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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First I just want to say I read the thread Human Dog Face (Ik it sounds weird) but it was kinda sad that people were talking bout how a lot of this stuff is dying or dead almost 3 years ago. I get it tho. Here’s a link to the thread if u want to check it out later human dog face

Anyway let’s get to what we r here for
So I started looking into an engine swap and I think the biggest I can go is 2 liter. I looked into just dropping a M139 in and calling it a day but it is large for a 2 liter and it wouldn’t fit most likely. Also the computers r most likely a mess. Anyway I heard bout the k20. I was hoping everyone here could just get me pointed in the right direction. It would help me out a lot and maybe u guys will like talking bout a build again. I’m not sure. I read a whole article bout the differences between all the k20 motors and it’s a lot to take in. Also there’s just so many parts. So what would u guys recommend for a full build for 500hp maybe 600 at the wheels. I would like to overbuild it and have it not running maxed out to keep it reliable. I’m hoping a turbo will fit as well to make the hp mark easier to hit but if it doesn’t fit I guess we will b back to the drawing board. I’m not ready for the swap right this minute so we have time for this. Hopefully this doesn’t just die out tho. Here’s a big question I have.
Do I want to start with a stock running motor? I would think it would b much easier to just buy a block and head and all the parts and just put it together but maybe I’m wrong. Also I would need to build a transmission too.
These use a cable transmission or whatever it’s called right? The lighter we can make this the better. Thanks I hope to hear from everyone soon
 

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well, it all depends.
What car do you want to put a K20 or K24 in?
RWD, FWD or all wheel drive?
Do you like a little extra torque or do you like a very rev happy motor?
What application do you have in mind? few squirts of power on the highway? Drag strip? Track days on race tracks? Endurance racing? Land speed records?
stock unopened K20a2 or K24a2/3/4 have made 600HP and more. The big question is for how long.
Gear boxes become weak once you see in excess of 350HP RWD or some 400HP FWD applications.
Companies like Gear-x or PPG sell gear kits that can take even a 1000HP and the associated torque.
Don’t expect this to be cheap.
Quaiffe, Hollinger and others also offer sequential gearboxes for monster power applications.
It is all a question of application and budget.

Same for the engines.
If you need a reliable 600HP or 700HP at the crank for any kind of track or endurance work, you will likely have to sleeve the engine and put in proper rods and pistons.
Tons of threads on here on what engine worked to what power levels.
If you stick to say 500HP at the crank for short bursts of power, you can use any k20a2 or K24a2-3-4 (correct me if I am wrong, K24 is not my territory) stock and boost it.
e85 is to be considered and helps.

Integration is commonly easy with a Doctronic or Hondata-ECU.
If you want or need something more advanced, you need to get a proper AEM, Life, Syveecs, or MOTEC ECU. But for most the Hondata V4 and a wideband lambda will do. Boost by gear etc. are all OK.
Don’t expect super fancy multi sensor linked mathematical torque and boost control strategies or the like fro ma Hondata-ECU. At the end of a day, it is a programmable version of the stock Honda ECU with some extra feature.
 

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well, it all depends.
What car do you want to put a K20 or K24 in?
RWD, FWD or all wheel drive?
Do you like a little extra torque or do you like a very rev happy motor?
What application do you have in mind? few squirts of power on the highway? Drag strip? Track days on race tracks? Endurance racing? Land speed records?
stock unopened K20a2 or K24a2/3/4 have made 600HP and more. The big question is for how long.
Gear boxes become weak once you see in excess of 350HP RWD or some 400HP FWD applications.
Companies like Gear-x or PPG sell gear kits that can take even a 1000HP and the associated torque.
Don’t expect this to be cheap.
Quaiffe, Hollinger and others also offer sequential gearboxes for monster power applications.
It is all a question of application and budget.

Same for the engines.
If you need a reliable 600HP or 700HP at the crank for any kind of track or endurance work, you will likely have to sleeve the engine and put in proper rods and pistons.
Tons of threads on here on what engine worked to what power levels.
If you stick to say 500HP at the crank for short bursts of power, you can use any k20a2 or K24a2-3-4 (correct me if I am wrong, K24 is not my territory) stock and boost it.
e85 is to be considered and helps.

