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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm upgrading to Hawk HP+ pads on the front (incidentally TSX size, also to CR-V calipers and MINI rotors, but that's a different story) and want to add a bit more brake in the rear while I'm in there. My car is an EG with an NA K20, so she's sitting at around 2100lb.

For the rear, not wanting to overthink/overdo things I'm considering the setup that uses:
  • EP3/RSX rear caliper carriers
  • EP3/RSX rear rotors
  • SI/Integra rear calipers (already on)
  • Pads from either setup

This is covered in quite a bit of detail in these couple threads:
How to put X brakes on your car
BrakeExpert's Brake Chart Thread - Civic Brake Upgrades for EF, EG, EK and Integras - Honda-Tech - Honda Forum Discussion
Civic EG View topic - DIY Stage two 92-95 civic rear brake upgrade

The consensus I see is that they "fit" and people consider it an "upgrade" but, after a lot of searching, but most accounts I've found seem to have someone put the setup on and the person falls off the face of the earth - tough to tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but people tend to complain when bad :).

My main consideration points are:
  • I have to change brake fluid often enough that I won't consider the upside down RSX/EP3 calipers on this platform. Having to pull the calipers to bleed is a non-starter.
  • The setup with my existing pad size seems like straight upgrade, more brake torque and more thermal mass, and the un-swept area won't bug me.
  • If the larger pad works without uneven wear, and is meaningfully better, I'd want that. I see chatter that the combination of the RSX pad being 1mm thicker than the teg pad, and the rotor also being 1mm thicker than the teg rotor, things need to be trimmed to fit - which is a deal breaker if true.
  • Whatever I do must be cheap, and parts should be readily available locally.
This all suggests that I should just get the EP3 rotors/carriers and call it a day. Having to thin out pads to force them to fit is something I had to deal with on another car, and I don't wanna ever do that again. I would like a touch more rear brake, though, ideally on the cheap.

--Matt

With the RSX/EP3 pad it comes out like this (dark pic, unfortunately):
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I thought the rear rsx calipers were bolt on after you swap ebrake cables and brackets. And bleeders are the correct orientation.
Couldn't find any case where anyone successfully did such a thing. The BrakeExpert thread says you swap the Integra e-brake lever to the EP3/RSX calipers, but everything I've come across suggests that they're still upside down because swapping brackets only fixes length and not orientation.

The EP3/RSX rear caliper have a 3 or 4 mm larger piston, too, which might be problematic for bias (or helpful, I guess, not found much substantive info there).

Since the problem with the 2 is that the hose/cable are swapped, and I've not found evidence of anyone successfully surmounting that, it must not be straightforward or possible to do. Given how/where the lower control arm bolts to the trailing arm, I don't see how you could get the e-brake cable in down below.

The EP3 right caliper has everything oriented one way (cable goes down below):
Font Gas Auto part Machine Metal


Integra right caliper has it the other (cable goes over the top):
Camera accessory Auto part Machine Font Optical instrument


I've got aftermarket cables, meant to fit a variety of vehicles, so I've got a bit of extra cable to play with but don't see evidence that the swapped placement is a solved problem and can't see how it could be done.

--Matt
 

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For a simpler setup and if you can source 97-01 integra type-r rear calipers (rather rare, but rockauto supposedly has them in stock) and 02-03 EP3 rear rotors (4x100 10.2" rotors), this will be a 100% plug n play setup if you have existing 4x100 rear disc brakes on already. And your existing e-brake lines will be 100% compatible with the rear ITR calipers.

(edit)
just checked rockauto, jump on these!
Rear right:
Rear left:

I've been running this setup on my K-EG for a long time now along with an Integra 1" master cylinder w/matching booster + DA integra 4040 prop valve. Fronts are 4x100 re-drilled prelude vtec rotors (11.1") with spoon twin block calipers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thank you! Yep, another person on honda-tech called out the same. Apparently the specs of the ITR calipers are identical to the EP3, just without the swapped orientation.

After core charges, that approximately triples the cost of the upgrade...and also likely needs an even bigger MC than I have (already upgraded to 15/16"). That, coupled with the general rarity of the calipers, has me wanting to stick with the more within reach setup involving existing calipers and pads - keeping me in "you can get replacements at any AutoZone any time" status.

--Matt
 

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Thank you! Yep, another person on honda-tech called out the same. Apparently the specs of the ITR calipers are identical to the EP3, just without the swapped orientation.

