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Hondata K-Pro Seminar
March 13, 2004, Torrance, CA
Notes by Conrad H. Blickenstorfer ([email protected])
On Saturday, March 13, 2004, Hondata held a tuning seminar at the Torrance Hilton in Los Angeles. This was a free one day seminar meant primarily for existing and prospective Hondata dealers, but also open to enthusiasts and others as long as space permitted. Almost 40 people were present in the morning, fewer in the afternoon.
The seminar covered general Honda tuning concepts and the use of the Hondata s200 system in the morning, and an introduction to the new Hondata K-Pro system in the afternoon. The seminar was presented by Doug MacMillan who, together with his partner Derek Stevens, owns Hondata. Doug was assisted throughout the presentation by Matt of the Hondata staff.
Both MacMillan and Stevens are New Zealanders who relocated to the United States about four years ago to start Hondata. MacMillan has racing experience and still holds the New Zealand land speed record in a 1.6 liter class that he set with a B16 CRX. Now having small children, MacMillan has pretty much given up racing and is concentrating on the tuning of Honda ECUs. His partner Stevens holds a degree in commerce and is the primary author of the Hondata ECU software. Matt is a tech support person who moved from Arizona and has substantial tuning knowledge, both hands on and with the Hondata software. Never having seen MacMillan (Hondata’s avatar on ClubRSX shows a Martian from the movie “Mars Attacks!”) I didn’t know what to expect. Turns out MacMillan is an eloquent man with a dry sense of humor, and much more reminiscent of a computer technologist than of a road racer.
Seminar participants received a CD-ROM that contained the afternoon (but not the morning) presentation in pdf format, a demo version of the s200 ROM Editor, a working version of the s200 datalogger, a working version of the new K-Series ECU Manager, and a few video clips that show the working of VTEC and such.
What follows is my recollection of Doug’s presentation:
Goals of tuning:
- The overall goal should be having educated customers: they should know what to expect and not have unrealistic expectations
- Reliability is important: what is safe and what isn’t, depending on the project
- Repeatability (know all the factors that affect it; synthetic gear oil, for example, takes longer to warm up, water temp, air temp, etc.)
- Maximum power is really only “marketing power.” A complete tuning package also includes easy starting, steady idling and good drivability.
- Road tuning is just as important as dyno tuning; the dyno only tells part of the story and real world conditions are very different.
- Part throttle is very hard to tune (and also to sell as it takes much longer!)
- Tuning for economy/emissions. It IS possible to have BOTH power AND economy. Same for emissions.
Some education:
- A road car is at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) only 0.1% of the time and part throttle 99.9% of the time.
- Part throttle tuning takes much longer (and costs a lot more), but done right makes for much better responsiveness and fuel economy. Some of the replacement chips out there only go for WOT top power. Some of those chips are very specialized, offer no ignition control, and generate error codes. Simply switching those codes off is not a good thing. Doug said 80% of the non-Mugen chips are really just copies of Mugen chips.
- Psychology of VTEC: The VTEC “kick” really shouldn’t be there if the engine is well tuned. Then the curve should be totally smooth. Interestingly, some people think the car with the VTEC “kick” has more power when, in fact, it has less.
Does more peak power always mean faster?
No! Acceleration depends on the power under the dyno curve. Higher peak power can actually generate less acceleration than a car with less peak power. Torque matters! More power between 3,000 and 6,000 is extremely important. The only time when that may be different and peak power becomes an issue is in drag racing.
Reliability:
- Doug asked how high do people rev? Some said as high as 10,500. Doug said that this is hardly ever needed as power drops off with most cams well below that. Hondata usually sets the rev limit about 500 rpm past the power peak. That way when you shift you drop back to a good high rev point, but one with lots of power left. How high should you rev? That depends on the strength of the rods and pistons. And valve bounce can damage pistons.
- Running rich/lean? Proper rich/lean tuning is extremely important. Interesting point brought up by Matt: The Mugen thermostat and similar do not let engine ever warm up all the way so that tuning gets because the engine keeps adding fuel.
- Ignition advance knock: If the spark is fired too soon, the piston is still coming up and the flame front bops into the piston. That can mean broken rods, worn bearings, or blown head gaskets. Sacrificing the last five or ten hp in a highly tuned engine will greatly increase longevity.
- Knock: one problem is that knock sensor reporting to the computer is not very good and the computer isn’t well equipped to accommodate. The knock sensor is actually a microphone; you can put headphones on and hear the knocking and which cylinder knocks.
- Altitude: table columns 1-10 must be tuned for higher altitude operation (Doug went through that quickly)
- Fuel pressure: Some people think higher fuel pressure is better. That is not always so. Low pressure means cooler fuel, pump and injectors. Some pumps actually move lower volume at higher pressure. Basically, higher fuel pressure does not appear what Hondata recommends. 50-60 psi is the max Hondata recommends.
Dyno repeatability
- Water temperature should be 180-195 degrees, and use datalogging
- Gearbox must be warmed up, especially with synthetic oil
- Keep intake temperature consistent
- A plug here for the Hondata intake gasket (now available for makes other than just Hondas). Intake manifold is aluminum and heats up when it really should be cool. The intake manifold is NOT a heat sink and the gasket does NOT hurt. Bypassing the heating on the throttle body (which some people do) amounts to perhaps 20% of the lowered temperature and the Hondata intake gasket 80%.
- Turn off the knock sensor and switch to open loop.
Tuning for torque
- Rough rule: 10% fuel change = 1 Air/Fuel point
- At peak torque engine needs most fuel and is least sensitive (to what?)
- The fuel curve is shaped very much like the torque curve
- After the torque peak, remove fuel
- For extended high speed running (endurance, etc.) run richer
- 2D curves must be smooth over the rpm range (lines in the graph should be parallel and have no sharp drops and rises). Load lines should never cross each other
Tuning for max power
- The top one or two rows matter most (rightmost one or two columns in the table?)
