[BlueES1]

I just discovered another quick tip for those of you who are using the K24 intake manifold and fuel rail like I am with the EP3 harness. The plastic cover over the fuel injector wiring on the EP3 harness doesn't clip onto the K24's fuel rail, so I took the cover off of the cut K24 harness and put it on the EP3 harness. It's easy to swap, it just clips on. This isn't necessary, but I personally prefer this setup as it looks cleaner and more OEM instead of looking like I put the wrong harness on the engine. Also, having wiring properly fastened down where possible reduces the chances of damaged wiring or rattles.

 

[LotusElise]

Wouldn't leaving the VTEC solenoid plugged in and running in VTEC basically all the time be problematic? I would think it would be for several reasons such as timing being off and possibly not enough oil pressure to correctly activate real VTEC at such a low RPM or possibly even dropping the oil pressure too much, but I could be wrong.

Oh, maybe we had a misunderstanding. You want do a VTEC killer setup, means to run the high speed lobes all the time?

What about ignition timing? Since my K24 has higher compression than the base model K20, could the ignition timing possibly be advanced enough to be problematic?

A higher compression can cause knock if you mapped it just the same as the lower CR engine. Do you hear any knock or see it in the logs?

 

[BlueES1]

Oh, maybe we had a misunderstanding. You want do a VTEC killer setup, means to run the high speed lobes all the time?

A higher compression can cause knock if you mapped it just the same as the lower CR engine. Do you hear any knock or see it in the logs?

I don't want a VTEC killer setup, I am just going for a stock swap. What I meant when I mentioned running in VTEC all the time is that is basically what I would be doing if I leave the VTEC solenoid plugged in with the base model ECU since that engine has VTEC-E that activates around 2500 RPM while the K24 I have has real VTEC that activates somewhere around 5K RPM. I would think that running it in VTEC at 2500 RPM would be problematic. Am I wrong?

 

[Brotatochip]

You won't be using a tune that turns on VTEC at 2500 RPM though. With a Kpro'd EP3 ECU you would just load a stock K24a2 map or something. You can't use an EP3 tune on a K24.

You can set VTEC to engage much lower than the default ~5-6k. I believe the minimum recommended is around 2100 RPM due to oil pressure, the K-manager software will give you a warning.

 

[BlueES1]

You won't be using a tune that turns on VTEC at 2500 RPM though. With a Kpro'd EP3 ECU you would just load a stock K24a2 map or something. You can't use an EP3 tune on a K24.

You can set VTEC to engage much lower than the default ~5-6k. I believe the minimum recommended is around 2100 RPM due to oil pressure, the K-manager software will give you a warning.

Thank you for the information. The problem is I can not afford a Kpro ECU at the moment because I still need to buy a lot of other parts for the swap, so I will need to use the base K20 ECU that I have until I can afford Kpro. I am not going to beat on it with the K20 ECU, I just need it to run decent so I can drive it while I save up for the Kpro ECU.

 

[Brotatochip]

The K24 requires roughly 20% more fuel because it has 20% more displacement. You'd be taking a huge risk trying to use a K20 tune. At idle, maybe. Anything higher, lean. I didn't realize that was your intention.

 

[KBuilt]

If you could find a Prc type r ecu that would be closer to the fuel requirements or being able to adjust to the targets. Otherwise it may be in the best interest of the engine to wait until you get a Kpro. I got mine in a base model ecu new v4 from hamotorsports for 800 shipped. They are pricey, but once you have it you can do anything with your engine and accommodate.

 

[KBuilt]

They say there’s additional wiring needed to make the base model ecu pick up the speed signal but it can all be done on the software side.

 

[BlueES1]

They say there’s additional wiring needed to make the base model ecu pick up the speed signal but it can all be done on the software side.

Thank you, only problem is that those ECUs are $600+. Also, if those have an immobilizer, I would need to have it flashed before I could use it, adding even more cost. Since this car is my daily driver I would like to have an immobilizer anyways so I don't have to worry as much about it getting stolen. If I get an immobilizer equipped Kpro compatible ECU and have the immobilizer flashed so it will run and then I get the Kpro board installed in it, do I have to have the immobilizer reflashed? Also, if I get a JDM ECU with no immobilizer, can I still enable the immobilizer in Kpro? Thank you very much in advance!

