tell you...This thing makes GOBS of tq,down low,and through the midrange.....I havent EVER enjoyed my car this much before,and i havent even thought about pushing it yet,since its untuned.....The swap was very straight forward,and i only had to use a CRV upper pass side mount to get it to fit properly.I used the k20s IM/Ex Mani,tranny,clutch and flywheel,so it ended up being VERY cost effective.There were no mods required to the harness either,it is a plug and play swap........I highly recommend this motor to anyone that wants to swap,and cant afford the cost of a k20a or a2.It should be very easy to hit 170whp/160ish tq with bolt ons and the K pro.Shoot,thats like an a2 with an intake,but a LOT more tq,for half the price.........anyhow,this swap gets the :thumbup: from me,and it would be a great starting point for someone ready to ditch the a3 and not go broke in the process.. =)

[/quote]

 

[EvaUnit01]

Thanks for the welcome nikos, I can get Type R oversized pistons for 360 shipped and forged rods for 400. No labor pay involved, my father in law got a deal going on, one of his friends owes him a favor and will do the install for free. I wasn't really planning on going to 300whp, 210-220whp is fine with me. I'm also looking into getting a k24 (CRV) engine as well and do the head swap.

 

[nikos]

Thanks for the welcome nikos, I can get Type R oversized pistons for 360 shipped and forged rods for 400. No labor pay involved, my father in law got a deal going on, one of his friends owes him a favor and will do the install for free. I wasn't really planning on going to 300whp, 210-220whp is fine with me. I'm also looking into getting a k24 (CRV) engine as well and do the head swap.

And you have a RSX base or a Civic EP3?

 

[MANNJ]

i agree with EvaUnit01. just because of the simple fact that i have a type s head, type r pistions and a type r crank in my 03 si. it isnt running right yet b/c i cant afford the hondata reflash yet, but when i get that ill be blowing a local turbo rsx out of the water. he is pushing 295 hp (dyno tuned) and ill be revving to 9100 rpm with 250+ hp.

the k24/k20 swap that everyone is doing/wanting to do is cool, if you want to be like a domestic. it revs to 6800 rpm and then power and torque drop like a 2$ hoe. besides, 300 hp out of that setup you nee a whloe lot of stuff; clutch, axels, lsd, motor mounts, thats about $3000 alone. i mean, hell your half way to getting a complete type r motor!!

 

[EvaUnit01]

nikos - I have a base rsx 5 speed.

MANNJ - What kind of rods are you using for your setup? I'm interested to find out b/c if I stick with the K20a3 block i'm going to want better rods.

 

[EvaUnit01]

almost forgot nikos, no offense, but what was the point of asking about the oil squirters when you said:

Also the k20a3 has no oil squirters and smaller water passages. For forged pistons you don;t need them, but why does the k20a R has them?

MANNJ-how much did you get your Type R crank for?

 

[EvaUnit01]

Posting once again but MANNJ, take a look at some of the dyno charts for a K24 with K20 head. The power curve is amazing and quite linear. There is no drop off in power on the dyno charts that I have seen even on a stock K24 motor and these engines (K24) are capable of revving to 8K with no problem. Slap on a JRSC onto that and your talking about in the high 280-290whp range with a linear power curve. They had a K24/K20 with JRSC in an integra and it kept up with a skyline, how's that for impressive?

 

[nikos]

I don't think the K20A Integra Type R pistons are forged. The pistons have a chromoly skirt but are not forged. Therefor you would need oil squirters unless you take the "I don't really care" LS/VTEC" approach (if you are using the k20a3 block)

 

[EvaUnit01]

Well, I'm looking into getting a K24 right now but I'm still trying to find out if the Type R pistons will fit the K24, hope they do.

 

[MI4K20]

sorry Brian the itr pistons do not fit the k24 the boare is to big. But they are making some pistons for teh k24 off the shelve though you can put in the motor. the k24 motor is the shit. but i would just go for the tsx motor and call it a day..the best of both worlds

 

[SchueString Racing]

CP makes pistons for the K24. The valve reliefs are much deeper than stock so you would be able to run some decently aggressive cams with them.

 

[JasonMann]

Posting once again but MANNJ, take a look at some of the dyno charts for a K24 with K20 head. The power curve is amazing and quite linear. There is no drop off in power on the dyno charts that I have seen even on a stock K24 motor and these engines (K24) are capable of revving to 8K with no problem. Slap on a JRSC onto that and your talking about in the high 280-290whp range with a linear power curve. They had a K24/K20 with JRSC in an integra and it kept up with a skyline, how's that for impressive?

im running stock ep3 pistons right now, but ill be getting golden eagle soon, only like $400 bucks. but about the k24. ive looked at dyno charts of the hasport/jackson racing rsx-s with the k24/k20a2 head and supercharger and at about 6800 rpm, the piston to wall speeds are so fast that they are moving faster than today's f1 cars. that was in super street (i believe, maybe import tuner). on the dyno chart in that mag, the power and torque dropped off, and quick. by 7100 rpm there was almost no power at all.

 

[JasonMann]

im sorry, that last post was for EvaUnit01

 

[jdmzeal18]

grr soo confusing!!.....i want high revs!...but i want torque as well!....how safe do u guys think this hybrid k20/k24 set up is???....dats my biggest concern....i dont want to have that b20 vtech issue of breaking easily....the piston speed is a big issue....so is it safe or not?

 

[Professor15]

grr soo confusing!!.....i want high revs!...but i want torque as well!....how safe do u guys think this hybrid k20/k24 set up is???....dats my biggest concern....i dont want to have that b20 vtech issue of breaking easily....the piston speed is a big issue....so is it safe or not?

What B20vtec issue? the only issue there is jackass owners who rev the piss out of stock b20vtec like if it was b16 or poor engine builders/tuners. Whats the point of revving so high if the only thing you are doing is getting closer to blowing your engine up? Pistons to wall speeds faster than F1 cars? post some sheets up of these "pistons to wall speeds" K20/k24 engine set-up seems to be a good set-up the only thing i see a downside too is the low compression which can be solved by some Tsx pistons, thinner head gasket and flat top valves.

 

[tinkerbell]

grr soo confusing!!.....i want high revs!...but i want torque as well!....how safe do u guys think this hybrid k20/k24 set up is???....dats my biggest concern....i dont want to have that b20 vtech issue of breaking easily....the piston speed is a big issue....so is it safe or not?

What B20vtec issue? the only issue there is jackass owners who rev the piss out of stock b20vtec like if it was b16 or poor engine builders/tuners. Whats the point of revving so high if the only thing you are doing is getting closer to blowing your engine up? Pistons to wall speeds faster than F1 cars? post some sheets up of these "pistons to wall speeds" K20/k24 engine set-up seems to be a good set-up the only thing i see a downside too is the low compression which can be solved by some Tsx pistons, thinner head gasket and flat top valves.

so witht he K24/K20, do you know if the TSX piston/rod fits?

or is the crank different too? meaning you need the crank as well?

BTW - i had a B20VTEC that i reved to and made power to 8400rpm, i circut raced it and just had ARP insurance,

it is not the 'what' - but the 'how' that is the problem...