- Use the 2d view extensively to get it right
Stock Honda fuel map
- They are loaded in the software and you can pull them up
- They are nice and smooth and parallel
Optimize starting and idling
- Unplug idle control valve and adjust screw
- Cranking ignition values are in the first two rows, columns 8-10 in the table. Note that ignition is actually retarded there
- Idling control opens or closes the IAC
- For bigger injectors increase the target idle
- Advance ignition and lean via emulator
- Best idle around 830
Road tuning
- Dyno is different from road and different dynos load the engine differently
- Underhood airflow is different between dyno and road tuning
- WOT air/fuel seems richer on a dyno than on the road
- G sensor can measure horsepower during road tuning
Knock
- The knock sensor is a tuned microphone. You can build one from a speaker amp ($30).
- A knock processor will retard ignition by 12 degrees when it detects a knock, then adds 1 degree per second until it bumps into knocking again
- Knock sounds like a sharp ticking
Economy and emissions
- Add more ignition advance in part throttle
- Hint: add 5 degree timing around 1200-3500
- Don’t forget to switch back to closed loop after tuning!
- Doug mentioned examples of cars that failed to pass with the stock ECU but passed without problems with Hondata
- Doug feels that a well tuned OBD-1 computer does better than a OBD-II computer
Injectors
- Use saturated injectors (12 ohms) like the new 440 and 550s from RC Engineering
- 550 cc injectors at 50psi fuel pressure can handle approximately 320-350 whp
- The Honda stock fuel pump is good for 250-290 whp
Tuning procedure
- Take your Helms service manual
- Set ignition timing to stock
- Set VTEC high (7000) and tune WOT and part throttle
- Set VTEC low (2000) and repeat WOT and part throttle
- Set the VTEC crossover RPM
- (Note: this was covered much too quickly)
What does Datalogging do?
- Measures intake system efficiency with MAP
- Shows short and long term fuel trim (computer adjusts short term according to Oxygen sensor readings to a long term fuel trim value over a period of time, days, weeks) Watch for bad Oxygen sensors! Resetting the ECU sets the long term fuel trim back to zero.
- Shows intake air temperature compared to outside
- Shows injector duty cycle (should be under 90%). 100% means they’re always open.
- Monitor TW > 180 and TA = consistent
- Set launch RPM and ECU type
Tuning with A/F ratio
General hints:
- Use a COLD AIR INTAKE! Hondata tested the Comptech Icebox. It has better flow and is better than the stock airbox, but does not perform as well as a CAI.
- Use the Hondata heatshield gasket
- Insulate/wrap your intake
- A CAI can provide an additional 0.3-0.7 psi more boost underhood. Hot air costs boost pressure.
- The JRSC needs very little timing retard vs. stock
- Turbo retard 18-20 degrees from 12 psi up
- (Note: this was covered very quickly)
Doug mentioned Erick’s Racing 9.99 second ¼-mile Civic that has 300+ wheel hp on a 2.2 liter engine with the stock ignition and 10,500 rpm limit.
Demo of the Hondata s200 ROM Editor
Note: Hondata’s s200 system does not pertain to the RSX. It is for older Honda engines. However, using the s200 is fairly similar to using the new K-Series ECU Manager software, and a lot of the principles and settings discussed by Doug apply to the K-Series as well.
The Hondata ROM Editor lets you manipulate the fuel and ignition tables built into a Honda ECU. You can then upload a new or modified calibration into the ECU.
Data can be viewed either as a table, a 2D graph or a 3D graph. The rows in those tables represent engine rpm and columns represent engine load measured in pressure. Honda ECUs have separate ignition and fuel tables (and the K-Series also has cam angle tables) for the low and the high speed cams. The ROM Editor therefore lets you toggle between low and high speed cam tables. Note that low cam and high cam maps have different resolution and scaling. Even within a cam table, rpm differences between rows in the table are not always the same. The overall idea is to tweak values in cells or “tuning positions.”
You start by loading a map for a particular car. Start with one that has the most similar components as the motor you use. Some stock maps have settings for a particular feature, like an intake manifold with specific characteristics.
How do you edit data points in the table? You can change individual values. Or you can change a bunch of values all at once. Or you can select a bunch of points and then use an “interpolate points” feature. That comes in handy when a curve is rough and needs to be smoothed out. Or you can select all points of the table and advance everything by a couple of degrees and see what it does on the dyno.
Once all the desired changes are made the modified maps can be saved under a descriptive name and uploaded into the ECU.
Doug then demonstrated the injector sizing calculator. They allow you to set larger injector size, different fuel pressure and then scale the tables accordingly. He said that the K-Series runs a wide-band oxygen sensor which allows for more accurate recording.
Settings for forced induction and nitrous
Supercharged cars love low VTEC points, but that is not always desirable for daily driving, so the ROM Editor allows you to set the VTEC point so that it comes on, but ONLY at certain amount of boost (“boost-activated VTEC”). Else, the VTEC would come off and on and off and on during part throttle driving, which is very bad for economy. Doug said Hondata can set dry nitrous systems on and off automatically, depending on certain conditions. He said that nitrous is very efficient. You can get far more power from 440 injectors with nitrous than from a supercharger. Or you can use nitrous to cool the intake charge or to reduce turbo lag. Or set it so that it won’t spray under certain speeds or above certain revs.
Under Options you can turn off certain sensors which certain ECUs may not have. Under Notes you can describe what you did/changed and other particulars about a chip.
