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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The purpose of this topic is not to teach you how to scam dynos.. Instead, I am trying to educate people on the subject of dynos... I mean, you see a shop selling a header.. It says we made this much... untuned... or this much tuned etc... Hopefully this discussion will help you become more knowlegable on the subject of dynos.

Well, in case you don't know.. it is possible to make a dyno give bigger numbers on a single run.. How bigger? Well, I was told around 10 , even 15 whp is possible...

The K series engine is very sensitive to temperature. A few people recently gave me their theories on how that is possible..

I don't want to spread misinformation, so I am going to let k20a.org users share their experiences.

Hopefully Joetypes will give us a pretty good analysis on what we should expect from a reliable dyno run.

Nikos
 

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Punishin' Bitches
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I know with mustang dynos at least, you could make it seem higher by entering a different gear ratio for your car then what it really is.

For dynapacks, theres setting which make the numbers as close to real life as possible. By messing with the settings you can also skew the numbers. Or so as i see it.
 

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There are many ways to inflate dyno numbers on EVERY dyno out there. On dynos that allow the operator to enter things like weight, correction factor, temp, alt, etc.. this is very easy. Mustang, DynoDynamics, clayton, and dynapak are all VERY VERY easy to minipulate into producing whatever number you want.

DynoJet is by far the hardest to manipulate FROM the dyno control itself. In fact, I would trust a video taped dyno run on a dynojet over any other dyno to show gains, loss, etc..HOWEVER, if you take a dyno run file and alter it after the pass is made you can make it give any number you want.

Let me show you an example using nothing but the WinPep software and notepad

First here's a dyno run I did with my old TSX header DYNORUN.018 200 whp


Now I made a copy of this file and called it DYNORUN.182 and opened it in notepad....I then edited the highlighted block below (in .018 the real dyno run it read 9.56 I changed that to 25.56)


A quick save and reopen in WinPEP and you have this "awesome gain" of some companies new header, exhuast, tuning, etc.. and tons of people buy buy buy.


Now if you're a smart person you'll say "That's fake the curves are too identical, a power change that good wouldn't maintain the same dips" see this REAL dyno of a power change from my old header to my new header (notice the dips are smoother in the higher dyno, and it creates a nicer curve)



BUT how would anyone ever know your dyno isn't legit if you just post something like this (as sooo many people have):


You have no idea it's a lie and you want to buy whatever that person is selling.

And for those who say "Well you'd be able to tell if it was fake if you had them show the run conditions" Well, no you wouldn't look here:



SO WHAT'S THE MORAL? Easy, don't allow anyone to post a dyno trying to sell a product if they don't give you a before AND after chart, and make sure to pay attention to the curves, with any significant power increase the curve is going to change at least a little


Hope I was helpful
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That is great and that is just the begining... Stay tuned and we will tell you how to make more power on a dyno run by messing around with engine temperature.

Joe that was by far the post of the year!!

You just won a k20a.org T shirt :) ( almost ready for sale )

 

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nikos said:
That is great and that is just the begining... Stay tuned and we will tell you how to make more power on a dyno run by messing around with engine temperature.

Joe that was by far the post of the year!!

You just won a k20a.org T shirt :) ( almost ready for sale )

i like... :wink:
 

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Great post joe
 

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Ekasey said:
Great post joe
Good info, i didn't realize it was sooo easy to manipulate. I will look more carefully at dyno posts from now on.

Now my question is, When i go to get my car tuned, what kind of dyno should i do it on? I don't want to end up with fake numbers. I realize in this case people are trying to sell a header, but i want the right numbers for my car.
 

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nikos said:
That is great and that is just the begining... Stay tuned and we will tell you how to make more power on a dyno run by messing around with engine temperature.
Damnit! What about me? LOL
 

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drhonda said:
Ekasey said:
Great post joe
Good info, i didn't realize it was sooo easy to manipulate. I will look more carefully at dyno posts from now on.

Now my question is, When i go to get my car tuned, what kind of dyno should i do it on? I don't want to end up with fake numbers. I realize in this case people are trying to sell a header, but i want the right numbers for my car.
Well when getting your car tuned, the only real import thing to pay attention to is the baseline (initial run) and the end run. So the correction factor, etc.. don't really matter. The dyno can be inflating HP by 20 as long as it is inflated by 20 on all runs you'll be able to see the difference from the tune. The thing you should be careful of most is if you're tuning on anything but a dyno jet that the correction factors (weight, gear, temp, alt, etc..) aren't changed durring your time there. This usually isn't a problem unless you goto a shady tuner. DynoJet prevents the operator from entering bogus info like 150% humidity or something.