After core charges, that approximately triples the cost of the upgrade...and also likely needs an even bigger MC than I have (already upgraded to 15/16"). That, coupled with the general rarity of the calipers, has me wanting to stick with the more within reach setup involving existing calipers and pads - keeping me in "you can get replacements at any AutoZone any time" status.

--Matt

Well on the contrary, you would not have a problem finding rear pads for ITR rear calipers as they use the same pad shape as RSX/EP3 and several other common Honda/Acura applications (I assume you figured this out).

You'll be perfectly fine with a 15/16" mc/booster setup + ITR or DC5/EP3 rear caliper setup. No need to worry about that. As long as you're not on the wimpy stock civic 7/8"mc+booster.

There is no trimming of pad required either (fronts or rear) with the brake setup you'd like to perform. FYI, TSX front pads specifically, will have a little overhang past the cooper rotor since its an 11" rotor and not 11.2" rotor like factory ITR/Prelude VTEC rotors are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Well on the contrary, you would not have a problem finding rear pads for ITR rear calipers as they use the same pad shape as RSX/EP3 and several other common Honda/Acura applications (I assume you figured this out).

You'll be perfectly fine with a 15/16" mc/booster setup + ITR or DC5/EP3 rear caliper setup. No need to worry about that. As long as you're not on the wimpy stock civic 7/8"mc+booster.

There is no trimming of pad required either (fronts or rear) with the brake setup you'd like to perform. FYI, TSX front pads specifically, will have a little overhang past the cooper rotor since its an 11" rotor and not 11.2" rotor like factory ITR/Prelude VTEC rotors are.
I definitely acknowledge all you said and, who knows, may eventually end up with that.

My largest concerns with the ITR rears are availability and price. If I need a replacement caliper suddenly, I'm off the road for a week (maybe more, since availability is apparently unpredictable) while it comes. With regular Integra calipers, I can grab one down the street at any time. They're also about $100 a piece, after core costs to get the initial set - turning my (hopefully) sub-$100 upgrade to a >$300 upgrade.

As far as I see/read, the TSX pads are the fix the overhang issue. The ITR/CR-V pads hang over, but the TSX ones are less tall: DIY: The No BS Bolt on Big brakes for RS/GS/LS/GSR

I'm not in any rush to have the best setup available, or to go broke along the way. This car is a project, and making incremental upgrades on cars has always provided me with a safer and more predictable experience than big bang upgrades. Odds are, I won't actually want/need anything more. If I do, it'll probably be further down the road and hopefully in response to a subsequent front brake upgrade.

If I find that I'm still not happy with the rear brakes after just upgrading the rotor/carrier, all good. It'll probably be a lower item on the list than it is until then, and an easier to swallow ~$200 project which can be sorted out some other day. It's a 1994 Civic, post-ricer setup, so there are many more fish remaining to be fried yet.

--Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ran out of time to knock out the rear stuff today, but I can confirm that the TSX pads over the 280mm MINI rotors on the 23T CR-V/ITR/etc. caliper/carrier setup are a perfect fit.

Automotive lighting Drum Automotive tire Carbon Electric blue


Not sure why Hawk doesn't provide backing plates with those pads, but I am annoyed that I had to get the Honda pack since they're apparently not common enough to be widely available in generic form.

--Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well, I guess everyone else who did this didn't just restore some heat shields last year. Didn't see any mention of that, but some "modification" is needed there. Unfortunately, even my restoration work got dinged so they're not perfect anymore 😂

Automotive tire Automotive lighting Crankset Motor vehicle Vehicle brake


After all that I learned that the height difference in the pad is actually twofold. It needs to be taller to reach the caliper properly too, not just to reach further down the pad.

At the end of all that, I didn't have the EP3 clips and couldn't finish so I rolled back to my Integra brakes. Have another track day on the 13th, and won't have time to get those and knock it out before then.

The TSX size Hawks up front work great, though! I had to ditch the anti rattle clip that sits above the pad because it was dragging on the outer edge of the rotor. Looks like everyone else did too, and there appears to be no obvious ill effect.