Datalogging and target lambda
Target Lambda is the air/fuel ratio you want to achieve using a wideband meter wired into the oxygen sensor. You datalog, then load the run and analyze. If it shows too rich or too lean in areas, you select those and then add or subtract fuel via a dialog box. One view shows duty cycle on selected injectors in percent. That way you can see if your injectors are adequate. Note: Stock oxygen sensors cannot be used for accurate datalogging! Also note that K-Series Oxygen sensor measures current not voltage and A/F gauge will NOT work on it, and even mess things up.
Other interesting facts:
- Interesting: air scoops and ram air should be low on car as swoopy hood and top increases air speed and thus lowers pressure, just as on an airplane wing. For best ram charging the scoop should be underneath.
- A G-Sensor can be added inside the s200 box for acceleration figures.
- MAP sensor can show you how your air intake is doing. If there is too much of a vacuum, you need more air (à CAI).
- One of the obvious pros in the audience referred to the “infamous hesitation issue” – That was Honda code relating to emission controls. Revision 37 of ROM fixed it. Apparently you can download new ROM revs from Hondata’s website
- Note that the rev limiter does NOT keep engine from over-revving during a misshift.
- Starting/cranking is in upper right part of the data table. Do not have much advance there, perhaps even zero or less.
- Honda ignition timing is very conservative to accommodate for very poor fuel.
Hondata uses the PLX wideband sensor (www.plxdevices.com) or the more expensive XJL (FJL?) for datalogging and road tuning.
Afternoon session: the Hondata K-Pro
The Hondata K-Pro system consists of an added circuit board to the standard ECU, the K-Series ECU Manager software, and a number of preconfigured calibration maps. How is it different from the Hondata reflash? The reflash is a one-shot recalibration of the ECU whereas the K-Pro is programmable and can recalibrate the ECU again and again. Whereas the Hondata initially tuned their static ECU reflashes for what was available at the time, i.e. basic header, AEM CAI, etc., the K-Pro, written by Derek Stevens, can be used for tuning and finetuning any supported vehicle with all sorts of add-ons. The initial product is for the US K-Series Type-S, but Hondata is also working on a K-Pro for the Civic Si and for European market Civic Type Rs.
Unlike the s200 system, K-Pro does programming and datalogging all in one. It has integrated wideband to take advantage of the Type-S’s wideband sensor. Doug feels the K-Pro is the best engine computer programming system, period. Uploading is via USB port that gets installed in the stock ECU in addition to a daughterboard that contains the interface to the Honda ECU. You can even upload a new map into the ECU while the car is running. It burbles a bit, then resumes.
What did Hondata find as they analyzed the RSX Type-S ECU?
- Runs very rich at high rpm
- Has conservative ignition timing, tuned for low emission at high mileage.
- VERY sensitive to the knock sensor (could explain dyno power differences in stock Type-S engines
- Once tuned, more power, same or better emission, better economy.
Basics: What makes power?
- The motor is really an air pump
- Put in as much air as possible
- Add proper fuel and ignite it at right time
- Make sure exhaust doesn’t restrict
VTEC = Variable Timing Electronic Control
VTC = Variable Timing Control
- 50 degree movement, constantly changing
- Settings for power and emissions.
- Cam angle can swing 50 degrees.
- There are six maps for 0, 10. 20. 30, 40, 50 degrees.
- VTC Control valve and actuator engage and disengage VTEC.
- Advance and retard chambers inside the actuator wheel moves parts inside (see video clip on CD)
K-Series ECU Manager software: frequently check for updates as there’s one every few days.
The initial download of the ECU software from a car takes 30 seconds or so and the car can’t run while doing it. Uploads of calibrations, however, only takes a few seconds and can be done while running. Here Doug mentioned that the Honda ECU has a backup processor that allows you to limp home even if the main processor fails (maybe the backup takes over while the new calibration is loaded?)
Doug emphasized that the cam angle is the most important aspect of tuning the K-Series engine. About 2500 dyno runs form the basics of the current software and maps.
The K-Series ECU Manager software has datalogging built-in. ROM Editor and Datalogger are combined here, but for now the software only has graphs and tables, and not the dials and other representations found in the s200 software.
Doug then went through some of the settings of the software. For example,
- Multiplexer off – temp gauge and some others will not display.
- Immobilizer can be turned off (not recommended)
- Fuel trim: #3 cylinder typically runs a bit hotter so you can add fuel
- For tuning, turn off closed loop because you want to be in open loop.
- Knock: you can set it so that MIL light flashes whenever it knocks. “K Count” is in the Sensors list and shows how often computer felt the engine knocked. Knock is a stored value, long-term. You can go see where the knocks occur and then see if the AF ratio is okay. If so, then check ignition advance. There can be dozens or hundreds of knock counts in a second (zoom in to see closely).
While the variable cam timing is terrific for tuning, having a constantly moving cam also means that it takes a longer time to tune all this. Doug explained that when tuning a car and developing the optimal calibrations, they actually do dynos at each angle (I think) then see where the cam likes to be for best power at each rpm.
For turbo VTEC tuning:
- there is greater exhaust backpressure; that means cam angles/overlap must be reduced to accommodate
- retarding cam can mean picking up 40 horsepower at high RPM.
- In general, with high backpressure you should retard the cam angles and raise the VTEC point, with low backpressure the opposite
Proper tuning at the VTEC point
Getting cam angle at VTEC point right is very important and one of the most difficult tuning tasks. If not done right, the curve is bumpy and performance suffers.
- Cam takes 0.1 seconds to rotate 10 degrees, so you have to start rotating the cam angle before VTEC so that the low cam and high cam angles are not far apart at the VTEC Point
- Done right, the VTEC switch noise is greatly reduced
- It’s better to sacrifice a bit of power before VTEC to gain it after
- Hardest to do on turbo motors!
Doug briefly talked about extreme cams. There are no really wild cams for the K-Series yet, but there are experimental ones that Hondata checked out. Add lots of timing at low end for impressive torque gains, raise idle speed, reduce overlap in part throttle.
