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Discussion Starter · #202 ·
I’ve only watched part so far but the car sounds great !
it really does sound good... my chassis guy said down the front straight away, at the start stand it sounded the meanest in the group.
 
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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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if you want to know how to drive SLOWLY at summit point... here is your video. the end is a smidge exciting.
Thanks for sharing it. Awesome to see your car finally running on the track so well. How did you like the turn in into bends? Seems like your most of competitors can't follow your pace. I really enjoyed watching it. Great, I am happy for your first run!
 

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Discussion Starter · #204 ·
Thanks for sharing it. Awesome to see your car finally running on the track so well. How did you like the turn in into bends? Seems like your most of competitors can't follow your pace. I really enjoyed watching it. Great, I am happy for your first run!
WELL... most of the fast guys weren't there this weekend. there is a group of 4-6 fast guys and only 3 showed up. I generally finished between 5th and 7th. The fast guys are 1-2 seconds faster than I am/was at our tracks. BUT 7 of our guys (fast to mid pack) went to the national championship last year and placed 1st through 7th.

To have the car this fast out on its first race was a great sign. But it was still a hand full to drive. I'm basically right where i left off in the group. i was afraid that i would be behind learning the car... this isnt the case.
Rectangle Slope Parallel Font Circle


Braking: I was timid at first. new car, lots of tire walls, etc... BUT once i started getting used to them i could push them. and they work very well. this ABS system is amazing on track when you go a smidge too deep. Deleting this is a BAD idea and i completely see why people wreck these cars (and BRZs which have an amazing logic ABS system) when it randomly fails...

Entry: Initially I was very upset over the corner entry. It felt slow and wasnt rotating very well. In a FWD car you want the car to slide just a bit on entry to point the nose and then roll in the throttle from mid to exit, pulling the car out of the corner. My old car liked smooth everything... i found out that this car didnt like that... it like fast hands on entry (quickly move the steering wheel) and then smoothly maneuver the car through mid to exit.

Just adjusting to quicker hands on entry saved my front tires a lot more. My first two sessions I was over heating the front tires within 5-6 laps. switching my style i was able to save the tires for +18 laps on a much hotter day. This tells me I need to make adjustments to the rear of the car to get it to rotate. in the video you will see me shift just before entry at turn 7 to make the car rotate... you do what you have to do.

Mid: The front suspension is soft and the OSG diff is great... but none of this could put up with how fast the K20Z3 puts down the torque. In my old car with the B18C-R i could "usually" just mash the gas.... but you have to roll on the gas with this car... no big deal, the power curve is a monster. I need to get this car more on the curbing to help get the car pointed the right way... when i did it... it helped... on my optimal lap video, i'm on all the curbs. but i didnt really use them a lot because the car is new and the rear is super stiff.

Exit: It was pushy from the beginning so it will be this way on exit. we don't have the benefit of throttle oversteer (like rear wheel drive cars do), so you have to fix your suspension from the entry through the exit. that being said... front wheel drive cars enter slow and exit fast (see the bmws that pass me)... I overslow to let them by cleanly but i can still gain ground on them after i let them by.

my biggest issue... and its followed me to this car, because its a driver problem... I slow down 1-3 mph too much on the big corners at this track. the garmin data (which is amazing btw, and provided the video expediently) shows on the tablet that its worth 1.1-1.5 seconds a lap at this small course. the garmin showed that 1/2 a brake marker was worth .8 seconds at this track... so i know i can get that back immediately the next time i'm out.

altering just those two things (not the suspension) will net me enough speed to get to the front.
 
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Discussion Starter · #206 ·
Maybe you need just to gain more confidence in your car.
well due vacation and family coming in the country... i likely will not make any changes before the next event. I have a lot more time at this track and will be able to gather more data...

but i'm pretty confident that a change needs to happen. I was pushing the car pretty hard in certain sections.... so much so that the Garmin says my best possible lap time (assuming i could string it all together) was as fast as the first place car. BUT i think with changes i can go faster...

I have to work on the car and how it feels but i also need to work on myself and pushing the thresholds all the time and not relaxing for the entire race.

i'm going to measure the motion ratios and do the math for the static spring rates. compare them to what i have on the car... and see what direction the car needs to go. springs get expensive.
 

