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Public Service Announcement: Diabetes is bad... do whatever you can to avoid it.

I spent most of the weekend adding hand rails to my inlaws home because my FIL lost a toe to diabetes. So not a lot of time on the car. BUT I did spend some quality time in the garage, thanks to my wife and her understanding!

I learned several things with my other car... one of them is plan out your use of lexan/poly methodically. second is... use rivnuts and not pop rivets. track side lexan removal should be as easy as possible and in a manner that shouldnt possible damage the lexan as its expensive.

The rear glass is the worst to do... it will take the longest to plan. you want to make sure you arent popping too many pinch welds and that you are putting rivnuts (or pop rivets if you really want) into flat metal. As always, seal your drilled holes with paint... AND if you use rivnuts, practice on flat metal and make sure your settings are good on your rivnut or pop rivet gun.

One of the biggest challenges of the rear glass is how to attach it along the bottom. Its a very thin metal, its not flat or large... missing or measuring incorrectly is easily done. On this car i decided to rivet aluminum tabs in to hold my rivnuts. it will give me a uniform look and make it easy to remove the glass if needed (and yes i have had to do it)
View attachment 107069

This is what the rivnut should look like when compressed...
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If you are paranoid like me... or have ever had to deal with a failed rivnut... you add a little JBweld to the base so it wont fail after your race car shakes them to death.

View attachment 107071

Also to match... i did rivnuts for the hood vents. yes i used a lot of rivnuts, but the shape of the hood dictated that. I'll post more pics once this snow goes away.
View attachment 107072

I did some other things... like build the mount for the fire suppression bottle and remove my wing for sanding and painting... no... i dont have any pics of that yet. maybe later.
What brand of rivnut kit do you use ? Looks like a clean fit 👍
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
The generation civic you have has a oem metal plate that goes to the upper front strut towers. I bought that oem piece for $5 just to have in case if I could recreate it but stronger. Since you have a cage installed, stitch welding in certain areas maybe something to entertain once you have everything up and running. Of course it would have to be determined if it is actually needed or not.

Project build is looking good bro.
well i've never thought a "strut" bar did much good on any of my cars ... outside my OLD Mk2 Scirocco. And the ones that did the most work were the front lower and the rear (which had poly bushings instead of the OEM rubber).

the 8th gen does have the OEM sheet metal "bar" that connects to the firewall and the strut towers... with 10 and 12mm bolts. its not substantial at all. the more i study the front end (literally laying on my back and looking at things) the more its apparent that the lower subframe is "over engineered" to keep things in place. If the actual upper part of the strut tower is weak (which i had on my other car) there are some "easy" fixes... but just stitch welding things here and there tends to cause issues, where you really strengthen one section and it will move the stress to another section. overall i'm not convinced this car needs it with that lower subframe.

What brand of rivnut kit do you use ? Looks like a clean fit 👍
i use this kit off amazon...

i used a bunch of the kit supplied rivnuts to learn the tool and practice... there are some also on the car. and then i reloaded with McMasterCar zinc plated ones to match what i had. the tool is okay... takes some time to get used to. if you over tighten it you will break the mandrel (and i have done that). so i practiced a bunch on sheet metal where I could see both sides and got a feel for it. I stll put a dab of JB weld on the back when i'm done just to be safe.

this tool is okay overall but it wont fit into a tight area (which i need for my wifes jeep)... i had to replace my rivet gun recently and i purchased a small Arrow gun... it was so great i wish they made a rivnut tool... but they dont. for tight spots i'll likely setting for the nut/bolt rivnut tool, they arent the best and will take much more practice i think.
 
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the 8th gen does have the OEM sheet metal "bar" that connects to the firewall and the strut towers... with 10 and 12mm bolts. its not substantial at all.
right. I was thinking improving the design with a much stronger and rigid application.

I have always benefited from front upper strut bars, lower front bars, upper rear strut bars, harness bars. each time I installed one I could always tell a difference afterwards. The fact you have a proper cage built, welded, means you would not notice these changes I suggested of a improved UFSB. I was just throwing that out there.

Something else I was thinking about, in your race class are you allowed to remove the upper dashboard/cowl area to vent out the engine bay?
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
right. I was thinking improving the design with a much stronger and rigid application.