Supercharged engines:
- Tuning is really similar to NA larger motor.
- It loves overlap.
- Cam angle affects boost in manifold
- Low cam VTC 45-50 degrees
- High cam VTC 50 degrees and then down to 40 from 7000 rpm on up
- The higher the RPM, the higher the boost. (Greddy turbo actually got less boost at higher RPM)
- However, more boost does not necessarily mean more power
- Street JRSC had 212-220 whp, went up to around 250 with Hondata.
Example of Greddy turbo K-Pro tuning on a Type-S showed 50 hp gain over simple e-manage “patches.”
Nitrous:
Doug said the use of nitrous was much safer with the K-Pro. He recommended a dry system. Wet nitrous system not a very happy match with Type S because at redline Type S cuts off fuel whereas nitrous continues, instantly leaning things to catastrophic levels. Nitrous works quite well with boosted engines. They get higher boost (by about 0.5 psi) and the supercharger acts as a nitrous mixer. Hondata tried a JRSC with 7 PSI and N2O. The nitrous dry system added boost but they found the belt slipping at high RPM (Doug runs DC twin canister exhaust and 7psi on his car). Ignition should be retarded, the system needs larger injectors, and nitrous should be shot off before redline. With turbo engines, nitrous can reduce turbo lag by spooling up the turbine more quickly.
Tuning for intakes:
Through the presentation Doug often came back to recommending cold air intakes. For tuning purposes it is important to know the resonance point of a CAI. The AEM CAI has resonance point of 5200, the short ram AEM V2 at about 5900. There is a torque peak and often lean spot at the resonance point. You can tune for different intakes. Doug mentioned that pressurized intakes can really make a difference. Build a box around it to force air into it.
Intake manifolds:
Doug showed some dyno runs of stock Type-S versus the Integra Type R intake manifold which has slightly fatter runners, and so should do better. However, the horsepower difference is primarily at the high end.
Fuel cooling and such:
Injector positioning: They should be at the top of the runner. This would be bad for emissions but good for power. Doug also spoke of the power benefits of cooling fuel. 20 degree Celsius difference means 1% more power. A company called designengineering.com specializes on all sorts of cooling and insulating materials and methods.
A variety of tuning pitfalls:
- Valve spring pressure too high is bad news as there isn’t enough lubrication.
- Cams can be installed incorrectly.
- TPS and MAP sensor can be reversed.
- MAP not relocated in supercharger.
Doug mentioned Alaniztechnologies.com which did interesting work on exhaust flow on Type-S
Effects of various mods:
A stock K20A2 engine makes between 160 and 175 wheel hp. That is quite a big difference in a modern precision engine and it could be because of different sensitivity in knock sensor. Doug went on to show dyno sheets of a variety of mods they added to a stock motor.
Hondata added almost 20 hp on top, AEM CAI another 10, Greddy catback added a bit, ITR cams another 15 hp. Raceheaders from Comptech added yet another 15 up to almost 230. ITR manifold added a bit of high-end. Titanium exhaust and pulleys added a few. Finally they installed a ported big valve head with Toda cams, for a result of almost 250 whp. A Hytech exhaust, 12:1 pistons, cams and intake raised that figure up to 270.
Another project (Hasport/Jackson Racing Civic Type R) replaced the K20A2 bottom with a K24 CRV bottom. This brought 40 pounds extra torque, but power dropped off quicker at the high end. Initial peak power was 210 whp. They added an 8psi JRSC and got torque of over 230 foot-pounds and over 290 whp.
Who uses Hondata?
Honda America Race Team (HART). Erick’s Racing got 9.99s ¼ mile. DC Sport RSX-S Turbo.
Doug said they also have what he called a “Show Car Special” K-Pro. It comes with flashing blue LEDs (which do absolutely nothing but flash) and a clear plastic case for twice the price.
K-Series Bang-for the buck list of mods:
- Intake Gasket
- CAI
- ECU Reflash
- Header/Exhaust
- K-Pro and tuning
- Nitrous and/or boost
- Cams
- K24 bottom end swap
The Calibration Verification Number
There is a Calibration Verification Number (CVN) that in the future may be used to see if an ECU program has been modified. This number is not currently checked even in California. Setting a reflashed ECU back to standard by Hondata sets it back to original. That factory program was not in the K-Pro when it originally shipped, but will be added shortly. Doug says they could, however, fool the computer into returning the stock number (which is really a checksum). Simply reloading the stock calibration in a K-Pro modified ECU will NOT return the original CVN number. For that, the K-Pro-modified ECU would have to be completely reset to stock.
Q&A at the end of the seminar:
How long does it take to tune a K-Pro system?
A vehicle that is fairly close to stock, not too long, but as soon as you try to be very precise it can take a day or more, and even more for turbo vehicles. Compared to OBD-I it takes at least twice as long.
At what point should one go from the Hondata reflash to the K-Pro?
Doug seems to think primarily when you get into more serious mods.
Are there plans for a G-Sensor like the one available for the s200?
Not a high priority.
Will the K-Pro become available for other engines?
First the Civic Si and the Euro Civic R, then possibly the US RSX base.
They fit a JRSC to a base! Cables on throttle body are reversed on base. They turned the whole thing around. Sounds like it’s just a theoretical project.
Will Hondata do something for the Honda S2000?
Problem is that the S2000 ECU is non-programmable. So they’d have to replace the ECU. Also, the S2000 sensors and pickups are very different.
Does it make sense to use peak&hold injectors:
Doug says saturated injectors fit much smoother into standard engines. Peak & holds require extra drivers and can be made to work, but it takes quite a bit of extra work.
What’s that big black chip on the upper left of the ECU?
That controls the wideband oxygen sensor. It’s almost its own computer. Doug says it took them almost a year to figure out what it was.