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I will say looks like overall an exciting weekend. I can chime in a little bit with the 8th clutch engagement is.... frustrating at best in OE form. I removed my clutch delay valve from the slave cylinder and plan on modifying the master cylinder in a similar fashion. Easy mod and makes the clutch feel very similar to a k swapped chassis at that point.
 

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Thank you for sharing the video, shout out to Summit Point for throwing down a event.

The car sounds really good and strong. Is it just me on is the throttle getting stuck sometimes? Or is it that you are still shaking the car out and gaining confidence - reason as to lifting instead of staying with the throttle?

Nice driving, shout out to the Virginia resident on track.
 

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Discussion Starter · #209 ·
Thank you for sharing the video, shout out to Summit Point for throwing down a event.

The car sounds really good and strong. Is it just me on is the throttle getting stuck sometimes? Or is it that you are still shaking the car out and gaining confidence - reason as to lifting instead of staying with the throttle?

Nice driving, shout out to the Virginia resident on track.
it could be the couple of times i missed a shift... it could be the lift required to enter T4... also to get the car to rotate through the carousel i needed to lift a little here and there.

this car puts the torque down so quickly and early, that i cant be 100% in the throttle all the time. the garmin says my time to make up is actually in the braking zones... deeper in T1 (by a scary amount) and less braking for T3 and T10 (though i know i can enter them both at the same speed now which is wild).
 

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Are you limited in intake manifold selection? If it has to be OEM, what about a TSX manifold to boost the midrange power even more? After all you are really limited in top end power to begin with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #211 ·
Are you limited in intake manifold selection? If it has to be OEM, what about a TSX manifold to boost the midrange power even more? After all you are really limited in top end power to begin with.
for now i am... the rules are really vaguely written. and i would rather wait for clarity on something that will need a complete retune.

"9.4.1 Engines must be completely OEM and conform to the exact specifications found in the factory service manual"

now... they let me do the oil pump and oil pan... which leads me to believe that this rule really means "Engines must be complete OEM and conform to the specifications section in the factory service manual"... example: it must have the factory valve job... because if it was any specifications in the manual, a torque on a bolt could get you DQed... but i'm learning the car and waiting for clarity.

i REALLY need to change my fuel injectors... but i think this rule limits that as written.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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Are you limited in intake manifold selection? If it has to be OEM, what about a TSX manifold to boost the midrange power even more? After all you are really limited in top end power to begin with.
What a smart idea. Remembering the dyno adventure of @katman with different manifolds, the ported RBB made more torque as the RRC on his K20 engine, it just let fall off the torque much earlier. See more here: Skunk2 K-series Manifold Test Fit | Page 28 | Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum. What I don't know, but I assume it wasn't done, is VTEC tuning. If so, more torque down low would be available too. That would be the smartness of this idea.
 

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Discussion Starter · #213 ·
What a smart idea. Remembering the dyno adventure of @katman with different manifolds, the ported RBB made more torque as the RRC on his K20 engine, it just let fall off the torque much earlier. See more here: Skunk2 K-series Manifold Test Fit | Page 28 | Honda / Acura K20a K24a Engine Forum. What I don't know, but I assume it wasn't done, is VTEC tuning. If so, more torque down low would be available too. That would be the smartness of this idea.
I actually own that RBB manifold from the Katman testing. I bought it off this forum about 8ish years ago :ROFLMAO:
 
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Discussion Starter · #215 ·
And I'm still running the RSP I picked up off of you probably just as many years ago as well :ROFLMAO:
damnit... i was going to hit you up to see if you still had it. I think i need another one to shit on my shelf and look at.

I have a feeling the rules are going to change a bit for the K24 when i move to H1 (in a year or two) and i want to have one ready to CNC port for all the power and torques.
 

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Yupp, Still have it! Going to more than likely switch up my intakes a bit on the civic. I want to kswap the insight so for packaging reasons the RSP will most likely make the move over to the ZE1. An off the shelf intake wise an RBC or RRC makes the most sense for me to use with the 3.5" intake.

Plus as a bonus once the swap is done the RSP could be adopted to a dual plenum manifold for all the boost potential.
 

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Discussion Starter · #217 ·
No real major car updates... I'm still in data collection mode, so i need to keep it pretty consistent. I'll be cleaning it up some and ceramic coating the car and wheels... and i'm moving from +12mm spacers up front to +15mm. yes thats harder on the wheel bearings but it gets the car truly square. This generation of civic has a narrower front track width than the rear track width... this does not help with the under steering issue.