I have always benefited from front upper strut bars, lower front bars, upper rear strut bars, harness bars. each time I installed one I could always tell a difference afterwards. The fact you have a proper cage built, welded, means you would not notice these changes I suggested of a improved UFSB. I was just throwing that out there.

Something else I was thinking about, in your race class are you allowed to remove the upper dashboard/cowl area to vent out the engine bay?
i've been running data for a while... 8 years now i think... the only measurable "bolt in" stiffening item i've used (i havent used a harness bar alone) was a bolt in roll bar. obviously i have a cage, so i wont need to worry about that. as far as a rear strut bar itself, i had the bars welded in on this car... but it was because in a race application these cars run 1k-1.2k lbs springs in the back with a big bar, they put a lot of force through the tires so i want to make sure that are was strong for a long life.

we cant vent the engine bay into the cabin. most race organizations wont let that happen due to fire risks. I've also found that racing in the r*#n, the interior harness (and hondata in the b series car) would get excessively wet. i work to keep the firewall sealed up as best as i can. since the 8th gen comes with a bunch of rear plastic "aero" panels, i think its best to work on keeping the air flow as smooth as possible under the car (the extent possible).
 

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right on, since you have a cage what I mentioned about strut bars does not apply really that much.

Honestly it was not smart of me to mention "bolt-on" strut bars on your thread, hence you have a cage and have surpassed the effectiveness of typical "bolt-on" strengthening bars.
 

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I doubt i'll get much done with the car but you never know when your kid brother (former Porsche mechanic) comes into town.
Nice literature. How far did you read it?

Public Service Announcement: Diabetes is bad... do whatever you can to avoid it.
I spent most of the weekend adding hand rails to my inlaws home because my FIL lost a toe to diabetes.
That sounds like hard measure to cure the suffering of diabetes. FIL is father in law?

I ordered U88A hasport inserts and the Unit 2 weld it yourself baffle system. I will be using it instead of the TracTuff baffled 9th gen pan.
I am looking forward to hear from your experience with the Unit2 baffle system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Nice literature. How far did you read it?


That sounds like hard measure to cure the suffering of diabetes. FIL is father in law?

I am looking forward to hear from your experience with the Unit2 baffle system.
I ready it through the "specifications section"... because i have to live with this rule "9.4.1 Engines must be completely OEM and conform to the exact specifications found in the factory service manual"

this rule isnt exactly clear... but the rules committee has told me my A2 pump and a different pan are legal... so i can only mean it to specifically say it must conform to the specifications section... because if it meant the specifications in the engine section (which it has), i could be protested over torqued bolt values.

my mother and father were both diabetic ... healing from any wound is very difficult and infection is very easy. I personally eat under 50g of net carbs a day to just stay in the normal blood sugar level... my Father In Law (you are correct on the FIL) was unchecked.

I got some input from folks that said they had right hand pressure drops (up to 50 psi) and broken baffles with their tractuff stuff... they all went to Unit 2 and no one has a complaint. I dont want to pull the engine and/or subframe to swap pans... so i'm not risking it and i'm going with the Unit 2 and the hasport stiff setup to delete the rear mount.
 

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my mother and father were both diabetic ... healing from any wound is very difficult and infection is very easy. I personally eat under 50g of net carbs a day to just stay in the normal blood sugar level... my Father In Law (you are correct on the FIL) was unchecked.
It is hard to hear this is happening to both of your parents, I wish them good health and strength to continue pushing forward. I understand health issues all too well myself. I have heart disease - Afib, Hypertension 2, pulse disorder, and I take 3 strong heavy dosages of blood pressure & Afib medicine along with Liptor. This began to my knowledge and started receiving treatment 12 years ago when I was diagnosed with Sinus Tarsi Alignment Syndrome in both ankles & heal. This required double ankle fusions, and two additional reconstructive surgeries on my ankles. Four years ago I started developing tendonitis in both Achilles tendons and all six perrenial tendons. Monthly I have 10 Rx's to maintain and some months up to 12 Rx's. Life is weird, I always wish the best to those suffering from health issues. I hope your parents stay strong and healthy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
It is hard to hear this is happening to both of your parents, I wish them good health and strength to continue pushing forward. I understand health issues all too well myself. I have heart disease - Afib, Hypertension 2, pulse disorder, and I take 3 strong heavy dosages of blood pressure & Afib medicine along with Liptor. This began to my knowledge and started receiving treatment 12 years ago when I was diagnosed with Sinus Tarsi Alignment Syndrome in both ankles & heal. This required double ankle fusions, and two additional reconstructive surgeries on my ankles. Four years ago I started developing tendonitis in both Achilles tendons and all six perrenial tendons. Monthly I have 10 Rx's to maintain and some months up to 12 Rx's. Life is weird, I always wish the best to those suffering from health issues. I hope your parents stay strong and healthy.
my parents are no longer with us. but they didn't take their health seriously at all.