March 13, 2004, Torrance, CA
Notes by Conrad H. Blickenstorfer ([email protected])
On Saturday, March 13, 2004, Hondata held a tuning seminar at the Torrance Hilton in Los Angeles. This was a free one day seminar meant primarily for existing and prospective Hondata dealers, but also open to enthusiasts and others as long as space permitted. Almost 40 people were present in the morning, fewer in the afternoon.
The seminar covered general Honda tuning concepts and the use of the Hondata s200 system in the morning, and an introduction to the new Hondata K-Pro system in the afternoon. The seminar was presented by Doug MacMillan who, together with his partner Derek Stevens, owns Hondata. Doug was assisted throughout the presentation by Matt of the Hondata staff.
Both MacMillan and Stevens are New Zealanders who relocated to the United States about four years ago to start Hondata. MacMillan has racing experience and still holds the New Zealand land speed record in a 1.6 liter class that he set with a B16 CRX. Now having small children, MacMillan has pretty much given up racing and is concentrating on the tuning of Honda ECUs. His partner Stevens holds a degree in commerce and is the primary author of the Hondata ECU software. Matt is a tech support person who moved from Arizona and has substantial tuning knowledge, both hands on and with the Hondata software. Never having seen MacMillan (Hondata’s avatar on ClubRSX shows a Martian from the movie “Mars Attacks!”) I didn’t know what to expect. Turns out MacMillan is an eloquent man with a dry sense of humor, and much more reminiscent of a computer technologist than of a road racer.
Seminar participants received a CD-ROM that contained the afternoon (but not the morning) presentation in pdf format, a demo version of the s200 ROM Editor, a working version of the s200 datalogger, a working version of the new K-Series ECU Manager, and a few video clips that show the working of VTEC and such.
What follows is my recollection of Doug’s presentation:
Goals of tuning:
- The overall goal should be having educated customers: they should know what to expect and not have unrealistic expectations
- Reliability is important: what is safe and what isn’t, depending on the project
- Repeatability (know all the factors that affect it; synthetic gear oil, for example, takes longer to warm up, water temp, air temp, etc.)
- Maximum power is really only “marketing power.” A complete tuning package also includes easy starting, steady idling and good drivability.
- Road tuning is just as important as dyno tuning; the dyno only tells part of the story and real world conditions are very different.
- Part throttle is very hard to tune (and also to sell as it takes much longer!)
- Tuning for economy/emissions. It IS possible to have BOTH power AND economy. Same for emissions.
Some education:
- A road car is at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) only 0.1% of the time and part throttle 99.9% of the time.
- Part throttle tuning takes much longer (and costs a lot more), but done right makes for much better responsiveness and fuel economy. Some of the replacement chips out there only go for WOT top power. Some of those chips are very specialized, offer no ignition control, and generate error codes. Simply switching those codes off is not a good thing. Doug said 80% of the non-Mugen chips are really just copies of Mugen chips.
- Psychology of VTEC: The VTEC “kick” really shouldn’t be there if the engine is well tuned. Then the curve should be totally smooth. Interestingly, some people think the car with the VTEC “kick” has more power when, in fact, it has less.
Does more peak power always mean faster?
No! Acceleration depends on the power under the dyno curve. Higher peak power can actually generate less acceleration than a car with less peak power. Torque matters! More power between 3,000 and 6,000 is extremely important. The only time when that may be different and peak power becomes an issue is in drag racing.
Reliability:
- Doug asked how high do people rev? Some said as high as 10,500. Doug said that this is hardly ever needed as power drops off with most cams well below that. Hondata usually sets the rev limit about 500 rpm past the power peak. That way when you shift you drop back to a good high rev point, but one with lots of power left. How high should you rev? That depends on the strength of the rods and pistons. And valve bounce can damage pistons.
- Running rich/lean? Proper rich/lean tuning is extremely important. Interesting point brought up by Matt: The Mugen thermostat and similar do not let engine ever warm up all the way so that tuning gets because the engine keeps adding fuel.
- Ignition advance knock: If the spark is fired too soon, the piston is still coming up and the flame front bops into the piston. That can mean broken rods, worn bearings, or blown head gaskets. Sacrificing the last five or ten hp in a highly tuned engine will greatly increase longevity.
- Knock: one problem is that knock sensor reporting to the computer is not very good and the computer isn’t well equipped to accommodate. The knock sensor is actually a microphone; you can put headphones on and hear the knocking and which cylinder knocks.
- Altitude: table columns 1-10 must be tuned for higher altitude operation (Doug went through that quickly)
- Fuel pressure: Some people think higher fuel pressure is better. That is not always so. Low pressure means cooler fuel, pump and injectors. Some pumps actually move lower volume at higher pressure. Basically, higher fuel pressure does not appear what Hondata recommends. 50-60 psi is the max Hondata recommends.
Dyno repeatability
- Water temperature should be 180-195 degrees, and use datalogging
- Gearbox must be warmed up, especially with synthetic oil
- Keep intake temperature consistent
- A plug here for the Hondata intake gasket (now available for makes other than just Hondas). Intake manifold is aluminum and heats up when it really should be cool. The intake manifold is NOT a heat sink and the gasket does NOT hurt. Bypassing the heating on the throttle body (which some people do) amounts to perhaps 20% of the lowered temperature and the Hondata intake gasket 80%.
- Turn off the knock sensor and switch to open loop.
Tuning for torque
- Rough rule: 10% fuel change = 1 Air/Fuel point
- At peak torque engine needs most fuel and is least sensitive (to what?)
- The fuel curve is shaped very much like the torque curve
- After the torque peak, remove fuel
- For extended high speed running (endurance, etc.) run richer
- 2D curves must be smooth over the rpm range (lines in the graph should be parallel and have no sharp drops and rises). Load lines should never cross each other
Tuning for max power
- The top one or two rows matter most (rightmost one or two columns in the table?)