 

[KBuilt]

Thank you, only problem is that those ECUs are $600+. Also, if those have an immobilizer, I would need to have it flashed before I could use it, adding even more cost. Since this car is my daily driver I would like to have an immobilizer anyways so I don't have to worry as much about it getting stolen. If I get an immobilizer equipped Kpro compatible ECU and have the immobilizer flashed so it will run and then I get the Kpro board installed in it, do I have to have the immobilizer reflashed? Also, if I get a JDM ECU with no immobilizer, can I still enable the immobilizer in Kpro? Thank you very much in advance!

I forget you have an 01+ chassis , I have the immobilizer disabled in kpro. I’m sure there are rsx owners that have kpro and keep it enabled , but the purpose of using the Jdm ecu is that it doesn’t have an immobilizer and you can use it in swap applications without having to install kpro. I will have to look into that further.

 

[KBuilt]

.

 

[KBuilt]

Dude my bad. I thought this was on my build thread.

 

[BlueES1]

Dude my bad. I thought this was on my build thread.

It's all good, I appreciate your help!

 

[BlueES1]

Does anyone have a pinout for the 04-05 Civic ES1 C101 connector? I need it to repin the EP3 harness. The only diagram I can find is for the is the 01-03 Civic, which is different. Thanks

 

[KBuilt]

This may help I’m not sure.

DIY: EM2 - D17 to K20 wiring swap and general info - Honda Civic Forum

Engine Swaps - DIY: EM2 - D17 to K20 wiring swap and general info - COURTESY OF Dark2k1 http://www.xproductionz.com/7thgen/EM2toK20.jpg According to this it looks like these are the things you have to do.. take clip c101 from the k20 wireharness and move it as follows move clip 1 into 4 move...

www.civicforums.com

 

[KBuilt]

Are you trying to go around getting a conversion harness, or do they not make one for your chassis ?

 

[BlueES1]

This may help I’m not sure.

DIY: EM2 - D17 to K20 wiring swap and general info - Honda Civic Forum

Engine Swaps - DIY: EM2 - D17 to K20 wiring swap and general info - COURTESY OF Dark2k1 http://www.xproductionz.com/7thgen/EM2toK20.jpg According to this it looks like these are the things you have to do.. take clip c101 from the k20 wireharness and move it as follows move clip 1 into 4 move...

www.civicforums.com

Thank you. I saw that, but I would prefer an actual pinout so I can make sure I am getting this right since there are a couple variations of these wiring harnesses with different pinouts. K Tuned does make a conversion harness for these cars, but in my opinion $200 is way too much for a few 4 inch long pieces of wire and a relay, so I am going to repin the connector so it matches and wire the o2 sensor myself.

The nice thing about the 7th gens is since they are built on the same platform as the cars that came with the K series like the Civic EP3, Honda CRV, and Acura RSX, they are probably the easiest Civics to K swap. The only aftermarket part that is really required is a mount kit, and even that isn't too hard to get around if someone gets the engine mount points off of an RSX and welds them onto their Civic chassis, someone has done that before and used all OEM parts.

 

[Brotatochip]

The swap harnesses I've seen say they work with all '01-'05 Civics. You should be able to use the info in the thread @KBuilt posted or just use the pinout for an '01 Civic.

Before changing anything you can compare the pinout to your harness to verify they are the same.

 

[BlueES1]

The swap harnesses I've seen say they work with all '01-'05 Civics. You should be able to use the info in the thread @KBuilt posted or just use the pinout for an '01 Civic.

Before changing anything you can compare the pinout to your harness to verify they are the same.

I saw that too but the pinout I found didn't match mine. If I remember correctly I think mine had some extra wires. Perhaps the wires that were different were for things the K24 doesn't need like the automatic transmission or stock o2 sensors, I will take another look later and report back.
This is a diagram I found from a guy who K swapped his 02 EM2 5 speed. The K20 diagram seems to match my EP3 harness, but the Civic diagram doesn't match (at least completely), which didn't give me much confidence that any of it would be correct.

 

[BlueES1]

I have another electrical question. Earlier today I went to the junkyard to get some parts for the swap and when I was getting a clutch pedal assembly, I noticed that it has 2 switches on it. One detects when it is fully pushed down and the other detects when it is fully released. Do one or both of those switches need to be connected for it do drive correctly or are they just to make sure that it won't crank without the clutch pushed down? Not sure if these ECUs use clutch position for something. Thanks again in advance!