Integration is commonly easy with a Doctronic or Hondata-ECU.
If you want or need something more advanced, you need to get a proper AEM, Life, Syveecs, or MOTEC ECU. But for most the Hondata V4 and a wideband lambda will do. Boost by gear etc. are all OK.
Don’t expect super fancy multi sensor linked mathematical torque and boost control strategies or the like fro ma Hondata-ECU. At the end of a day, it is a programmable version of the stock Honda ECU with some extra feature.
that is some helpful information to type up. nice of ya
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
well, it all depends.
What car do you want to put a K20 or K24 in?
RWD, FWD or all wheel drive?
Do you like a little extra torque or do you like a very rev happy motor?
What application do you have in mind? few squirts of power on the highway? Drag strip? Track days on race tracks? Endurance racing? Land speed records?
stock unopened K20a2 or K24a2/3/4 have made 600HP and more. The big question is for how long.
Gear boxes become weak once you see in excess of 350HP RWD or some 400HP FWD applications.
Companies like Gear-x or PPG sell gear kits that can take even a 1000HP and the associated torque.
Don’t expect this to be cheap.
Quaiffe, Hollinger and others also offer sequential gearboxes for monster power applications.
It is all a question of application and budget.

Same for the engines.
If you need a reliable 600HP or 700HP at the crank for any kind of track or endurance work, you will likely have to sleeve the engine and put in proper rods and pistons.
Tons of threads on here on what engine worked to what power levels.
If you stick to say 500HP at the crank for short bursts of power, you can use any k20a2 or K24a2-3-4 (correct me if I am wrong, K24 is not my territory) stock and boost it.
e85 is to be considered and helps.

Integration is commonly easy with a Doctronic or Hondata-ECU.
If you want or need something more advanced, you need to get a proper AEM, Life, Syveecs, or MOTEC ECU. But for most the Hondata V4 and a wideband lambda will do. Boost by gear etc. are all OK.
Don’t expect super fancy multi sensor linked mathematical torque and boost control strategies or the like fro ma Hondata-ECU. At the end of a day, it is a programmable version of the stock Honda ECU with some extra feature.



thx for the response
im going to try to fit this into a beat
so its rwd and it needs to stay small so there is a possibility a turbo wont fit but i would like to force it to
i would like to keep it rev happy just to match the original motor but if the limit is lower for powers sake i wont complain. i would like to have it drivable still but a track day once in a while and trying for decent times in a 1/4 mile would b nice. i would like to overbuild to try to get some reliability maybe out of it because breaking things is not a happy time so i want that reduced as much as possible.
just ignore the idea of budget for planning and then cheaper options can b found later if needed but i want to build it and get it done with and just do maintenance from there.
e85 is definitely an option for me and if u really need to know the pumps around me stay at a really consistent 70% but it can drop or raise by a few here and there. i dont plan on paying a ton for race e85
i thought i would set a lower goal of like 400-500 but really so many things online talk about people getting much higher so if we can go for 600-700 that would be cool. what do u think i should go for? its a light car so high power will make it fly. maybe literally.
i havent gotten the car yet just so u know but i feel like that shouldnt mean we cant talk bout building it
 

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in a RWD app that sees the track, you will need to upgrade the gearbox post some 350Nm/350HP.
Past 450 or so and you will shred your gearbox potentially before finishing mapping.

You want it rev happy? Stick to a K20.

Here is a Honda S2000 racecar with a about 5xxHP K20a2 turbo.
Fast enough? I think it would scare me. Turns approach pretty quickly at 162mph sitting on the limiter in 6th gear and brake zones also don’t get longer if you go faster.
Can your brakes take the beating on track?


Actions starts shortly after 3 Minutes into the video.

What car is beat? VW Beetle?
If it is for a VW Bug, I’d stick with 300HP for a starter. I helped mapping a 250HP 2.6l ITB’d Typ 4 1969 beetle. It ain’t handling like my Elise. More than 300HP with be suicidal in that chassis IMHO.

Hondata or Doctronic provide inputs for a Conti flex fuel sensor, so you get auto adjust.

If you invest in a PPC/Albins/Gear-x or MFactory gear kit, you can get to huge numbers.
Question is if it is actually enjoyable to drive a car that wants to kill you every time you boot it.

If you want 500HP, then plan for it. fuel system, charge cooling, suspension, brakes, gearbox, suitable differential. Then engine might take it or might not. If you open it up, increase the ring gaps at least.

If you want more, consider forged rods and pistons. Want even more, sleeve the engine for that 1000HP.
But even before that you then need to seriously know what you are doing regarding suspension and set-up in high HP turbo RWD car. Otherwise, you‘ll end up with a RIP post here at some point.

FWD just spins the wheels and litte else happens.
RWD will either go big way sideways, spin or even wheely at the 500HP level if the car is light enough. Most high power (400HP+) Elise folks fit traction control of a kind in order to prevent getting bitten.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
in a RWD app that sees the track, you will need to upgrade the gearbox post some 350Nm/350HP.
Past 450 or so and you will shred your gearbox potentially before finishing mapping.