- Use the 2d view extensively to get it right
Stock Honda fuel map
- They are loaded in the software and you can pull them up
- They are nice and smooth and parallel
Optimize starting and idling
- Unplug idle control valve and adjust screw
- Cranking ignition values are in the first two rows, columns 8-10 in the table. Note that ignition is actually retarded there
- Idling control opens or closes the IAC
- For bigger injectors increase the target idle
- Advance ignition and lean via emulator
- Best idle around 830
Road tuning
- Dyno is different from road and different dynos load the engine differently
- Underhood airflow is different between dyno and road tuning
- WOT air/fuel seems richer on a dyno than on the road
- G sensor can measure horsepower during road tuning
Knock
- The knock sensor is a tuned microphone. You can build one from a speaker amp ($30).
- A knock processor will retard ignition by 12 degrees when it detects a knock, then adds 1 degree per second until it bumps into knocking again
- Knock sounds like a sharp ticking
Economy and emissions
- Add more ignition advance in part throttle
- Hint: add 5 degree timing around 1200-3500
- Don’t forget to switch back to closed loop after tuning!
- Doug mentioned examples of cars that failed to pass with the stock ECU but passed without problems with Hondata
- Doug feels that a well tuned OBD-1 computer does better than a OBD-II computer
Injectors
- Use saturated injectors (12 ohms) like the new 440 and 550s from RC Engineering
- 550 cc injectors at 50psi fuel pressure can handle approximately 320-350 whp
- The Honda stock fuel pump is good for 250-290 whp
Tuning procedure
- Take your Helms service manual
- Set ignition timing to stock
- Set VTEC high (7000) and tune WOT and part throttle
- Set VTEC low (2000) and repeat WOT and part throttle
- Set the VTEC crossover RPM
- (Note: this was covered much too quickly)
What does Datalogging do?
- Measures intake system efficiency with MAP
- Shows short and long term fuel trim (computer adjusts short term according to Oxygen sensor readings to a long term fuel trim value over a period of time, days, weeks) Watch for bad Oxygen sensors! Resetting the ECU sets the long term fuel trim back to zero.
- Shows intake air temperature compared to outside
- Shows injector duty cycle (should be under 90%). 100% means they’re always open.
- Monitor TW > 180 and TA = consistent
- Set launch RPM and ECU type
Tuning with A/F ratio
General hints:
- Use a COLD AIR INTAKE! Hondata tested the Comptech Icebox. It has better flow and is better than the stock airbox, but does not perform as well as a CAI.
- Use the Hondata heatshield gasket
- Insulate/wrap your intake
- A CAI can provide an additional 0.3-0.7 psi more boost underhood. Hot air costs boost pressure.
- The JRSC needs very little timing retard vs. stock
- Turbo retard 18-20 degrees from 12 psi up
- (Note: this was covered very quickly)
Doug mentioned Erick’s Racing 9.99 second ¼-mile Civic that has 300+ wheel hp on a 2.2 liter engine with the stock ignition and 10,500 rpm limit.
Demo of the Hondata s200 ROM Editor
Note: Hondata’s s200 system does not pertain to the RSX. It is for older Honda engines. However, using the s200 is fairly similar to using the new K-Series ECU Manager software, and a lot of the principles and settings discussed by Doug apply to the K-Series as well.
The Hondata ROM Editor lets you manipulate the fuel and ignition tables built into a Honda ECU. You can then upload a new or modified calibration into the ECU.
Data can be viewed either as a table, a 2D graph or a 3D graph. The rows in those tables represent engine rpm and columns represent engine load measured in pressure. Honda ECUs have separate ignition and fuel tables (and the K-Series also has cam angle tables) for the low and the high speed cams. The ROM Editor therefore lets you toggle between low and high speed cam tables. Note that low cam and high cam maps have different resolution and scaling. Even within a cam table, rpm differences between rows in the table are not always the same. The overall idea is to tweak values in cells or “tuning positions.”
You start by loading a map for a particular car. Start with one that has the most similar components as the motor you use. Some stock maps have settings for a particular feature, like an intake manifold with specific characteristics.
How do you edit data points in the table? You can change individual values. Or you can change a bunch of values all at once. Or you can select a bunch of points and then use an “interpolate points” feature. That comes in handy when a curve is rough and needs to be smoothed out. Or you can select all points of the table and advance everything by a couple of degrees and see what it does on the dyno.
Once all the desired changes are made the modified maps can be saved under a descriptive name and uploaded into the ECU.
Doug then demonstrated the injector sizing calculator. They allow you to set larger injector size, different fuel pressure and then scale the tables accordingly. He said that the K-Series runs a wide-band oxygen sensor which allows for more accurate recording.
Settings for forced induction and nitrous
Supercharged cars love low VTEC points, but that is not always desirable for daily driving, so the ROM Editor allows you to set the VTEC point so that it comes on, but ONLY at certain amount of boost (“boost-activated VTEC”). Else, the VTEC would come off and on and off and on during part throttle driving, which is very bad for economy. Doug said Hondata can set dry nitrous systems on and off automatically, depending on certain conditions. He said that nitrous is very efficient. You can get far more power from 440 injectors with nitrous than from a supercharger. Or you can use nitrous to cool the intake charge or to reduce turbo lag. Or set it so that it won’t spray under certain speeds or above certain revs.
Under Options you can turn off certain sensors which certain ECUs may not have. Under Notes you can describe what you did/changed and other particulars about a chip.