I have however started researching and ordering different spring rates to play with... the rear springs and the front springs are two different diameters and require two different heights (not optimal, and i might start looking at new coil overs for the next season... though the spring height may always be a challenge due to the size required for the rear ride height) ...

All the parts will be getting to the house at some point (while i'm on vacation). between now and the next race... i have family coming in the country and a bunch of us are going to the beach together... so not a lot of time to work on the car... thank goodness there isnt much to do.

I am working with a company to develop some stuff for the car. they actually reached out to me... so i'll have some baseline data and be doing some testing... more info to come with that... probably while i'm on vacation :LOL::ROFLMAO: but i'll keep that info tight lipped for now.

In the mean time... my wife wanted a trip... so we dragged my half brother and my adoptive brother out into the woods for a trip to hit all the peaks in Virginia over 5k feet. family is family... and i have a big eclectic one.

Sky Jeans Mountain Plant Plant community


this is us on a "bald" at just over 5k ft of elevation... scoping out the wild ponies that live in these mountains.

Sky Atmosphere Mountain Cloud Slope


my wife out climbing rocks hand over hand ... with all her backpacking gear still on. This is just after sunrise at Pine Top Mountain...

Cloud Sky Natural landscape Horizon Grassland


This was the first morning... we started at sun up and hiked through the woods, up and around the mountain and were greeted with this view to get to our first 5k ft peak... (white top mountain). we made really good time this trip... cutting off 4 hours off the trip (the wife and i did this a couple of years ago together).
 
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Discussion Starter · #218 ·
AND THEN WE GET PHOTOS!!!!

Plant Car Sky Tire Vehicle

My regions tradition... Standing Starts... and you thought all that stop light drag racing in high school didnt apply to real life!

Vehicle Car Wheel Tire Cloud

This picture is going to make me do a lot of math... my splitter angle will need some work... also... this car looks like a monster truck :ROFLMAO:

Wheel Car Tire Vehicle Plant


Wheel Tire Vehicle Car Automotive tire


Car Wheel Land vehicle Vehicle Tire

Yes thats a former World Challenge car behind me... driven by a new rookie.

Car Land vehicle Vehicle Tire Wheel

same corner with no competition behind me... this is where i should be... right next to the curbing.

Car Vehicle Wheel Tire Automotive tire

I'm very surprised that with this spring set up im not lifting the rear... i must need to drive faster.

Car Land vehicle Vehicle Tire Wheel

punching large holes in the air.
 

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awesome pictures, thank you for sharing and keeping us part of the action. I was wondering if this would help with rear downforce, in the middle putting another support down to the trunk. There has to be some deflection lost just having the two on the outside. In a way what I am saying sounds dumb because I am not reinventing the wheel here with aero advancement.
 

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Arouse the DAMPFHAMMER!
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I am working with a company to develop some stuff for the car. they actually reached out to me... so i'll have some baseline data and be doing some testing... more info to come with that... probably while i'm on vacation :LOL::ROFLMAO: but i'll keep that info tight lipped for now.
Very nice, sounds awesome. What engineering service do they need from you?

I'm very surprised that with this spring set up im not lifting the rear... i must need to drive faster.
That was my impression too when viewing the videos. But learning the smooth way as the hard way...gradually :).

Thanks for the hiking pictures, which gave a really nice impression of these tracks you went on. Here is one of hikes of last weekend.
Sky Cloud Mountain Water Plant


Picture above is of my homeland from last weekend. The place I stand, taking the picture, is the exact place where I did my marriage proposal 4 years ago to my wife and where I married her 2nd time (1st is formal, 2nd is kind of religious). I love this place, easy to get up for my daughter and wife while offering still a good view over my beloved homeland. My home mountain is on the left has almost 6000 ft, the place I stood on is about 3600 ft and the highest mountain you see in the back with snow is about 7700 ft, which is still not our highest of that valley, which is about 8200 ft. The glacial lake below lays at around 2300 ft above sea level. I was on almost every of those mountains you can see here with my mountain-bike. I lived for 9 years in Munich, but drove to my homeland every weekend (roughly 140 miles) to bike in the mountains with my buddies. On one of mountains in the back we have one of the 3 steepest streets of Europe, which has almost 38 % in gradient. Some people uses their hand to go up their :D.
 
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