You want it rev happy? Stick to a K20.

Here is a Honda S2000 racecar with a about 5xxHP K20a2 turbo.
Fast enough? I think it would scare me. Turns approach pretty quickly at 162mph sitting on the limiter in 6th gear and brake zones also don’t get longer if you go faster.
Can your brakes take the beating on track?


Actions starts shortly after 3 Minutes into the video.

What car is beat? VW Beetle?
If it is for a VW Bug, I’d stick with 300HP for a starter. I helped mapping a 250HP 2.6l ITB’d Typ 4 1969 beetle. It ain’t handling like my Elise. More than 300HP with be suicidal in that chassis IMHO.

Hondata or Doctronic provide inputs for a Conti flex fuel sensor, so you get auto adjust.

If you invest in a PPC/Albins/Gear-x or MFactory gear kit, you can get to huge numbers.
Question is if it is actually enjoyable to drive a car that wants to kill you every time you boot it.

If you want 500HP, then plan for it. fuel system, charge cooling, suspension, brakes, gearbox, suitable differential. Then engine might take it or might not. If you open it up, increase the ring gaps at least.

If you want more, consider forged rods and pistons. Want even more, sleeve the engine for that 1000HP.
But even before that you then need to seriously know what you are doing regarding suspension and set-up in high HP turbo RWD car. Otherwise, you‘ll end up with a RIP post here at some point.

FWD just spins the wheels and litte else happens.
RWD will either go big way sideways, spin or even wheely at the 500HP level if the car is light enough. Most high power (400HP+) Elise folks fit traction control of a kind in order to prevent getting bitten.
a beat as in a honda beat. the car might do a wheelie with how light it is and because its mid engine. just going by the stock weight of the car 660hp is like a power to weight of 2.5 and to me that sounds amazing. this car might be completely suicidal with speed and acceleration but if the wheels dont spin whenever ur on the gas then i would think it seems manageable. the biggest brake kit i can find will be applied to this after i figure out a widebody or flares and wider tyres and hopefully bigger ones too. they are really small. i had a feeling that i would have to stick with a k20 no matter what because the k24 would be to big. i wasnt sure if there was a size difference but it sounds like the k24 is taller. i think shooting for 600 and getting 5??hp seems like a good goal to go for. should i just sleeve it no matter what? how about we just go forged no matter what? it doesnt sound like going better can hurt. the parts can only handle so much so the car has a limit to how much it can be turned up but if you build it better then the car can always be tuned down some. would you like me to attach some pictures of the car? it currently takes, i believe, over 12 seconds to reach 60mph.

that video was cool to see. i would definitely like to try something like that.

so what would your part suggestions be for this?

thank you
 

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just had a look at a Honda beat.
Honestly, 300-350bHp from a simple stock block K20a2 with GT30 or a TVS1320 supercharger is all it takes to scare yourself senseless in that thing.
in the UK there is a chap that haas recently build a 540wHp Lotus Exige with turbo k24s at about the same weight as a stock Beat . It runs boost by gear and only sees full boost in 4th gear. He uses a sophisticated ECU with traction control. After the first drives he was scared even in 4th gear.
First thing he did after WOT in 3rd and 4th gear was reducing boost.

A Honda Beat will be undrivable with likely even “just” 350HP from a turbo K20 or k24. 600 is complete nonsense. RWD big turbos are difficult to drive. This is why I would suggest a SC for a light and small K20 conversion.


540wHP Lotus Exige K24 turbo with sequential gearbox.

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
just had a look at a Honda beat.
Honestly, 300-350bHp from a simple stock block K20a2 with GT30 or a TVS1320 supercharger is all it takes to scare yourself senseless in that thing.
in the UK there is a chap that haas recently build a 540wHp Lotus Exige with turbo k24s at about the same weight as a stock Beat . It runs boost by gear and only sees full boost in 4th gear. He uses a sophisticated ECU with traction control. After the first drives he was scared even in 4th gear.
First thing he did after WOT in 3rd and 4th gear was reducing boost.

A Honda Beat will be undrivable with likely even “just” 350HP from a turbo K20 or k24. 600 is complete nonsense. RWD big turbos are difficult to drive. This is why I would suggest a SC for a light and small K20 conversion.


540wHP Lotus Exige K24 turbo with sequential gearbox.

it wont be drivable even with wide tyres?

well then how much does 350hp cost?

i feel like we can do more with wider tyres so what would u think bout that?
 