Datalogging and target lambda
Target Lambda is the air/fuel ratio you want to achieve using a wideband meter wired into the oxygen sensor. You datalog, then load the run and analyze. If it shows too rich or too lean in areas, you select those and then add or subtract fuel via a dialog box. One view shows duty cycle on selected injectors in percent. That way you can see if your injectors are adequate. Note: Stock oxygen sensors cannot be used for accurate datalogging! Also note that K-Series Oxygen sensor measures current not voltage and A/F gauge will NOT work on it, and even mess things up.
Other interesting facts:
- Interesting: air scoops and ram air should be low on car as swoopy hood and top increases air speed and thus lowers pressure, just as on an airplane wing. For best ram charging the scoop should be underneath.
- A G-Sensor can be added inside the s200 box for acceleration figures.
- MAP sensor can show you how your air intake is doing. If there is too much of a vacuum, you need more air (à CAI).
- One of the obvious pros in the audience referred to the “infamous hesitation issue” – That was Honda code relating to emission controls. Revision 37 of ROM fixed it. Apparently you can download new ROM revs from Hondata’s website
- Note that the rev limiter does NOT keep engine from over-revving during a misshift.
- Starting/cranking is in upper right part of the data table. Do not have much advance there, perhaps even zero or less.
- Honda ignition timing is very conservative to accommodate for very poor fuel.
Hondata uses the PLX wideband sensor (www.plxdevices.com) or the more expensive XJL (FJL?) for datalogging and road tuning.
Afternoon session: the Hondata K-Pro
The Hondata K-Pro system consists of an added circuit board to the standard ECU, the K-Series ECU Manager software, and a number of preconfigured calibration maps. How is it different from the Hondata reflash? The reflash is a one-shot recalibration of the ECU whereas the K-Pro is programmable and can recalibrate the ECU again and again. Whereas the Hondata initially tuned their static ECU reflashes for what was available at the time, i.e. basic header, AEM CAI, etc., the K-Pro, written by Derek Stevens, can be used for tuning and finetuning any supported vehicle with all sorts of add-ons. The initial product is for the US K-Series Type-S, but Hondata is also working on a K-Pro for the Civic Si and for European market Civic Type Rs.
Unlike the s200 system, K-Pro does programming and datalogging all in one. It has integrated wideband to take advantage of the Type-S’s wideband sensor. Doug feels the K-Pro is the best engine computer programming system, period. Uploading is via USB port that gets installed in the stock ECU in addition to a daughterboard that contains the interface to the Honda ECU. You can even upload a new map into the ECU while the car is running. It burbles a bit, then resumes.
What did Hondata find as they analyzed the RSX Type-S ECU?
- Runs very rich at high rpm
- Has conservative ignition timing, tuned for low emission at high mileage.
- VERY sensitive to the knock sensor (could explain dyno power differences in stock Type-S engines
- Once tuned, more power, same or better emission, better economy.
Basics: What makes power?
- The motor is really an air pump
- Put in as much air as possible
- Add proper fuel and ignite it at right time
- Make sure exhaust doesn’t restrict
VTEC = Variable Timing Electronic Control
VTC = Variable Timing Control
- 50 degree movement, constantly changing
- Settings for power and emissions.
- Cam angle can swing 50 degrees.
- There are six maps for 0, 10. 20. 30, 40, 50 degrees.
- VTC Control valve and actuator engage and disengage VTEC.
- Advance and retard chambers inside the actuator wheel moves parts inside (see video clip on CD)
K-Series ECU Manager software: frequently check for updates as there’s one every few days.
The initial download of the ECU software from a car takes 30 seconds or so and the car can’t run while doing it. Uploads of calibrations, however, only takes a few seconds and can be done while running. Here Doug mentioned that the Honda ECU has a backup processor that allows you to limp home even if the main processor fails (maybe the backup takes over while the new calibration is loaded?)
Doug emphasized that the cam angle is the most important aspect of tuning the K-Series engine. About 2500 dyno runs form the basics of the current software and maps.
The K-Series ECU Manager software has datalogging built-in. ROM Editor and Datalogger are combined here, but for now the software only has graphs and tables, and not the dials and other representations found in the s200 software.
Doug then went through some of the settings of the software. For example,
- Multiplexer off – temp gauge and some others will not display.
- Immobilizer can be turned off (not recommended)
- Fuel trim: #3 cylinder typically runs a bit hotter so you can add fuel
- For tuning, turn off closed loop because you want to be in open loop.
- Knock: you can set it so that MIL light flashes whenever it knocks. “K Count” is in the Sensors list and shows how often computer felt the engine knocked. Knock is a stored value, long-term. You can go see where the knocks occur and then see if the AF ratio is okay. If so, then check ignition advance. There can be dozens or hundreds of knock counts in a second (zoom in to see closely).
While the variable cam timing is terrific for tuning, having a constantly moving cam also means that it takes a longer time to tune all this. Doug explained that when tuning a car and developing the optimal calibrations, they actually do dynos at each angle (I think) then see where the cam likes to be for best power at each rpm.
For turbo VTEC tuning:
- there is greater exhaust backpressure; that means cam angles/overlap must be reduced to accommodate
- retarding cam can mean picking up 40 horsepower at high RPM.
- In general, with high backpressure you should retard the cam angles and raise the VTEC point, with low backpressure the opposite
Proper tuning at the VTEC point
Getting cam angle at VTEC point right is very important and one of the most difficult tuning tasks. If not done right, the curve is bumpy and performance suffers.
- Cam takes 0.1 seconds to rotate 10 degrees, so you have to start rotating the cam angle before VTEC so that the low cam and high cam angles are not far apart at the VTEC Point
- Done right, the VTEC switch noise is greatly reduced
- It’s better to sacrifice a bit of power before VTEC to gain it after
- Hardest to do on turbo motors!
Doug briefly talked about extreme cams. There are no really wild cams for the K-Series yet, but there are experimental ones that Hondata checked out. Add lots of timing at low end for impressive torque gains, raise idle speed, reduce overlap in part throttle.
