Hello k20a.org! Pardon the long post!
Short background:
Been driving VAG-based cars in various offroad competitions for over 5 years now. We have quite a reasonable amount of experience in engine building and tuning, however all of our experience has been with the VW/Audi 4cil platform. The past three seasons our cars have been running properly built N/A engines running on E85 with ITB's and DIY megasquirt EFI.
The amateur rally competition we're currently running in regulates N/A engines with a maximum of 4 cilinders, the regulations are pretty much free after that.
The problem we have with the VAG platform is that it's basically one of the worst bases to start a proper built engine from (but 90% of competitors drove em and parts were widely available, hence the original choice). We would like to built an engine that'll put out ~270 hp / 270Nm at the flywheel, which on a VAG platform will set you back at least $10K and some serious reliability issues.
The biggest problem we have with this is that the way we drive the cars in this rally class, there's a chance we'll make a big shunt about once a season, which more often than not trashes an engine beyond repair. (No ARP rod bolts or upgraded oil pump is gonna protect your engine from landing upside down in a road-side pond so to speak). So the cheaper it is to replace the engine with another spare one, the better.
Current situation:
After spending some time looking into 2.3L Ford Duratec engines, I spoke to an old buddy last weekend who told me to look into the k-series, which is what I've been doing here at k20a.org for the past few days. And I like what I see so far . So in just three days time I've read through quite some FAQs and dyno sheets, but most of the builts here seem to be starting at 250WHP and above!
Due to the amount of spare parts/LSD we have we will make an adapter plate to bolt our VAG transmission to whatever engine we use.
The K-serie plan:
-The main goal: 270hp/270nm flywheel, which should translate to somewhere around 235WHP / 235WNm (175WTQ lbft)
-I don't see many K20A2's available here in the Netherlands, but came across some K24A3's, which should have the same bottom end as the US K24A2 but with the "2 lobe" half-assed VTEC head right?
-We still have a set of Jenvey 45mm DCOE ITB's
-Still have two megasquirt2 systems, and are able to get a DTA S80Pro for a bargain
Planned setup:
-K24A3 block
-Wiseco 1:13,7 pistons
-K24A3 head, as bone stock as possible
-E85 fuel
-45mm ITB's, stacks, airbox, CAI
-adequate exhaust headers, 3" exhaust I guess?
-MS2 or DTA S60/S80 ECU
-eventually dry sump it
-revlimiter maximum 8000rpm
Questions:
-How close to our goal will the above "budget" setup get us?
-Will we be needing a set of rods?
-What intake manifold to get for the DCOE jenveys? I only seem to come across TODA-style complete intake sets that use four bolts per ITB for the intake mounting.
-If we don't reach our goal;
-Will we be needing a set (or only intake) cams?
-How big is the VTEC-E problem? Is it possible to lock the solenoid in place thus always engaging every intake valve from idle onwards? I've got no clue about what duration and lift those stock cams run....
-The K24A3 head doesn't have VTC right?
-Are we really required to mount a K20A2 head to get proper power? The reason I'd rather not do this this season is the availability of these heads, the price that comes along with building the frankenstein (and we'd need to source two to have a spare engine....). And as far as I can tell to use the VTC we would then need to swap the ECU to a Hondata K-Pro??
-If we keep the revlimiter at maximum 8000rpm, will the K24 oil pump hold or will we still need the K20A2 one? The plan is to dry-sump it later on (any advice on good dry-sump pumps?), but that $1000 pricetag might push that back a season.
Again, sorry for the long post and many questions, please school these Honda noobs and pursuade us into taking a K-series out rallying!
Thanks for all of your input!
Short background:
Been driving VAG-based cars in various offroad competitions for over 5 years now. We have quite a reasonable amount of experience in engine building and tuning, however all of our experience has been with the VW/Audi 4cil platform. The past three seasons our cars have been running properly built N/A engines running on E85 with ITB's and DIY megasquirt EFI.
The amateur rally competition we're currently running in regulates N/A engines with a maximum of 4 cilinders, the regulations are pretty much free after that.
The problem we have with the VAG platform is that it's basically one of the worst bases to start a proper built engine from (but 90% of competitors drove em and parts were widely available, hence the original choice). We would like to built an engine that'll put out ~270 hp / 270Nm at the flywheel, which on a VAG platform will set you back at least $10K and some serious reliability issues.
The biggest problem we have with this is that the way we drive the cars in this rally class, there's a chance we'll make a big shunt about once a season, which more often than not trashes an engine beyond repair. (No ARP rod bolts or upgraded oil pump is gonna protect your engine from landing upside down in a road-side pond so to speak). So the cheaper it is to replace the engine with another spare one, the better.
Current situation:
After spending some time looking into 2.3L Ford Duratec engines, I spoke to an old buddy last weekend who told me to look into the k-series, which is what I've been doing here at k20a.org for the past few days. And I like what I see so far . So in just three days time I've read through quite some FAQs and dyno sheets, but most of the builts here seem to be starting at 250WHP and above!
Due to the amount of spare parts/LSD we have we will make an adapter plate to bolt our VAG transmission to whatever engine we use.
The K-serie plan:
-The main goal: 270hp/270nm flywheel, which should translate to somewhere around 235WHP / 235WNm (175WTQ lbft)
-I don't see many K20A2's available here in the Netherlands, but came across some K24A3's, which should have the same bottom end as the US K24A2 but with the "2 lobe" half-assed VTEC head right?
-We still have a set of Jenvey 45mm DCOE ITB's
-Still have two megasquirt2 systems, and are able to get a DTA S80Pro for a bargain
Planned setup:
-K24A3 block
-Wiseco 1:13,7 pistons
-K24A3 head, as bone stock as possible
-E85 fuel
-45mm ITB's, stacks, airbox, CAI
-adequate exhaust headers, 3" exhaust I guess?
-MS2 or DTA S60/S80 ECU
-eventually dry sump it
-revlimiter maximum 8000rpm
Questions:
-How close to our goal will the above "budget" setup get us?
-Will we be needing a set of rods?
-What intake manifold to get for the DCOE jenveys? I only seem to come across TODA-style complete intake sets that use four bolts per ITB for the intake mounting.
-If we don't reach our goal;
-Will we be needing a set (or only intake) cams?
-How big is the VTEC-E problem? Is it possible to lock the solenoid in place thus always engaging every intake valve from idle onwards? I've got no clue about what duration and lift those stock cams run....
-The K24A3 head doesn't have VTC right?
-Are we really required to mount a K20A2 head to get proper power? The reason I'd rather not do this this season is the availability of these heads, the price that comes along with building the frankenstein (and we'd need to source two to have a spare engine....). And as far as I can tell to use the VTC we would then need to swap the ECU to a Hondata K-Pro??
-If we keep the revlimiter at maximum 8000rpm, will the K24 oil pump hold or will we still need the K20A2 one? The plan is to dry-sump it later on (any advice on good dry-sump pumps?), but that $1000 pricetag might push that back a season.
Again, sorry for the long post and many questions, please school these Honda noobs and pursuade us into taking a K-series out rallying!
Thanks for all of your input!