You shouldn't be too concerned with the numbers as you are with the difference. I could dyno your car at 150whp baseline and tune it to 175whp. Or the initial numbers could be 200 and 225, either way you gained 25 whp from the tune/header/whatever you're testing. You understand what i'm saying? Dynos are instruments used to measure changes.

So when you go to a dyno take 2-3 baseline pulls (change nothing) make sure that the dyno has repeatability and that the pulls are within 2whp usually. If your baseline pulls range like 10whp it's going to be very hard to have an effective tuning session.

PS - I don't think anyone should panic or be overly worried that their dyno operators are going to inflate numbers. But I have seen it happen.
 

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joestypes said:
drhonda said:
Ekasey said:
Great post joe
Good info, i didn't realize it was sooo easy to manipulate. I will look more carefully at dyno posts from now on.

Now my question is, When i go to get my car tuned, what kind of dyno should i do it on? I don't want to end up with fake numbers. I realize in this case people are trying to sell a header, but i want the right numbers for my car.
Well when getting your car tuned, the only real import thing to pay attention to is the baseline (initial run) and the end run. So the correction factor, etc.. don't really matter. The dyno can be inflating HP by 20 as long as it is inflated by 20 on all runs you'll be able to see the difference from the tune. The thing you should be careful of most is if you're tuning on anything but a dyno jet that the correction factors (weight, gear, temp, alt, etc..) aren't changed durring your time there. This usually isn't a problem unless you goto a shady tuner. DynoJet prevents the operator from entering bogus info like 150% humidity or something.

You shouldn't be too concerned with the numbers as you are with the difference. I could dyno your car at 150whp baseline and tune it to 175whp. Or the initial numbers could be 200 and 225, either way you gained 25 whp from the tune/header/whatever you're testing. You understand what i'm saying? Dynos are instruments used to measure changes.

So when you go to a dyno take 2-3 baseline pulls (change nothing) make sure that the dyno has repeatability and that the pulls are within 2whp usually. If your baseline pulls range like 10whp it's going to be very hard to have an effective tuning session.

PS - I don't think anyone should panic or be overly worried that their dyno operators are going to inflate numbers. But I have seen it happen.
I understand what your saying. Basically there is a starting point on the motor, lets say stock. Then you add headers, etc.. dyno it again and you can see the difference in hp. The graph should change at low end and high end because of if it flows better or whatevr. Its wherever you want to make the power. :wink: Thanks.
 

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the problem is there are a few guys that post up results with single runs on a graph saying that they make huge power.. But when guys like me actually put these part on our cars and run them they dont actually make the power.
I know there are alot of tricks on even Dyna-packs that help make HP. the easiest is moving the temp sensor closer to the motor, the hotter the sensor the high the Hp..
 

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non vtec said:
the problem is there are a few guys that post up results with single runs on a graph saying that they make huge power..
Exactly I've seen dynos (same brand, same model) vary 5-10whp from eachother...so what does that mean when all you can do is post a run of you making 220whp but have no baseline to compare it to? It should mean jack, but too many people don't understand enough about dynos.
 

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All dynos can be manipulated in some way, even dynojet, BUT you really cant TUNE a car with a dynojet. With the exception of their new conversion unit, they dont have loading capability. They are simply a measure of inertia. Dynodynamics, mustang, and others all allow speed control to properly tune a car.

I guess the point of my post is just simply to research a dyno facility that you plan to use. Find out everything you can about them, and make sure that they will allow you to be present during the dyno session to insure that you are getting accurate numbers. As far as parts go, everyone out there is going to try and make a buck...a part that increases power by 10.45HP will become an advertised 11hp gain. I personally dont rely on any manufacturer claims...again, research the product with other people and find their experiences
 

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wsuk20 said:
All dynos can be manipulated in some way, even dynojet, BUT you really cant TUNE a car with a dynojet. With the exception of their new conversion unit, they dont have loading capability. They are simply a measure of inertia. Dynodynamics, mustang, and others all allow speed control to properly tune a car.

I guess the point of my post is just simply to research a dyno facility that you plan to use. Find out everything you can about them, and make sure that they will allow you to be present during the dyno session to insure that you are getting accurate numbers. As far as parts go, everyone out there is going to try and make a buck...a part that increases power by 10.45HP will become an advertised 11hp gain. I personally dont rely on any manufacturer claims...again, research the product with other people and find their experiences
DynoJet's are fine for WOT tuning. For partial you need either the new DynoJet add on, another type of dyno or street tuning.
 

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nikos said:
That is great and that is just the begining... Stay tuned and we will tell you how to make more power on a dyno run by messing around with engine temperature.

Joe that was by far the post of the year!!

You just won a k20a.org T shirt :) ( almost ready for sale )

Those shirts are badass!!! Can they be purchased or are they only for people who win them?
 
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