but i take my health very seriously (even though i'm still over weight... working on it)... if you want to enjoy life as we know it, we need to start taking our health much more serious. I have 4 meds and i'm trying to get down to 1... every medicine has a side effect that they will just give you another medicine for
 

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my parents are no longer with us. but they didn't take their health seriously at all.

but i take my health very seriously (even though i'm still over weight... working on it)... if you want to enjoy life as we know it, we need to start taking our health much more serious. I have 4 meds and i'm trying to get down to 1... every medicine has a side effect that they will just give you another medicine for
My condolences to the lose of your parents. I wish I could reduce the number of meds that I take, for what I have going on seems to be the bare minimal. It has been this way for awhile.
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
My condolences to the lose of your parents. I wish I could reduce the number of meds that I take, for what I have going on seems to be the bare minimal. It has been this way for awhile.
take care of yourself as best you can... My wife and racing are my motivation. I need to be healthy to live out our retirement dreams... and i need to be as healthy as i can to pass my race physicals.
 
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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
The 8th gen Civic was 100% designed to have the engine go out of the bottom. Mount design and even wire loom mounts all indicate (to me) that they never intended for me to do this... but whatever... we do it my way (typical).
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Thank God I keep chain around and have several cherry picker leveling systems. I guess i'll be keeping this system hooked up this way for the foreseeable future.

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I required a helping hand to get the hood up high enough to lift... Pulling engines alone... you do what you need to do.
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Between IG and Facebook (and text messages) i have gotten a lot of "why did you remove the engine!?!?" It was leaking oil (from the oil pan), the healthy motor does need a timing chain/tensioner, i have to swap oil pans and oil pumps... and i'm doing a gear stack and FD. Instead of dropping the subframe and working off my back (on cold concrete with tight spaces)... I'd rather do it on the bench and engine stand.

Speaking of the gear stack... Ryan at AutoFair Honda hooked it up (probably knowingly) with the 05-06 DC5R 4/5/6 gear stack... and a 05-06 RSX-S 6th gear... as we hunt for a FD. well as you know, i found a FD and its on the way. SO... its time to fix up the DC5R stack (off getting cryo treatment). Here is what the gearing will look like in the calculator.
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I finally got the other big block guys to fess up to the speed we will see at VIR... so we need to be around 135mph topped out. looks like that should happen without an issue. My redline can easily bump to 8500 if I need more space on the gears.

While there was space in the engine bay... i went to install my TL type S Master Cylinder for the TL type S calipers... obviously its not a drop in item... you need to massage the brake lines carefully. I like to use a screw driver handle (round) to gently change bends as needed. It helps keep you from kinking anything.
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SO... all you kids with Bomba Mounts... do not trust them. They arent designed for any abuse at all. They are a feel good measure and nothing more. In the long run they will not hold up. Go buy HaSport Mounts... no i'm not sponsored... yes i buy once and cry once. This mount is basically useless. its complete separated and the Bomba mount just masked the issue. 100% snake oil ... dont track your cars on these mounts.
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I am with you on pulling the engine to work on the oil pump /pan. After replacing mine on my back and scraping all that silicone laying down —NEVER again 😂. I’m lucky with my 97 chassis that it takes so much less work but I still have to dedicate a whole weekend to the oil pump job. Looks like your civic is coming along nicely , the z3 with a type s oil pump is something special 😃
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
RPMs kill motors. Diesels live a long time, partially because they dont rev. The A2 pump is just piece of mind. I really dont want to have think about more moving parts in the oil pump while road racing. for anyone that just strolled into this thread (lol)... in road racing we essentially stay in vtec for 30-45 minutes (in my race group) 2-4 times a day. We live near the rev limiter all the time in every gear. In a normal every day car, doing some pulls now and then to get onto the highway quick or mess with someone at a light, that balanced shaft pump is fine.... but signing the vtec song all its life is not what it was designed for. there is a reason the type R and type S didnt come with them... they rob power and they can fail easier when abused.

test driving the car was insane enough when it was on a stock pump and gears... I dont even know if i'll be able to drive it with the DC5R gears and a new FD.... i'm sure i will... plenty of folks do it... but coming from a B18C5... the stock car was light year faster.

