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Interesting article describing the capabilities of the Kpro as well as giving a before and after result of tuning on a stock K20A2. Scanned it for everyone since Racecar Engineering is a British magazine and if you can find it at all it costs about $10...

Here are the scans (I got them down to about 200k each) -
http://www.k20a.org/upload/kpropage1.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/upload/kpropage2.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/upload/kpropage3.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/upload/kpropage4.jpg

Hope you guys enjoy!
 

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Oh dear.....

there are more inacuracies than you can shake a stick at!

Just from page one,

197PS - Err - NO, it's quoted by Honda as 200PS
Cast Iron Block - Err - since when is the K20A's Block cast Iron?
No mention of the JDM's having different CR's to EU engines

FFS, you would think that if you were going to publish an artical like this you would do the reasearch and get the details correct...

It's depressing how much b0ll0cks is published these days..
 

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Scuffers said:
Oh dear.....

there are more inacuracies than you can shake a stick at!

Just from page one,

197PS - Err - NO, it's quoted by Honda as 200PS
Cast Iron Block - Err - since when is the K20A's Block cast Iron?
No mention of the JDM's having different CR's to EU engines

FFS, you would think that if you were going to publish an artical like this you would do the reasearch and get the details correct...

It's depressing how much b0ll0cks is published these days..
you have to look at the big picture, Simon.

The K20 again uses an open-deck, die-cast aluminum block with cast-in iron cylinder liners

The people writing these articles are journalists. A while back in hondatuning here in the USA, they wrote that you can use a s2000 head on a K series block.. but these are really details.

The fact is that hondata k pro has been proven more than enough. AS you also noticed CPL racing who is behind this article is one of the biggest if not the only hondata dealer. I was told in greece that K pro sells for around 1500 euro from CPL.
 

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nikos said:
you have to look at the big picture, Simon.

The K20 again uses an open-deck, die-cast aluminum block with cast-in iron cylinder liners

The people writing these articles are journalists. A while back in hondatuning here in the USA, they wrote that you can use a s2000 head on a K series block.. but these are really details.

The fact is that hondata k pro has been proven more than enough. AS you also noticed CPL racing who is behind this article is one of the biggest if not the only hondata dealer. I was told in greece that K pro sells for around 1500 euro from CPL.
Not the point,

if you are going to write for a technical publication, then what's so F****** hard about getting your facts right?

one visit to Honda's own web-pages would have corrected most of that stuff..

As for the block, I am still not conviced about the liners, and as soon as I have some time, I will check one, from memory, they look nothing like iron to me, but I will check this.

As for CPL, they are far from the only Hondata dealer in the UK, there are quite a few. CPL make big claims about their capabilities, the others are somewhat quieter (I have never delt with CPL, so I have no idea how good/bad they are).

As for the Hondata K-Pro, I was not making comment on it, just the bad writing of the artical.
 

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Scuffers said:
As for the block, I am still not conviced about the liners, and as soon as I have some time, I will check one, from memory, they look nothing like iron to me, but I will check this.

They are iron. The reason why I insist is because:

http://www.sae.org/automag/globalvehicles/06-2001/global2.htm

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadtests/0107scc_acura/

http://hondata.com/racecar/racereports.htm

http://www.exiges.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=29163&Main=27673
Simon Joyce's office at Jenvey .. Is that you Simon?

Hondatuning recent article




Just trying to save you some time :)

Nikos[/quote]
 

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Right,

back to linners then!

sorry, but if you read thouse links, you either get that they are cast-in or pressed in, now, how the hell do you 'cast-in' an iron liner to an ali block?

pressed in makes more sence...(I am 100% sure thats how they are fitted).

as for what they are made of, I'm going to pull one out of a block I have as soon as I get a moment... no problem, I *want* to do this now!

Last comment about Jenvey, the engine they have that is being talked about is an F20C (S2000) Mr. Eland is, as usual, talking b0ll0cks..

Simon Joyce is not me, he works for Jenvey Dynamics...
 

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nikos said:
Scuffers said:
As for the block, I am still not conviced about the liners, and as soon as I have some time, I will check one, from memory, they look nothing like iron to me, but I will check this.

http://www.exiges.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=29163&Main=27673
Simon Joyce's office at Jenvey .. Is that you Simon?


Nikos
[/quote]


The K20 that SimonE is going on about was in fact an FC20 with a failed oil pump which had then picked up.

So what are the liners in the FC20 made out of ;)
 

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Scuffers said:
sorry, but if you read thouse links, you either get that they are cast-in or pressed in, now, how the hell do you 'cast-in' an iron liner to an ali block?

pressed in makes more sence...(I am 100% sure thats how they are fitted).

...
They're cast in not pressed in. They've been cast in since they started making Aluminum blocks. A mold is used and the mold holds them in place. If you saw one of the sleeves out of a block you would realize there is no way in hell you could press one in without damaging the aluminum.

I was a little disappointed in the factual errors in the article too.

brian g
 

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They're cast in not pressed in.
I'm not sure. In Aug I went to the Honda plant where they make the V6 and D17 engines, and I'm sure I saw raw engine blocks without liners. There was an inspection stage at which the reject blocks had no iron and could be recycled easily. After the liners etc it was harder to recycle the blocks. On the other hand, I remember that the B20 had liners with a pattern around the back which must have been cast in. Don't know how you'd stop the aluminum shrinking back as it cooled. But then, there was so much stuff that it was hard to focus on one thing when you're rolling past complete skips of rejects heads etc (send some our way!). The engine blocks were cast under a lot of pressure - many thousands of tons. Other interesting things we saw was the machine to insert all the valve seats at once in about 1/4 of a second, a machine to bore and tap all the holes on one face of a cylinder head at once (in about 1 second), a machine to measure all the bores in about 20 places for taper and out of round to high accuracy. It was an interesting visit. The only sad thing is all that material and effort being put into D17 engines - it seems a crying shame since the D17 is not a great engine.

Back to the article - good article, if not a surprise to us. Guy @ CPL does a good job and deserves the credit. As far as accuracy goes, everything about Hondata was fairly accurate. Just a couple of slips like the K20 iron block.

Good for 400 hp? There's a couple of people who have broken 550 dynojet hp on the K motor, and the block has to be good for 800-900 hp. Still got a way to go to catch up with the B - talked with someone today making 840 hp with a small shot of n2o.

Edit: confirmed that the liners are cast in.
 

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Rubber Chicken said:
Back to the article - good article, if not a surprise to us. Guy @ CPL does a good job and deserves the credit. As far as accuracy goes, everything about Hondata was fairly accurate. Just a couple of slips like the K20 iron block.

Good for 400 hp? There's a couple of people who have broken 550 dynojet hp on the K motor, and the block has to be good for 800-900 hp. Still got a way to go to catch up with the B - talked with someone today making 840 hp with a small shot of n2o.

Edit: confirmed that the liners are cast in.
I think the good for 400 was an accurate statement had he got the part right about the alloy block. Stock block and 400 hp seemed fairly sustainable in my experience with our first turbo car.

As for the top potential, I've talked to someone recently claiming 1100 hp. I have no reason to doubt him but he doesn't want to come forward yet. His car will start hitting the track around February.


brian g
 
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