Supercharged engines:
- Tuning is really similar to NA larger motor.
- It loves overlap.
- Cam angle affects boost in manifold
- Low cam VTC 45-50 degrees
- High cam VTC 50 degrees and then down to 40 from 7000 rpm on up
- The higher the RPM, the higher the boost. (Greddy turbo actually got less boost at higher RPM)
- However, more boost does not necessarily mean more power
- Street JRSC had 212-220 whp, went up to around 250 with Hondata.
Example of Greddy turbo K-Pro tuning on a Type-S showed 50 hp gain over simple e-manage “patches.”
Nitrous:
Doug said the use of nitrous was much safer with the K-Pro. He recommended a dry system. Wet nitrous system not a very happy match with Type S because at redline Type S cuts off fuel whereas nitrous continues, instantly leaning things to catastrophic levels. Nitrous works quite well with boosted engines. They get higher boost (by about 0.5 psi) and the supercharger acts as a nitrous mixer. Hondata tried a JRSC with 7 PSI and N2O. The nitrous dry system added boost but they found the belt slipping at high RPM (Doug runs DC twin canister exhaust and 7psi on his car). Ignition should be retarded, the system needs larger injectors, and nitrous should be shot off before redline. With turbo engines, nitrous can reduce turbo lag by spooling up the turbine more quickly.
Tuning for intakes:
Through the presentation Doug often came back to recommending cold air intakes. For tuning purposes it is important to know the resonance point of a CAI. The AEM CAI has resonance point of 5200, the short ram AEM V2 at about 5900. There is a torque peak and often lean spot at the resonance point. You can tune for different intakes. Doug mentioned that pressurized intakes can really make a difference. Build a box around it to force air into it.
Intake manifolds:
Doug showed some dyno runs of stock Type-S versus the Integra Type R intake manifold which has slightly fatter runners, and so should do better. However, the horsepower difference is primarily at the high end.
Fuel cooling and such:
Injector positioning: They should be at the top of the runner. This would be bad for emissions but good for power. Doug also spoke of the power benefits of cooling fuel. 20 degree Celsius difference means 1% more power. A company called designengineering.com specializes on all sorts of cooling and insulating materials and methods.
A variety of tuning pitfalls:
- Valve spring pressure too high is bad news as there isn’t enough lubrication.
- Cams can be installed incorrectly.
- TPS and MAP sensor can be reversed.
- MAP not relocated in supercharger.
Doug mentioned Alaniztechnologies.com which did interesting work on exhaust flow on Type-S
Effects of various mods:
A stock K20A2 engine makes between 160 and 175 wheel hp. That is quite a big difference in a modern precision engine and it could be because of different sensitivity in knock sensor. Doug went on to show dyno sheets of a variety of mods they added to a stock motor.
Hondata added almost 20 hp on top, AEM CAI another 10, Greddy catback added a bit, ITR cams another 15 hp. Raceheaders from Comptech added yet another 15 up to almost 230. ITR manifold added a bit of high-end. Titanium exhaust and pulleys added a few. Finally they installed a ported big valve head with Toda cams, for a result of almost 250 whp. A Hytech exhaust, 12:1 pistons, cams and intake raised that figure up to 270.
Another project (Hasport/Jackson Racing Civic Type R) replaced the K20A2 bottom with a K24 CRV bottom. This brought 40 pounds extra torque, but power dropped off quicker at the high end. Initial peak power was 210 whp. They added an 8psi JRSC and got torque of over 230 foot-pounds and over 290 whp.
Who uses Hondata?
Honda America Race Team (HART). Erick’s Racing got 9.99s ¼ mile. DC Sport RSX-S Turbo.
Doug said they also have what he called a “Show Car Special” K-Pro. It comes with flashing blue LEDs (which do absolutely nothing but flash) and a clear plastic case for twice the price.
K-Series Bang-for the buck list of mods:
- Intake Gasket
- CAI
- ECU Reflash
- Header/Exhaust
- K-Pro and tuning
- Nitrous and/or boost
- Cams
- K24 bottom end swap
The Calibration Verification Number
There is a Calibration Verification Number (CVN) that in the future may be used to see if an ECU program has been modified. This number is not currently checked even in California. Setting a reflashed ECU back to standard by Hondata sets it back to original. That factory program was not in the K-Pro when it originally shipped, but will be added shortly. Doug says they could, however, fool the computer into returning the stock number (which is really a checksum). Simply reloading the stock calibration in a K-Pro modified ECU will NOT return the original CVN number. For that, the K-Pro-modified ECU would have to be completely reset to stock.
Q&A at the end of the seminar:
How long does it take to tune a K-Pro system?
A vehicle that is fairly close to stock, not too long, but as soon as you try to be very precise it can take a day or more, and even more for turbo vehicles. Compared to OBD-I it takes at least twice as long.
At what point should one go from the Hondata reflash to the K-Pro?
Doug seems to think primarily when you get into more serious mods.
Are there plans for a G-Sensor like the one available for the s200?
Not a high priority.
Will the K-Pro become available for other engines?
First the Civic Si and the Euro Civic R, then possibly the US RSX base.
They fit a JRSC to a base! Cables on throttle body are reversed on base. They turned the whole thing around. Sounds like it’s just a theoretical project.
Will Hondata do something for the Honda S2000?
Problem is that the S2000 ECU is non-programmable. So they’d have to replace the ECU. Also, the S2000 sensors and pickups are very different.
Does it make sense to use peak&hold injectors:
Doug says saturated injectors fit much smoother into standard engines. Peak & holds require extra drivers and can be made to work, but it takes quite a bit of extra work.
What’s that big black chip on the upper left of the ECU?
That controls the wideband oxygen sensor. It’s almost its own computer. Doug says it took them almost a year to figure out what it was.
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