Automotive tire Automotive lighting Automotive design Motor vehicle Alloy wheel


--Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
RockAuto has the reman ITR rears pretty cheap now, one side is only $45 with no core charge since it's a closeout for one of their vendors. I went ahead and ordered those since I already have carriers anyways. Hopefully some more rear bias from bigger pistons back there will help with the poor modulation I've noticed with the front brake setup I have, and the 15/16 MC is big enough. 🤞
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Wa waa, got everything bolted up and my stoptech brake lines have too tight of a bend to make it to the banjo bolt on this style of caliper. Guess I need new lines again. 😞

Stoptech's listing claims they fit the Type-R setup, but they definitely don't clear the notch in the caliper where the elbow has to fit because the collar is too big and too close. Looking at the various hoses on Rock Auto, the Type R ones definitely have a longer elbow than the GSR ones. Looking at various pics of the calipers, it seems like some have a deeper notch like mine and some don't, but the ITR-specific lines seem to have a longer bend.

Ordered some Russell lines spec'd specifically for the ITR only. 🤞 Hopefully they fit fine. I spent like 7-8 hours on prepping and painting these, so they need to work. After staring at all the various "remanufactured" calipers for this model of car I see that some are actually remanufactured Nissin and others are one of two non-Nissin designs which I assume are actually new (one variant with Lucas cast into the top and the other with just numbers and r/l). These ones fall in the latter category, and I'm assuming this "change" is the sort of thing you sometimes see on "new" parts which avoids counterfeit claim problems.

The Nissin variants look like this (no obstruction past the "groove"):
Automotive tire Rim Circle Auto part Automotive wheel system


Both other variants look like this (flat surface for a while past the groove):
Personal protective equipment Electric blue Font Circle Auto part


The LS/GSR hoses have a short bend like mine which might only fit the former:
Tool Font Circle Metal Fashion accessory



The Type-R specific ones look like they'd fit either easily:
Wood Household hardware Gas Circle Metal



--Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Man, this is a big old mess. I contacted all the manufacturers of braided lines I could and they all have a bend 1/4-1/2" from the banjo. This dumb lip is 1/2 all by itself beyond the ridges that bite into the crush washer.

At this point, I wouldn't recommend anyone buy anything but Nissin calipers. I'm still waiting on word back from RockAuto on how/why these aren't actually remans. 🤔. They definitely appear to be new parts from some other casting, or "close cross reference" parts from some other car. The Isuzu cross references for the front are close enough to work, but these rears are a mess.

I don't want to get the rubber lines with the big straight before the bend, but machining down that lip seems like the only other obvious option. 🥵
 

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Man, that much trouble and I'd be switching over to a -03 an hose and fittings. That's so frustrating to hear. I think I have or at least had a set of Russell type r spec hoses I'll check tonight and see
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I know, right? I had to slightly modify my original e-brake cable brackets to fit these calipers so I'm in for a new set if I can't make them work.

I'll have a set of Russell here in a day or two to check out, but it doesn't sound promising from what I was able to gather so far.

--Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Hrpmh, yeah, those have the same troubles as the others. I was able to pick up some garish red power stop ones locally and they had too tight a bend too.

Oh well, the cost of this project just skyrocketed. I ordered some new caliper assemblies from Acura. After sinking like 7-8 hours into prepping and painting those only to have them not fit they're dead to me.

Rock Auto, as you'd expect, kindly rejected my return. I don't have any interest in gambling with machining that stuff down, nor prepping and painting another set after all that drama. Yay...stuck with calipers I can't use. 🎉

--Matt
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
One thing I am bracing for is some sort of change in the 98+ ITR caliper's parking brake cable. I'm not sure what changed, but apparently 99-01 SI cables fit. I've got aftermarket cables that are also spec'd for that model, so hopefully they will work🤞. Haven't found any specifics on the change apart from the 98+ bracket being attached with a single bolt instead of 2 like prior years.

Edit: This person suggests that the 96 cable setup works on the 98+ calipers, and even has pics. I guess that seems positive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Calipers came and look gorgeous. Unfortunately, the Raybestos pads I ordered have GH stamped on them. Bleh, I don't want to start with that much friction in the back.

Ordered a set of Akebono. Hoping for FF 🤞. Haven't found anyone with pad friction coefficient data on the 536/537 pad shape. Evidently the stock Acura pad is FF. The Spoon pad is too. Wish I would have ordered a set of the OE pads with my calipers, since they're only like $45, but it'll take $20 in shipping and too long to get them at this point and I wanna wrap this up.

With no ABS and an extra inch of rotor worth of brake torque, I wanna take baby steps here. 😆

--Matt
 
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