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500whp from a big turbo in a rwd Honda beat is going to want to lift the front end off the ground lol what’s the suspension going to look like ? Can it fit 275 wide tires or so ?
 

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for a 350HP build, the stock block will do, either a K24 or a K20a2. Slap on a GTX30 sized turbo, suitable charge cooling, fuel supply and off you go. Stock cams and everything.
More simple and drivable would be a TVS1320 based supercharger or a Rotrex SC kit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
500whp from a big turbo in a rwd Honda beat is going to want to lift the front end off the ground lol what’s the suspension going to look like ? Can it fit 275 wide tires or so ?
i have seen many pics online of rear fender flares but havent found anything for sale. there r some pretty wide tyres on some of them tho

for a 350HP build, the stock block will do, either a K24 or a K20a2. Slap on a GTX30 sized turbo, suitable charge cooling, fuel supply and off you go. Stock cams and everything.
More simple and drivable would be a TVS1320 based supercharger or a Rotrex SC kit.
how much is a good k20a2 and how hard r they to find?

thx guys
 

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i have seen many pics online of rear fender flares but havent found anything for sale. there r some pretty wide tyres on some of them tho



how much is a good k20a2 and how hard r they to find?

thx guys
Depends where you are located at. On eBay they’re 12-1500$ with questionable mileage and compression/leak down results. I would look for a wrecked rsx or civic si (02-05) if you are outside the United States those came with k20a2 as well. My thought process being the car was driving when the accident happened so if the engine hasn’t had parts removed or messed with chances are it’s useable still. If you buy a used motor I would be prepared to replace oil and water pumps, timing components etc unless you can see and hear it run prior. Often times these parts add up to just as much as was spent on the engine itself, but it is mostly necessary. Jdm k24a may be an easier engine to locate, and they are low miles and in useable condition off the pallet.
 

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TBH, a beat might already be overwhelmed with a NA K20a2 or K24 before adding any boost.
As you don't have to crack open the engine even for 400HP, you could start with a NA build and sort it out first on all fronts.
If you use a suitable fuel pump and large enough injectors to beginn with, SC or strapping on a turbo is a minor exercise compared to the swap itself.
Once brakes, suspension, engine, gearbox, custom drive shafts etc are all sorted out, you can still turbo it.

A simple stock K24 with decent cams, intake manifold and 2.5" exhaust system will turn any Kei car into a tire shredding 250wHP missile.
Then do some race days and sort out the niggles, braking engine mounts etc.

I have converted two Lotus Elise to a K20 and I am currently helping out a friend finishing his supercharged K20a2 installation in a 2004 Lotus Exige ditching the 2ZZ Toyota engine.
Engine runs and we just finished wrapping the wiring harness.
It is a shit load of work as is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Depends where you are located at. On eBay they’re 12-1500$ with questionable mileage and compression/leak down results. I would look for a wrecked rsx or civic si (02-05) if you are outside the United States those came with k20a2 as well. My thought process being the car was driving when the accident happened so if the engine hasn’t had parts removed or messed with chances are it’s useable still. If you buy a used motor I would be prepared to replace oil and water pumps, timing components etc unless you can see and hear it run prior. Often times these parts add up to just as much as was spent on the engine itself, but it is mostly necessary. Jdm k24a may be an easier engine to locate, and they are low miles and in useable condition off the pallet.
TBH, a beat might already be overwhelmed with a NA K20a2 or K24 before adding any boost.
As you don't have to crack open the engine even for 400HP, you could start with a NA build and sort it out first on all fronts.
If you use a suitable fuel pump and large enough injectors to beginn with, SC or strapping on a turbo is a minor exercise compared to the swap itself.
Once brakes, suspension, engine, gearbox, custom drive shafts etc are all sorted out, you can still turbo it.

A simple stock K24 with decent cams, intake manifold and 2.5" exhaust system will turn any Kei car into a tire shredding 250wHP missile.
Then do some race days and sort out the niggles, braking engine mounts etc.

I have converted two Lotus Elise to a K20 and I am currently helping out a friend finishing his supercharged K20a2 installation in a 2004 Lotus Exige ditching the 2ZZ Toyota engine.
Engine runs and we just finished wrapping the wiring harness.
It is a shit load of work as is.
im not a big fan of superchargers. i much rather a turbo. i think ill go with the k20 over the k24 so we can stay with the rev happy engine because its what the car has originally. im not to caring for things being original but these seemed like it would be nice. so r we planning on just getting the engine in first and then figuring out the rest of the car and then turbo? this seems to make sense but i just want to make sure i font have to buy anything twice. i see no reason in having ur car get upgraded in stages cause in the end it just cost more and takes more time.

thx guys
 
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