I'm super excited and already wishing I went with more front tire 😆😆😆😆
 
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RPMs kill motors. Diesels live a long time, partially because they dont rev. The A2 pump is just piece of mind. I really dont want to have think about more moving parts in the oil pump while road racing. for anyone that just strolled into this thread (lol)... in road racing we essentially stay in vtec for 30-45 minutes (in my race group) 2-4 times a day. We live near the rev limiter all the time in every gear. In a normal every day car, doing some pulls now and then to get onto the highway quick or mess with someone at a light, that balanced shaft pump is fine.... but signing the vtec song all its life is not what it was designed for. there is a reason the type R and type S didnt come with them... they rob power and they can fail easier when abused.

test driving the car was insane enough when it was on a stock pump and gears... I dont even know if i'll be able to drive it with the DC5R gears and a new FD.... i'm sure i will... plenty of folks do it... but coming from a B18C5... the stock car was light year faster.

I'm super excited and already wishing I went with more front tire 😆😆😆😆
I bet the shorter gears really make the most of the z3. People who don’t know the B and K motors might think the B18c is pretty close in comparison being only .2 L smaller and similar HP numbers but it really is a world of difference. I loved all my B engines but there is no denying the massive performance upgrade that my k24 has given me. 6th gear at 1800 rpm the car will still take off on half throttle. Very addicting to display the torque 😂
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
I bet the shorter gears really make the most of the z3. People who don’t know the B and K motors might think the B18c is pretty close in comparison being only .2 L smaller and similar HP numbers but it really is a world of difference. I loved all my B engines but there is no denying the massive performance upgrade that my k24 has given me. 6th gear at 1800 rpm the car will still take off on half throttle. Very addicting to display the torque 😂
my wife calls him my "track spouse" ... @Dublocivic on IG... he's been my sounding board for this build. he has a very nicely done K24A2 EG hatch... he moved from street stuff to getting on track and he is hooked. his K24A2 with 240hp and a Z3 trans with type S 6th and a 5.46 hits 148mph at VIR... but he is a loon and revs to 8600

we did an experiment... with my old car... and gear stacks are more important than a FD... stacking them is a complicated game of math and corner speeds.

my B18C5 (with a 5.1 FD) has nothing on the pull this Z3 has with a stock trans. its going to be insane with the DC5R stack and the 5.46
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
When I rebuild my transmission I am doing the DC5R 4th and 5th gear w/ 4.7 FD
for a street car i dont see that being a bad way to go.

for road racing, you want to reach your top speed as fast as possible... so you drop in your "best" gear stack and then swap final drives to top out in 6th at your top speed.

some people done believe that the 6th gear is useful, even with the Type R set... and beg to differ. I was one of the first people to use a 5.1 FD on the east coast effectively... and now they all do it. there are some historical racers in EP3/RSX/8th and 9th gens that only gear their FD to top out in 5th... and they will see... they should have used all the gears. :)
 

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for a street car i dont see that being a bad way to go.

for road racing, you want to reach your top speed as fast as possible... so you drop in your "best" gear stack and then swap final drives to top out in 6th at your top speed.

some people done believe that the 6th gear is useful, even with the Type R set... and beg to differ. I was one of the first people to use a 5.1 FD on the east coast effectively... and now they all do it. there are some historical racers in EP3/RSX/8th and 9th gens that only gear their FD to top out in 5th... and they will see... they should have used all the gears. :)
the 2002 type s 6th is close to the type r 6th. that is why I will keep the type s 6th. I could not imagine a 5.4 fd on the street. that would be nuts in 5th-6th at 45-50 mph driving around town lol..
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
the 2002 type s 6th is close to the type r 6th. that is why I will keep the type s 6th. I could not imagine a 5.4 fd on the street. that would be nuts in 5th-6th at 45-50 mph driving around town lol..
I have the 05-06 RSX 6th gear set in a box... i'd need the 5.84 FD for that setup.

around town would be a lot of 4th gear driving. no matter what with a 5.X FD.
 
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